Assassination Rogue 7.3

[Carrn 284]

56 minutes ago, Tuinkabouter said:

I've just hit lvl 110 after a few years of no WoW. But anyway, I see the guide mention assassination has low AoE damage. However, with Poison Knives, it seems like FoK -> Rupture -> tab -> repeat, gives insane AoE damage on mobs that are alive a little longer (without really caring how much combo points you have for rupture), after like 3 or 4 different ruptured mobs you basically have infinite energy. Is that terrible play or are AoE packs simply not alive long enough? Or is it bad to take Poison Knives in the first place?

Poisoned Knives isn't the best trait to take, simply because the other recommended ones are so strong. You'll pick it up eventually though.

Sin's AoE is weak mostly by comparison to others, but also because it pales in comparison to the spec's single target damage. AoE damage in raids typically talks about adds with small health pools getting blown up very quickly, something that this spec doesn't really have the tools for.

On 2-3 targets that will live for a long time, Sin's damage is still quite high in this situation because Rupture is such a hard hitting ability, and you can maintain it on 3 targets with relative ease

[Guest jamiex304]

When can except the undated guide for 7.1.5 out on the 10th ?

 

Is there a PTR Guide for 7.1.5 ?

[Valks 2,375]

18 hours ago, Guest jamiex304 said:

When can except the undated guide for 7.1.5 out on the 10th ?

Is there a PTR Guide for 7.1.5 ?

The guides will be updated in the coming days for all specs :)

We don't release guides for the PTR since it is pointless given how often things change.

[Valks 2,375]

The guides are currently being updated for 7.1.5! I just wanted to leave a few notes for all of our users that might be getting ready to leave a comment:

• Some pages do not require updates. The "Last Updated" stat does not mean the page is out of date, it might just not have needed any changes. If you feel that it does, leave a comment telling us what needs changing and why.
• The process will not happen immediately - some guides will be updated faster than others simply due to the number of resources available. Be patient, they'll be ready when you need them!
• There might be some continuity errors when making small adjustments to large guide pages. If you do find one of these, just let us know in the comments and we'll get it fixed ASAP.
• "Why have you not taken into account X buff to X ability?" - remember, just because something got buffed, it doesn't mean it is now automatically better than the other options!

As always, we want to thank you all for being patient while we get things updated and I'm always available to help you all if you need it :)

[Oldbuster 0]

Folks, I note with interest the phrase 'Mastery Heavy' used throughout the guide; Yet I am unable to find what percentage or percentage range is considered Mastery Heavy. Is it 70% 80% 90% 100% 110% 120% 130%.  From a personal standpoint my Sin Rogue has has had all of the previously mentioned mastery percentages as he has progressed in gear level. Whereas now, with the advent of the current patch he sits at 108.62%.

For the sake of clarity in guidance, it would be advantageous to the community to at least provide some effective range in which community members can target. 

[Furty 51]

Just now, Oldbuster said:

Folks, I note with interest the phrase 'Mastery Heavy' used throughout the guide; Yet I am unable to find what percentage or percentage range is considered Mastery Heavy. Is it 70% 80% 90% 100% 110% 120% 130%.  From a personal standpoint my Sin Rogue has has had all of the previously mentioned mastery percentages as he has progressed in gear level. Whereas now, with the advent of the current patch he sits at 108.62%.

For the sake of clarity in guidance, it would be advantageous to the community to at least provide some effective range in which community members can target. 

Usually don't include that anymore because then there is a lot of comment whining about how at those exact numbers they still get better results with the other build, or something to that effect. I would say if you have around 9.5k Crit and 6k+ Mastery you should be fine.

[Oldbuster 0]

2 minutes ago, Furty said:

Usually don't include that anymore because then there is a lot of comment whining about how at those exact numbers they still get better results with the other build, or something to that effect. I would say if you have around 9.5k Crit and 6k+ Mastery you should be fine.

Furty, 

I appreciate the quick response/advice and I full well understand the need to avoid absolutes as they do in-fact draw the crabs :-)

[Guest Strix]

Hoi Guy's,

Great work on your Guides here. Blind has also been readded.

[Valks 2,375]

8 hours ago, Oldbuster said:

Furty, 

I appreciate the quick response/advice and I full well understand the need to avoid absolutes as they do in-fact draw the crabs :-)

We like to keep everyone happy if we can! :D

[Valks 2,375]

24 minutes ago, Guest Strix said:

Hoi Guy's,

Great work on your Guides here. Blind has also been readded.

Glad to hear you're enjoying the new guide. Will ask for Blind to be added to the tools :)

[Guest Shasya]

Hey guys!

First of all, thanks for the amazing guidance that you give us! It helped me a lot!

But i still need question to maximalize my dps. Exactly at the AOE section, because sometimes i feel like a disadvantage to my partymates in mythics. 
So, how can i maximalize my AoE DPS? i know, that if there is a few mob (2-3) i should just use FoK and apply rupture, and use envenom for Bag of Tricks.
But how can i extend my dps on more adds? And what lethal poison should i use? Because it's okay to use agonizing for more dmg taken, but the traits "Poison Knives" give extra dmg for deadly. Im not sure about it, but it looks like more dmg from deadly than agonizing poison. So should i swithc before every bossfight and trashes the 2 poison?

Thank for the patience and for the quick help! 
Have nice day for all of you! 

[Furty 51]

1 minute ago, Guest Shasya said:

Hey guys!

First of all, thanks for the amazing guidance that you give us! It helped me a lot!

But i still need question to maximalize my dps. Exactly at the AOE section, because sometimes i feel like a disadvantage to my partymates in mythics. 
So, how can i maximalize my AoE DPS? i know, that if there is a few mob (2-3) i should just use FoK and apply rupture, and use envenom for Bag of Tricks.
But how can i extend my dps on more adds? And what lethal poison should i use? Because it's okay to use agonizing for more dmg taken, but the traits "Poison Knives" give extra dmg for deadly. Im not sure about it, but it looks like more dmg from deadly than agonizing poison. So should i swithc before every bossfight and trashes the 2 poison?

Thank for the patience and for the quick help! 
Have nice day for all of you! 

Agonizing is absolutely worthless for AoE. For M+ you can either switch poisons back and forth, or just play Exsang. On trash I usually switch to Deadly Poison, apply Rupture/Garrote to a few targets, then spam Envenom until I need to refresh bleeds. 

[Valks 2,375]

4 hours ago, Guest Shasya said:

First of all, thanks for the amazing guidance that you give us! It helped me a lot!

Glad to hear that the guide is working well for you :) If you have any other questions, just ask!

[Guest Shasya]

Thanks the answer! Appreciate a lot!

Another questin! For MP/AP build, how much crit i need? I have around 153% mastery, and 26% crit, and i feel like the crit is just low. (need to mention that im at 863ilvl, kinda low, but i still have a massive 300-400k dps on bossfight and i had in burstime 700-800k)
Ive just wait for get better gear to keep the mastery around 150% and improve my crit?

[Valks 2,375]

28 minutes ago, Guest Shasya said:

Ive just wait for get better gear to keep the mastery around 150% and improve my crit?

I wouldn't sacrifice Mastery specifically to push for crit. Instead, try to use Shadowcraft or Simcraft to check where your weights/gear goals lie. It should give you a better picture of what gear to aim for.

[Guest Shasya]

8 minutes ago, Blainie said:

I wouldn't sacrifice Mastery specifically to push for crit. Instead, try to use Shadowcraft or Simcraft to check where your weights/gear goals lie. It should give you a better picture of what gear to aim for.

 

Thanks for the quick response! :) helped me a lot!
Keep up the good work guys!

[Valks 2,375]

1 minute ago, Guest Shasya said:

Thanks for the quick response! :) helped me a lot!
Keep up the good work guys!

No problem, thanks for using the guides and don't hesitate to ask again in the future if you need help :)

[Guest Donmess]

Hello,

wanted to thank you for the awesome guide and also ask a couple of questions.

are the numbers from simcraft for the new patch reliable or i need to wait for the next simcraft update? (using the latest release)

i have been trying different talents and relics but they just dont add up with what you have said in the guide, for example using vigor and master poisoner instead of elaborate planning and deeper stat drops my sim dps by 20k.

im using 3 MA relics and dont have the assassination legendaries and my stats are as follows:

880 ilvl , 29% crit, 129% mastery, 7% vers, 11% haste.

the other question i have is about the trinket section, im using eye of command 860 and unstable arcanocrystal 860 with socket at the moment and i also have 880 guarm trinket with mastery, however changing the arcanocrystal with the guarm trinket sims lower dps, should i disregard the sim and just replace the trinkets or again its related to simcraft having problems?

[Valks 2,375]

2 hours ago, Guest Donmess said:

are the numbers from simcraft for the new patch reliable or i need to wait for the next simcraft update? (using the latest release)

I'm assuming that you are using the most up-to-date windows build. How new/experienced are you with SimCraft? Is it possible you are making errors while simming? Just need to eliminate the most obvious problems first.

[Carrn 284]

7 hours ago, Guest Donmess said:

Hello,

wanted to thank you for the awesome guide and also ask a couple of questions.

are the numbers from simcraft for the new patch reliable or i need to wait for the next simcraft update? (using the latest release)

i have been trying different talents and relics but they just dont add up with what you have said in the guide, for example using vigor and master poisoner instead of elaborate planning and deeper stat drops my sim dps by 20k.

im using 3 MA relics and dont have the assassination legendaries and my stats are as follows:

880 ilvl , 29% crit, 129% mastery, 7% vers, 11% haste.

the other question i have is about the trinket section, im using eye of command 860 and unstable arcanocrystal 860 with socket at the moment and i also have 880 guarm trinket with mastery, however changing the arcanocrystal with the guarm trinket sims lower dps, should i disregard the sim and just replace the trinkets or again its related to simcraft having problems?

Which build are you playing? Both the poison and bleed builds are viable but use different talent setups, and even those "default" builds should change based on the content or encounter that you're doing

3 MA relics aren't OP anymore since the nerf - they're good, but specifically if you have the boots are they really really good

Your crit is pretty low for 880 ilevel, you might want to try dropping some Haste

For the trinkets you're probably simming single target fight with no changes. That being the case, Eye of Command will be very strong - however, in raid situations, it isn't as strong because you (should) swap targets on a regular basis. My choice of those 3 trinkets would probably be Arcanocrystal and Guarm for most situations, but make sure you sim with various conditions to be sure. 

[Valks 2,375]

Thanks Carrn :)

[Guest Donmess]

Thank you for the response,

i am not that good with simcraft, so i just import from the armory and use the setup that the program already has.

as for the builds, i was using the poison build in the guide before the patch release, and now im testing the new poison build that is on the guide ( vigor and mater poisoner instead of deeper stat and elaborate planning).

and yeah i know my crit should be atleast around 35% but not much luck with the secondary stats here, most of my gear has mastery+haste.

about the trinkets you are right, as im not good with simcraft im just doing the single target simming, thank you for the input, i will be switching the trinkets.

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Guest Donmess said:

Thank you for the response,

i am not that good with simcraft, so i just import from the armory and use the setup that the program already has.

as for the builds, i was using the poison build in the guide before the patch release, and now im testing the new poison build that is on the guide ( vigor and mater poisoner instead of deeper stat and elaborate planning).

and yeah i know my crit should be atleast around 35% but not much luck with the secondary stats here, most of my gear has mastery+haste.

about the trinkets you are right, as im not good with simcraft im just doing the single target simming, thank you for the input, i will be switching the trinkets.

There are some great guides around for Simcraft and how to run it properly. Give it a quick google search, I'm sure you'll find something

[Valks 2,375]

12 hours ago, Guest Donmess said:

i am not that good with simcraft, so i just import from the armory and use the setup that the program already has.

You can try out the guide video from our Hunter writer Azor - it should give you everything that you need to know to run it yourself.

[Guest Hatback]

Thanks for the informative guide!

Just wanted to clarify one thing that didn't seem right to me....

The "Viability in Current Patch" section states:

Quote

6. Viability in Current Patch.

Assassination is currently on par with Outlaw and Subtlety on a single target, and vastly inferior to Outlaw on cleave and AoE. Players that find the variance of Outlaw's damage output to be frustrating may prefer this specialization for boss encounters due to its stable nature. With the appropriate gear (Mastery heavy setup) this specialization can even eclipse the other specializations on single target damage, though it scales poorly when compared with Subtlety.

Maybe this statement just hasn't been updated recently, but a couple things sound somewhat inaccurate:

1.  From looking at data on Warcraftlogs.com, Assassination easily outperforms Outlaw especially and also Subtlety on single target boss fights across all item levels.  I wouldn't consider this "on par".  The updated "Viability in Current Patch" sections for the Outlaw and Subtlety guides also seem to indicate that this is the case.

2. Also from the Warcraftlogs.com data, I don't see any indication that Assassination scales poorly compared to Subtlety.  It looks more like Assassination and Subtlety scale about equally, with Assassination generally beating Subtlety by roughly the same amount as item level increases.