Assassination Rogue 7.3

[Guest Evium]

On 30/7/2016 at 2:52 PM, Carrn said:

Whatever the remaining duration is on them will be over 4x faster.

Because the ticks of the short Rupture happen so quickly, I'd wait until it expires to apply the new one. Have 6s CPs ready at the end though, to reapply it instantly

I have a problem with this though. As you know, using exsanguinate makes your energy regen go crazy because of venmous wounds. I find my self using this energy to spam mutilate then envenom to not energy cap while the exsanguinated rupture ticks down to 0. But timing this 6 rupture without capping energy and meanwhile spamming mutilate and envenom sometimes result in a clean transition with the ruptures and other times I find myself having rupture down for 2~ seconds as I just envenomed as the exsanguinated rupture was about to expire to not energy cap. Hope it is clear enough to understand.

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, Guest Evium said:

I have a problem with this though. As you know, using exsanguinate makes your energy regen go crazy because of venmous wounds. I find my self using this energy to spam mutilate then envenom to not energy cap while the exsanguinated rupture ticks down to 0. But timing this 6 rupture without capping energy and meanwhile spamming mutilate and envenom sometimes result in a clean transition with the ruptures and other times I find myself having rupture down for 2~ seconds as I just envenomed as the exsanguinated rupture was about to expire to not energy cap. Hope it is clear enough to understand.

Yeah, it's a tricky thing. If you don't crit at all you won't have an issue, but if you crit twice you'll go over on CP. It really depends what else is going on... Maybe you can put a small Rupture (3-4 cp) on a secondary target? Or throw a small envenom in? Whatever works for you, so you can keep 6 cp Rupture rolling on your main target all the time

[Guest Chiefluffe]

hey .. im just looking around for some info about my rogue .. and im a bit confused about the stats on this one .-.. u say that haste is at the buttom of the list for stats .. even so the rogue ur building ur stats around .. furty .. he has haste on alot of items .. almost the best stat he has .. how can that be ?? ..

 

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Guest Chiefluffe said:

hey .. im just looking around for some info about my rogue .. and im a bit confused about the stats on this one .-.. u say that haste is at the buttom of the list for stats .. even so the rogue ur building ur stats around .. furty .. he has haste on alot of items .. almost the best stat he has .. how can that be ?? ..

 

Item level is still the most important thing, because higher level items have more Agility on them which will always be the best stat.

Additionally, just because a stat is on the bottom of the list doesn't mean that it's bad. For example, if Versatility is worth 6 points, Mastery and Crit are worth 4 points, and Haste is worth 3 points, an item that has Vers and Haste might be worth more (9 points) compared to an item with Crit and Mastery (8 points)

The actual math behind choosing an item is a bit more complicated than that, but hopefully that gives you a basic idea and explains why some Rogues will have lots of a stat which otherwise might be bad.

[Furty 51]

6 hours ago, Guest Chiefluffe said:

hey .. im just looking around for some info about my rogue .. and im a bit confused about the stats on this one .-.. u say that haste is at the buttom of the list for stats .. even so the rogue ur building ur stats around .. furty .. he has haste on alot of items .. almost the best stat he has .. how can that be ?? ..

 

Just want to point out if you're looking for me on the armory "Furty" is my Warlock's character name, not my Rogue's. As I spend a lot of time streaming on Twitch there are more than a few people who've ended up mirroring my monicker :) 

[Guest tale]

The rotations section is written for using the raid build from the cheat sheet setup.  If I'm instead using the casual solo/dungeon setup, is this what it works out to?

1. Maintain Rupture on primary and secondary targets (up to 3 targets).
2. Activate Vendetta on the primary target when it is off cooldown.
3. Activate Vanish if off cooldown and you have 5 Combo Points, then Mutilate.
5. Maintain Garrote on the primary target.
7. Cast Envenom to spend extra Combo Points.
8. Cast Mutilate to generate Combo Points.

Thanks for the guide!  My main raider is a mage but I like to have basic competence in all the classes.

[Guest Evium]

Hi this question is not direct to the guide so correct me if this is not the right place. But I have experienced sometimes that when I envenom it does not go off, think it even happend twice in a row? anyone else tried this ?

[Carrn 284]

On 8/4/2016 at 2:37 PM, Guest tale said:

The rotations section is written for using the raid build from the cheat sheet setup.  If I'm instead using the casual solo/dungeon setup, is this what it works out to?

1. Maintain Rupture on primary and secondary targets (up to 3 targets).
2. Activate Vendetta on the primary target when it is off cooldown.
3. Activate Vanish if off cooldown and you have 5 Combo Points, then Mutilate.
5. Maintain Garrote on the primary target.
7. Cast Envenom to spend extra Combo Points.
8. Cast Mutilate to generate Combo Points.

Thanks for the guide!  My main raider is a mage but I like to have basic competence in all the classes.

If you'd like to come have a discussion about this over in the Rogue Forums, we can talk about this more in-depth but I don't believe this thread is the best place for it.

[Guest Banksy]

Casual player here. But love theory crafting when I have time. Does anyone know if the bleeds from Shattered Hand enchants (1 on each dagger) give good number comparisons to the suggested enchants? Considering Hemorrhage and if there is any other talents/passives I'm not remembering as part of Assassination? I'm guessing it doesn't keep up with how much you would get from Shadowmoon and Thunderlord, but didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

[Furty 51]

2 hours ago, Guest Banksy said:

Casual player here. But love theory crafting when I have time. Does anyone know if the bleeds from Shattered Hand enchants (1 on each dagger) give good number comparisons to the suggested enchants? Considering Hemorrhage and if there is any other talents/passives I'm not remembering as part of Assassination? I'm guessing it doesn't keep up with how much you would get from Shadowmoon and Thunderlord, but didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

Not comparable to the listed enchants, no.

[MrOger 20]

On 30.07.2016 at 3:52 PM, Carrn said:

Whatever the remaining duration is on them will be over 4x faster.

Because the ticks of the short Rupture happen so quickly, I'd wait until it expires to apply the new one. Have 6s CPs ready at the end though, to reapply it instantly

Thanks a lot for explanation of these.

Still i`m not sure why we are going for versatility over crit. 100 crit giving us more damage than 100 versatility both directly (more % damage) and indirectly (additional cp gain). About t18 2 bonus - it doesn`t seems like we can go over 70% base critchance, so why crit becomes inferior at this point?

[Carrn 284]

7 hours ago, MrOger said:

Thanks a lot for explanation of these.

Still i`m not sure why we are going for versatility over crit. 100 crit giving us more damage than 100 versatility both directly (more % damage) and indirectly (additional cp gain). About t18 2 bonus - it doesn`t seems like we can go over 70% base critchance, so why crit becomes inferior at this point?

When your Crit Chance is at a point where you will nearly always be getting critical hits, or at the very least probably getting critical hits when you need them, its value falls.

I think I mentioned it above, but the values for both Crit and Vers are very very close. Vers is slightly ahead, however, which is why it's listed as the priority

[Guest Genweas]

Exsanguinate is now only increasing bleed effects by 100% now instead of 400%.  It's a huge game changer.  Can we get an update to this?  Does this make Master Poisoner/Agonizing Poison competitive?

[Guest Carmina]

Does the massive nerf to Exsang change anything?

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, Guest Genweas said:

Exsanguinate is now only increasing bleed effects by 100% now instead of 400%.  It's a huge game changer.  Can we get an update to this?  Does this make Master Poisoner/Agonizing Poison competitive?

 

3 hours ago, Guest Carmina said:

Does the massive nerf to Exsang change anything?

Yes it will change lots, but the nerf happened literally today. Once we get some solid numbers to work with the guide will be updated

[Guest Progression]

After today's substantial Exsanguinate needs - I'm thinking of switching to Master / Poisoner & Agonizing poison. 

New stat priority: Mast > Haste > Vers > Crit

What's your thoughts? I'd like to see potential discussion/input.

I'll also keep updates on my findings over the next week.

-Progression (US-Mal'Ganis)

 

[Progression 0]

 

Hey Rogue fam,

After yesterday's Exsanguinate nerfs - I'm thinking of trialing a new assassination build. This build is going to consist of Master Poisoner, Agonizing Poison & Death from Above (for the +% envenom window for 50% Agonizing application chance). 

New stat priority for this build: Mastery > Haste > Vers = Crit

I feel this build has some great potential. I will update with my findings over the next 2 weeks. 

Let me know your thoughts,

- Progression (US-Mal'Ganis)

[Guest Guest]

Ladies and gentleman,

Its 3 weeks away from launch. Exang being rebalanced doesnt make or break the spec. Blizz balances around max level, which we are not. We are not geared, we dont have the new flasks, pots, or food. We dont even have our weapons, which will change a great deal of things as we progress through new content. Our 'best' rotation and talent tree set up will likely not be decided in pre-patch. It is very safe to say ninja nerfs/buffs will happen more.

In regards to what to pick now, you may want to test things out yourself while this websites fine team devine what is most beneficial to us assassins. Make suggestions in the rogue forum. Learn for yourself and help each other, your friends, and guildies, to learn how to best handle situations in world pvp, 5 mans, and raids. Finally, have patience... Furty is still human, and so is everyone at Ravenholdt/shadow craft. 

Good luck everyone!

[Randon 0]

I cant figure out WeakAura's do you have a link to your string? Is it something that we just figure out tweaking on our own? Im an assassination rogue. Thanks.

 

[Guest Tcshadow]

Just curious if anyone has numbers for a pre legion build. Or what raid spec will be at 110. Thanks everyone 

[Guest Guest Rogue]

any updates with the nerf? or any findings

[Guest Kissmysticks]

I made a small calculation for the Tier 6 talents based on my current gear (ilvl 708).

Tier 6 - Exsanquinate vs Alacrity: Agonizing Poison loses by far because it replaces Deadly Poison. Exsanquinate now with only 100% buff gives maximum 568 Base DPS (with Hemorrhage and Deeper Stratagem active and all bleeds with maximum seconds left). Alacrity, in a boss fight that takes several minutes, is basicly a 20% haste buff. Haste influences both attack speed and energy regen. I just focussed on the increased attack speed. Attack speed has influence on your Base Dps and Deadly Poison damage. In my case the 20% haste buff would buff my Base DPS with 588. I figured the effect of Agility would be the same in both cases. Note that I did not count in the increase of energy regen and that it is impossible to have both bleeds at a maximum seconds left or have the 20% buff at the start of any fight.

Conclusion: My personal preference would be Alacrity because it is easier to uphold and therefore has a lower risk of losing DPS during a boss fight. However, depending on the Boss fight, I think the increase of energy regen will not out weight the time to build up to 20% making Exsanquinate still the better Talent to choose. Could also keep a personal trash to build up stats before a boss fight :)

[Furty 51]

On 8/12/2016 at 8:43 PM, Guest Guest Rogue said:

any updates with the nerf? or any findings

Doesn't have much effect on 110 balance but hurts prepatch damage significantly (due to ICD trinkets + ring - opener is important).

19 hours ago, Guest Kissmysticks said:

I made a small calculation for the Tier 6 talents based on my current gear (ilvl 708).

Tier 6 - Exsanquinate vs Alacrity: Agonizing Poison loses by far because it replaces Deadly Poison. Exsanquinate now with only 100% buff gives maximum 568 Base DPS (with Hemorrhage and Deeper Stratagem active and all bleeds with maximum seconds left). Alacrity, in a boss fight that takes several minutes, is basicly a 20% haste buff. Haste influences both attack speed and energy regen. I just focussed on the increased attack speed. Attack speed has influence on your Base Dps and Deadly Poison damage. In my case the 20% haste buff would buff my Base DPS with 588. I figured the effect of Agility would be the same in both cases. Note that I did not count in the increase of energy regen and that it is impossible to have both bleeds at a maximum seconds left or have the 20% buff at the start of any fight.

Conclusion: My personal preference would be Alacrity because it is easier to uphold and therefore has a lower risk of losing DPS during a boss fight. However, depending on the Boss fight, I think the increase of energy regen will not out weight the time to build up to 20% making Exsanquinate still the better Talent to choose. Could also keep a personal trash to build up stats before a boss fight :)

Thinking Exsang is still your go-to, particularly when cleave is involved. Haste is nice but particularly low value for Assa.

[MrOger 20]

21 hours ago, Guest Kissmysticks said:

Agonizing Poison loses by far because it replaces Deadly Poison.

Er... I think that it`s probably a bad reason for not picking. Deadly poison makes 8.2% of my dps. Agonizing poison is 5.6% per stack for me.

[Guest Guest]

I noticed that seal fate works on fan of knives in an interesting way. If you crit, you get an extra combo point, but you can crit on multiple enemies gaining more than just one bonus combo point. As an example, in shadowmoon burial grounds there are several fights with spiders. The little spiders group up on the tank, allowing you to tunnel the big spiders. If you FoK the group, getting 6 combo points from that one attack is possible. If you repeat that, with some lucky crits you can pass the aoe of an outlaw rogue due to full cp ruptures on everyone and venomous wounds proccing on every tick for massive energy regen.

Good news as far as i am concerned if you have a decent crit %, as this allows you to actually aoe effectively.

Sorta disapointed with this guide not even mentioning an aoe rotation, I know we tunnel better than most but we are not weak in aoe unless everything is spread. 

Finally, this sites outlaw guide includes the stat weights for that spec. I would like to see assassinations stat weights as well, possibly with an explanation of how they were obtained. If this is done, please confirm master poisoner doesnt affect these weights.