Fire Mage 7.3

[Guest Hakuna matata]

hi, a question about swift fireblast usage.

- would it be a dps gain to rapidly change a Heating Up to a Hot Streak with a fireblast and then instantly fire a pyroblast? (Instead of the usual casting of a fireball and convert the Heating Up with a fireblast so that you can hit pyroblast simultaneously with it)

- almost same as above, but now after you launch your pyroblast and another pyroblast procs, can you not insta cast it for dps gain? Or still use the usual 'wait for a fireball cast to go along with the pyroblast'?

it seems that my dps jumps higher when I use procs-conversion on the spot (instead of pairing it with a fireball). Feedback would be greatly appreciated

[Guest Domismash]

On 9/28/2016 at 5:14 AM, Blainie said:

Will look into this and check if it is an error.

I meant the one on Noxxic ofcourse, sorry.  seems you have prefered the mark of claw, while they have hidden satyr for neck enchant.
I was also wondering what preferable talents you use for mythic + dungeons? I find myself doing great dps on myth 2/3+ when tank can pull alot and i LB / flamestrike them down, but very poorly on 6/7+, when i  fight a pack of 2 or 3 mobs.
Its rather frustrating only doin burst damage whenever my kindling is up basically, sitting around 120-200 k on trash normally, when i see a DH, hunter or dk whopping out 250+.
Is incanters flow anything to look into? What are you preferable talents.
Thanks

Domi

[Valks 2,375]

17 hours ago, Guest Hakuna matata said:

hi, a question about swift fireblast usage.

- would it be a dps gain to rapidly change a Heating Up to a Hot Streak with a fireblast and then instantly fire a pyroblast? (Instead of the usual casting of a fireball and convert the Heating Up with a fireblast so that you can hit pyroblast simultaneously with it)

- almost same as above, but now after you launch your pyroblast and another pyroblast procs, can you not insta cast it for dps gain? Or still use the usual 'wait for a fireball cast to go along with the pyroblast'?

it seems that my dps jumps higher when I use procs-conversion on the spot (instead of pairing it with a fireball). Feedback would be greatly appreciated

If you're moving and don't have Ice Floes available, yes. If not, casting the Fireball is better. It's due to Ignite damage, as well as the grace period concerning crits and losing Heating Up.

[Valks 2,375]

3 hours ago, Guest Domismash said:

What are you preferable talents.

1. Conflag
2. Shimmer
3. Incanter's Flow
4. Flame On
5. Ice Floes
6. Living Bomb
7. Kindling

Pretty much this.

[sirroo2241 0]

Does   Darckli's Dragonfire Diadem   affect single target rotation at all? or maybe just use it in a situation where you have to move and are out of ice floes ? 

[Guest Hakuna matata]

6 hours ago, Blainie said:

If you're moving and don't have Ice Floes available, yes. If not, casting the Fireball is better. It's due to Ignite damage, as well as the grace period concerning crits and losing Heating Up.

Does a pyroblast > heating up > fireblast > pyroblast account for a higher ignite/overall damage than a fireball > fireblast > pyroblast? From what I understand is that the graceperiod is about 0.5 seconds so in that frame a second pyroblast can be fired when converting a heating up proc from a previous pyroblast. Or is it just an illusion that the damage is higher.

[Guest Adamus]

Couldn't find the answer elsewhere, so, I guess I'll just ask here. What do you think, considering the recent buff to frost and arcane, is fire still the go to spec for both pvp and pve? Please take into account the pvp stats system. Just in case there is difference to anyone, I like bgs and 3v3

[Furty 51]

9 hours ago, sirroo2241 said:

Does   Darckli's Dragonfire Diadem   affect single target rotation at all? or maybe just use it in a situation where you have to move and are out of ice floes ? 

You should now always use Dragon's Breath whenever available. 

40 minutes ago, Guest Adamus said:

Couldn't find the answer elsewhere, so, I guess I'll just ask here. What do you think, considering the recent buff to frost and arcane, is fire still the go to spec for both pvp and pve? Please take into account the pvp stats system. Just in case there is difference to anyone, I like bgs and 3v3

It's still the dominant spec for raiding and Mythic+.

[Sibelius 1]

Two questions.

Can you stack too much crit? Is 51% crit better than 45%, or at 45% should we start getting our mastery up? Basically, is there a point where getting your crit up more isn't beneficial?

And... How much more beneficial is Rune of Power over Incanter's Flow?

[Zadina 923]

At the moment, with the way the gear that drops from EN is, you just need to keep stacking Crit. When Nighthold gets released, we can talk about when's the best time to start working on your other stats.

For the second question, I can't link them atm because I am at work but there are some sims on Altered Time that show dps comparisons with different talents chosen. In Single target, RoP is vastly superior, in aoe it's still better but the difference isn't that great. Bear in mind, though, that these sims have been done in a Patchwerk style of fight afaik, so no movement. That being said, even in fights with movement, you can fit a RoP here and there, and Emerald Nightmare isn't that movement-heavy.

 

[Archimage 98]

There is a few things I was wondering about:

When Combustion still has 1 minute to go, and your Flame On is coming off cooldown:
Do I place a RoP down, consume any Fire blast charges I have left, and use Flame On? or
Continue to fish for Heating Up procs with Fireball, and just use Flame On when I have 0 charges of Fire blast?

With my RNG luck I am unable to fish enough Heating Up procs to use Flame On when it becomes available.

It is suggested outside of the guide to not use your burst spells (Flame On and Phoenix Flames) outside Rune of Power, and not to use Fireball during Rune of Power. Should I use Scorch when I've got rune of power down and no Phoenix Flames?

If Phoenix Reborn has a 10% proc chance every time Ignite deals damage, you should have 1 proc every 10 seconds, doubling the recharge rate of Phoenix Flames charges. You should have 2 charges of Phoenix Flames and Flame On every Rune of Power.

[Guest MagicMan]

Quote

Can you stack too much crit? Is 51% crit better than 45%, or at 45% should we start getting our mastery up? Basically, is there a point where getting your crit up more isn't beneficial?

 

 

Because of math and the way hot streak works more crit gives you a bigger increase to the chance of getting two crits in a row the higher your level of current crit. Said another way (with math) going from 30% crit to 31% crit increases your chance to get two in a row by .61%. Going from 40% to 41% increases your chance to get two in a row by .81%. AFAIK crit % still scales linearly with rating, so the more crit you already have, the better off you are getting even more.

[Cryten 0]

Good Evening.

I am finding alot of 10 iLVL upgrades that according to this guide are less dps then the better stats lower ilvl counterpart. For example froststriken cuffs 840 ilvl 665 int, 263 crit, 444 mastery vs Manawracker bindings 273 729 int, 273 haste and 461 mastery. Im treating mastery as if it has 2 targets and as such is basicly as powerful as crit.

Are you sure that so much weight should be given to crit and mastery that significant ilvl int upgrades are outweighed by the loss of crit and mastery?

[Zadina 923]

Once again, the only completely accurate answer to your question is that you have to sim yourself wearing both pieces :/

As a general rule of thumb, for most armor slots a +10 upgrade with less crit can be better than a lower item level piece with more crit. For example, a 870 chest with 340 crit and 500 any other stat may be better than a 860 chest with 600 crit and 280 any other stat. Note that I put the "can" and "may" in italics; it's a general assumption made by theorycrafters, which is probably correct at most times, but you can only know for sure if you sim yourself.

Until Nighthold comes out, Crit is definitely the most important stat. It's so important that the rest of the stats don't really matter. Yes, Mastery is good for aoe but unless you lose a HUGE amount of mastery by changing x item for y, you won't see a big difference. And to repeat myself for the third time in this post: the best way to find your personal stat weights is sims. :p

[Guest Tugah]

Thanks for all the info you are very helpful. I'm sorry about what's currently going on in the Arcane guide comments though. On topic for Fire, is there any info on Koralon's Burning Touch? For example, Kindling and Conflagration both don't work with Scorch so is it worth not using both of these? Conflagration also ticks from Ignite though so I imagine that is less of a problem.

[Furty 51]

6 hours ago, Guest Tugah said:

Thanks for all the info you are very helpful. I'm sorry about what's currently going on in the Arcane guide comments though. On topic for Fire, is there any info on Koralon's Burning Touch? For example, Kindling and Conflagration both don't work with Scorch so is it worth not using both of these? Conflagration also ticks from Ignite though so I imagine that is less of a problem.

Koralon's sims 3rd best for single target but in practice I'm of the opinion it is the worst damage based legendary. 

[Valks 2,375]

On 10/5/2016 at 6:21 AM, Sibelius said:

Two questions.

Can you stack too much crit? Is 51% crit better than 45%, or at 45% should we start getting our mastery up? Basically, is there a point where getting your crit up more isn't beneficial?

And... How much more beneficial is Rune of Power over Incanter's Flow?

Just to add to what has already been said - Crit is still hugely beneficial at higher levels because of Pyretic Incantation. Consistency in crits is now more valuable than ever.

[Guest Kawhileonrd]

Good guide really appreciated.

I have a question, not within the guide but still a question i cant get the answer of by google.

Is there a "critcap" where crit will not longer be 1.3 and maybe get a less number?

I see lot of toptier mages going for around 9200 critrating (~52% crit).

I also see a lot of toptier mages stacking haste for raiding rather than mastery?

 

Currentyl sitting on 841 ilvl 51% crit, 14% mastery, 15% haste

Thought i give this a chance.

Again awesome guide since i havent been playing since 60-80.

[Valks 2,375]

On 10/7/2016 at 3:45 PM, Guest Kawhileonrd said:

Is there a "critcap" where crit will not longer be 1.3 and maybe get a less number?

Yes, definitely. The stat weight of 1.3 is a general weight across different gear levels. For your specific gear level, it's entirely possible it will be different. The only way to check for this is to sim your own character for weights.

On 10/7/2016 at 3:45 PM, Guest Kawhileonrd said:

I also see a lot of toptier mages stacking haste for raiding rather than mastery?

Are they actively stacking Haste? It's possible that they are just pushing for as much Crit as possible and so the pieces of gear have Crit/Haste on them.

[Guest Stat caps]

Hey, anyone got idea how much crit and mastery is optimal?

[Valks 2,375]

4 hours ago, Guest Stat caps said:

Hey, anyone got idea how much crit and mastery is optimal?

There is no figure that is optimal which I can give you. You just want as much as possible of both. Simming your character will tell you if your priorities change at higher stat levels.

[Guest Feufou]

Hi, just a minor observation: it says in the BiS slot that Hood of Darkened Visions drops from Elerethe Renferal, when it actually drops from Xavius.

That's all.

[Valks 2,375]

On 10/13/2016 at 7:37 PM, Guest Feufou said:

Hi, just a minor observation: it says in the BiS slot that Hood of Darkened Visions drops from Elerethe Renferal, when it actually drops from Xavius.

That's all.

Ah, thank you. Noted and will get it updated :)

[OromisGlaedr 0]

So, just a minor concern. With this recent patch, it looks like Fire's viability took a nosedive (at least according to SimulCrafts and Noxxic). Noxxic in particular places Fire down to 15th in dps rankings under Realistic DPS with Frost being 9th and Arcane being 5th. And it's not a small difference in dps, either. It's about 13k dps in total. How reliable is this? I was actually kind of upset to be shoe-horned into Fire when the patch started, so I'm not sure if I should look at this as a gift-horse or not. 

[Zadina 923]

Noxxic is known to be unreliable. Simulationcraft have T19 rankings with pre-raid (840) and heroic (865) gear and while all the specs are quite close to each other (like you said 10k difference, which isn't that much imo) Fire is still ahead. Again, take them with a pinch of salt since Nighthold isn't live yet and things will change until then. Also, bear in mind that Blizzard has said that Frost is slightly better than sims show and indeed from some theorycrafting I've seen on the Mage Discord, Frost may be better than Arcane at the moment.

For the current patch right now, the best place to check dps rankings is probably Emerald Nightmare 100% and 75% percentile rankings at Warcraft Logs. Ignore some insane Arcane Mage rankings on Ursoc, since they were cheasing the NT spam build which was hotfixed three weeks ago. Granted that the sample of Fire Mages is a lot bigger than the Arcane and Frost ones, Fire is still better by a large margin.

If you are not in a competitive raiding guild, you should play whatever you like. Don't be forced to play Fire; like I said, 10k may seem a big difference to you, but to me it's not that big - especially if you think that almost no-one can play perfectly and errors can always be made :)