Frost Mage 7.3

[TeraAkron 0]

Dear all,

I am a ~955 ilevel frost mage. I sim all my gear/stats with SimC and/or raidbots. I maintain the ~30% crit and run the cookie-cutter TV build. 

Up till today, my best legendaries were the helmet + sephuz's secret. Today, I got the gloves (Lady Vashj's Grasp). I was very excited as according to this guide (and others), it should have been a clear cut upgrade over Sephuz. Hell, Sephuz is not even listed in your "best legendaries" guide!

Well, according to raidbots, switching gloves for ring (and changing some other gear to maintain the ideal stat balance) results in a 2.5% DPS loss.  Tried with both Patchwerk & Light Movement iterations and nightly & weekly builds. I am not sure how SimCraft simms the proc on the ring but I am at a loss here. The stats and proc on the ring must outshine the value of the extra FoF generated by the gloves. 

Does the legendaries section need revisioning? Did the gloves lose a lot of its value and needs re-assessment? 

Edited January 27, 2018 by TeraAkron

[Zadina 923]

@TeraAkron

Sephuz performs better in sims, since the simulation always finds a way to proc it on cooldown. This isn't always possible in real time situations, for example most raid and dungeon bosses cannot be Frost Nova'd and they may not have any interruptable casts. Sephuz is very good in aoe raid fights and in m+ trash.

The Vashj gloves have indeed lost value, when almost 9 months ago Blizzard nerfed Thermal Void with Ice Lance extending Icy Veins duration by 1 sec (down from 2 secs).

The best legendaries for TV Frost are bracers and TW ring, which I assume you don't have yet. Until then, from some sims I saw, helmet and Vashj gloves should be the better combination.

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/26/2018 at 8:31 AM, MuFeR said:

 So starting with the simple ones, brain freeze procs, do you flurry->IL or frostbolt->flurry->IL? 

Depends on movement. If you have to move, you Flurry > IL. If you can cast, you Frostbolt -> Flurry -> IL, since you'll shatter your FB too.

On 1/26/2018 at 8:31 AM, MuFeR said:

 In the case of having both FoF and brain freeze, do you spend all your FoF by spaming IL or flurry takes priority (according to the guide i think you should flurry first but that means you essentially waste the FoF charge since the target will be frozen from flurry anyway).

Again, as above, it depends. If you are expecting movement in the near future, you want to save your FoF procs, not dump them, since otherwise you'll be spamming unbuffed Lances during the movement phase. If there's no immediate movement and you can comfortably spend the next 10 seconds or so not moving, dump your FoF before using Flurry. If you, for some reason, cast a Frostbolt while you still have your FoF, you need to Flurry anyway. There is no reason not to follow that Flurry with an Ice Lance, even with FoF, since it will deal the bonus damage no matter what. If you waste a Flurry charge by expiring or writing over it, you're losing far more damage than you would losing out on FoF damage.

On 1/26/2018 at 8:31 AM, MuFeR said:

"1.Cast Ice Lance if Winter's Chill is applied AND/OR you have just cast  Flurry."

Isn't instant flurry the only way to apply winter's chill? If so the "and/or" part doesn't make sense and it should be "Cast Ice Lance after you have just cast flurry".

Will notify Furty, thanks!

[Valks 2,375]

1 hour ago, Zadina said:

Sephuz performs better in sims, since the simulation always finds a way to proc it on cooldown.

It's the cheat ring for basically every class in their legendary rankings. Ruins every nice ranking!

2 hours ago, TeraAkron said:

Does the legendaries section need revisioning? Did the gloves lose a lot of its value and needs re-assessment? 

It's easiest to look at it as: if you're doing Eonar or on adds on Hasabel, use Sephuz. If you're in Mythic+, it's solid. On other bosses, don't bother.

The gloves are basically "fine". As Zadina says, take Shard + Mags if you can, since neither replaces a Tier slot and they both give great damage increases. Sephuz will replace Time Warp ring on Eonar and Hasabel, normally, but TW ring can still perform very well if used correctly on those bosses.

[TeraAkron 0]

Understood and thank you for the feedback on Sephuz.

Is there any setting in the Simcraft program (not raidbots, which clearly doesn't have the option) to enable/disable Sephuz's proc for a proper and realistic simming? 

[Valks 2,375]

9 minutes ago, TeraAkron said:

Understood and thank you for the feedback on Sephuz.

Is there any setting in the Simcraft program (not raidbots, which clearly doesn't have the option) to enable/disable Sephuz's proc for a proper and realistic simming? 

AFAIK, playing around with the fight type will change the way Sephuz is treated. Different fights can proc it through CC effects etc., so that might be something looking into? You can do that on RB as well.

[MuFeR 0]

 

On 1/27/2018 at 3:49 PM, Blainie said:

If you can cast, you Frostbolt -> Flurry -> IL, since you'll shatter your FB too.

If there's no immediate movement and you can comfortably spend the next 10 seconds or so not moving, dump your FoF before using Flurry. If you, for some reason, cast a Frostbolt while you still have your FoF, you need to Flurry anyway. There is no reason not to follow that Flurry with an Ice Lance, even with FoF, since it will deal the bonus damage no matter what. If you waste a Flurry charge by expiring or writing over it, you're losing far more damage than you would losing out on FoF damage.

Thanks your post was really helpful! Just to clarify something again, above you said "if you for some reason cast a frostbolt while you still have FoF", i mean shouldn't I?  As you said if I can cast i should frostbolt->flurry->IL and flurry proc takes priority in rotation than FoF. Anyway in short to simplify my original question, in the ideal scenario that the boss isn't threatening me and I can just sit there casting all day, if I get 2 FoF+Flurry proc, do I IL->IL->Frostbolt->Flurry->IL or do i Frostbolt->Flurry->IL->IL (essentially wasting 1 FoF but keeping the rotation priority)

[Valks 2,375]

1 hour ago, MuFeR said:

Thanks your post was really helpful! Just to clarify something again, above you said "if you for some reason cast a frostbolt while you still have FoF", i mean shouldn't I?  As you said if I can cast i should frostbolt->flurry->IL and flurry proc takes priority in rotation than FoF. Anyway in short to simplify my original question, in the ideal scenario that the boss isn't threatening me and I can just sit there casting all day, if I get 2 FoF+Flurry proc, do I IL->IL->Frostbolt->Flurry->IL or do i Frostbolt->Flurry->IL->IL (essentially wasting 1 FoF but keeping the rotation priority)

In a perfect world, you'd go IL - IL - FB - Flurry - IL. Most fights aren't like that, unfortunately. If you know movement is coming up, save your FoF and do FB - Flurry - IL. Even though you waste 1 FoF, you keep 1 to be used when you then move, instead of doing FoF before and then end up spamming unbuffed IL while moving. With Shimmer, you can normally avoid needing to cast while moving (instead just continuing to cast and using Shimmer to move).

[Guest Blaziker]

There might already be a topic for this but i can't read through 283 comments just to be sure..

 

In the Basic rotation section 5th dot you mentioning *Cast icy lance only to spend your Finger of frost charges (make sure frost bomb is applied)*.. 

Now here is the issue in the Talent section you recommending *Unstable magic* this one is on the same Talent row as the Frost bomb. Is there any legendary items i might get later on that lets me to use both? or which of Unstable magic and frost bomb do i actully need?

Sry but it is comfusing for someone who doesn't play frost mage as basis.

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/8/2018 at 8:04 PM, Guest Blaziker said:

Sry but it is comfusing for someone who doesn't play frost mage as basis.

It's there just in case you have taken that talent -  you should still take UM.

[Tesel 0]

So, the guide suggested we use 2+4 tier set, but also suggested the head and gloves from T20 and the rest from T21. But considering stats on those items, wouldn't be better to use hands and shoulders? You'd get two haste and mastery pieces, compared to 2 versatility and one crit and mastery each.

[Valks 2,375]

7 hours ago, Tesel said:

So, the guide suggested we use 2+4 tier set, but also suggested the head and gloves from T20 and the rest from T21. But considering stats on those items, wouldn't be better to use hands and shoulders? You'd get two haste and mastery pieces, compared to 2 versatility and one crit and mastery each.

This is to ensure you come close to shatter cap in the BiS setup - the best pieces to choose based on your own gear depends on if you need help reaching that. 

[Tesel 0]

On 2/13/2018 at 4:02 AM, Blainie said:

This is to ensure you come close to shatter cap in the BiS setup - the best pieces to choose based on your own gear depends on if you need help reaching that. 

But they are based on ilvls for base normal items, right?

Makes sense then. Trough I'd prefer to keep crit off the tier pieces. They are harder to replace (especially since we are running 2+4) then base items. Otherwise you might have issue with having to flip the tier pieces around to avoid crit cap at HC/M grade gear, expecially if you score a big TF.

[Valks 2,375]

18 hours ago, Tesel said:

expecially if you score a big TF.

This is the issue with BiS, unfortunately. TF can just completely ruin everything, since technically you can achieve a "perfect" set of gear with such a tiny chance that nobody will ever achieve it, but at the same time, RNG will decide who gets each piece max-TFed.

[Guest Roclinrolla]

This website is all over the place. One is telling you one best in slot and gems to use and the other on the same exact thread is telling of a completely different set up.

[Valks 2,375]

43 minutes ago, Guest Roclinrolla said:

This website is all over the place. One is telling you one best in slot and gems to use and the other on the same exact thread is telling of a completely different set up.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean - can you explain further, please?

[Guest Qwaks]

Hey guys,

I just had the magteridon legendary and I was wondering how to perfectly deal with it in terms of priorities! 

For the moment I’m trying to always have the 3 procs for my ice lance, but what about the 6 stacks from this legendary?!

I guess I need to maintain it at 6 but, for example, If I don’t have any FoF proc, is it worth otti just cast a unbuffed IL to maintain my 6th stacks of magtheridon or not at all ?!

I don’t know if you understand it well ?! 

Moreover, is there a cap in haste (after having reach the crit cap)  before going for full poly ?!  

Thank you for your help guys!

Regards,

Qwaks 

[Guest Ithaka]

Do we think that Frost is still the best spec for Antorus?

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/22/2018 at 9:01 AM, Guest Qwaks said:

I don’t know if you understand it well ?! 

No, don't cast Ice Lance unbuffed. If you have multiple stacks of FoF, then save them to keep the buff going (unless you have 3, then use one). Try to keep it up using your FoF stacks, but never use an unbuffed one to keep Mag's buff up.

On 2/22/2018 at 9:01 AM, Guest Qwaks said:

Moreover, is there a cap in haste (after having reach the crit cap)  before going for full poly ?!  

This doesn't exist in the sense of a "cap" - stats in Legion are very fluid, meaning their value fluctuates hugely. It depends entirely on your other stats as to whether you'll want to keep prioritising Haste. Run a RaidBots sim to see if it is best for you.

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/22/2018 at 6:09 PM, Guest Ithaka said:

Do we think that Frost is still the best spec for Antorus?

Depends on the fight. If you want an overview of how specs perform, check out the WLogs rankings. It seems like it's still doing very well:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/17#class=Mage&difficulty=4

[Guest Ithaka]

Hey guys, I don't feel like I'm doing as much dps as I feel I should

Can y'all give me any suggestions?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fDy7qNt2kp6hACTn/

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/tanaris/ithaka

Thanks,

              Ithaka, Gnome Mage

[Valks 2,375]

On 3/1/2018 at 6:12 PM, Guest Ithaka said:

Hey guys, I don't feel like I'm doing as much dps as I feel I should

Can y'all give me any suggestions?

I'd recommend reposting this over in the class forum for Mages that we have:

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/forum/21-mage/

This thread is more for feedback on the guide and questions, rather than logs help.

[Giggy1372 0]

Thanks for the guide, I constantly refer back to it for help. 

Couple questions: 

looking at best in slot, Zelous Tormentor’s ring is listed which I was happy to see drop warforged at 950 the other day (because I knew it was recommended BiS) but after running a sim on raidbots and MrRobot comparing my currently equipped 945 Seal of the Portal Master and Zealous it showed roughly a 2% dps decrease. Any guess as to why? Sim having construed parameters or ? My guess was I believe it put me over the shatter cap so it may not be as beneficial as usual? 

 

2: I was happy to see the antorus boss guide for talents, legendaries, etc. but was wondering if you’d reccomend the Journey belt legendary for fights like high command for the stacking blizzard with arctic gale or if mag bracers/exodar are still top priority?

also sorry last question: is double ice lancing a thing? I may be crazy and think my dps has been higher but after flurry I’ve been spamming ice lance (sometimes with blink closer towards target) in an attempt to get more ice lances and or FoF to land while winters chill is active or is it limited to a certain amount during winters chill? 

 

Thanks again for the guide sorry for bombardment 

[Guest Lish]

Hi Guys,

 

i have a question to the topic stat-weights:

As the guide says, the value of haste and versatility should nearly be the same. Also my simulations are saying this. But i'm feeling very uncomfortable with more versatility for the price of less haste... I also have the feeling that i'm doing way more DPS with more haste, cause i'm getting more proccs in a shorter time. My simulations are saying that there's more damage with more versatility and less haste...

Could it be possible, that my feelings are treating me?

I hope you understand my question.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Iantar 0]

Hi guys,

 

I am a returning Player to wow and your detaile class guides have been extremly helpfull catching up, but i have a question about the Talent "Thermal Void" and its interacion with fingers of frost procs.

 

Since the rework it is stated that "Thermal Void" only extends the Duration of "Icy Veins" by 1 second per Ice Lance cast. Since the GCD is also at Minimum 1 second this would give you no real uptime value of the cooldown. Since Ice Lance as an instand cast also does not benifit of haste (despite lowering the global cooldown to a Minimum of 1 sec), Ice Lance does noch gain much from Icy Veins as far as i understand this.

My question now is: is it still worth it storing 2 charges of Fingers of Frost before starting icy veins (since casting Ice Lance will only give you the time on the cooldown back that you spend on one GCD casting it) or might it be better starting Icy Veins, when you have no Fingers of Frost charges and spend as much time as possible (meaning without wasting any Fingers of Frost procs) during Icy Veins casting Frostbolts with the 30% increased Haste it provides?

 

What am i missing here or might this only be a "best practice" Thing, that does not realy increase your DPS?

 

Thanks for your help and Keep up the great work!

Regards Iantar