Subtlety Rogue 7.3

[Dethbogs 0]

Thanks for the help Carrn and Blainie

[Guest Bears]

What does the author mean by "Strong 2-3 target cleave" under the Strengths heading on the General Information page?

Am I missing something here? Is the author referring to Shadow Dance + Shurieken Storm? What other source of AoE is there? Would you consider SD+SS to be good?

[Guest Totusgnarus]

A previous post mentioned that avoiding the use of finishers in Shadow Dance is a DPS boost. Is this actually the case?

[Carrn 284]

5 hours ago, Guest Totusgnarus said:

A previous post mentioned that avoiding the use of finishers in Shadow Dance is a DPS boost. Is this actually the case?

No, not as far as I'm aware

[Carrn 284]

8 hours ago, Guest Bears said:

What does the author mean by "Strong 2-3 target cleave" under the Strengths heading on the General Information page?

Am I missing something here? Is the author referring to Shadow Dance + Shurieken Storm? What other source of AoE is there? Would you consider SD+SS to be good?

Dance and Shuriken Storm is good, particularly with Weaponmaster and Second Shuriken.

That said, it's also because of the damage that Nightblade does and how strong it is to keep up on 2 targets

[Adenine 0]

I'm having problem choosing my trinkets, can't quite choose which trinket is better than flat stats trinkets from WQ.

For example i have this Faulty Countermeasure in my bags.

My armory link

[Carrn 284]

41 minutes ago, Adenine said:

I'm having problem choosing my trinkets, can't quite choose which trinket is better than flat stats trinkets from WQ.

For example i have this Faulty Countermeasure in my bags.

My armory link

Sim it, or refer to Shadowcraft or Ask Mr. Robot.

That is the easiest way to know if something is an upgrade for you or not

[Guest Totusgnarus]

Are the stat weights still current? They haven't been updated since August 30, so I'm hesitant to trust them.

[solitha 84]

Just a note, in part 2.1 of the rotation page, you still have Vigor listed as a Tier 7 talent, but it got moved.

Great guides :)

[jareds21 0]

Hello,

 

I wanted to know if this stat priority for Sub is still correct in Legion?

1. Agility;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;
4. Critical Strike;
5. Haste.

Cheers,

J

[Furty 51]

14 hours ago, jareds21 said:

Hello,

 

I wanted to know if this stat priority for Sub is still correct in Legion?

1. Agility;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;
4. Critical Strike;
5. Haste.

Cheers,

J

Mastery takes over at higher item levels. Going to add some clarification for that :) 

[Guest Lyx]

Hello i was wondering what trinket was better for sub:  Unstable Arcano Crystal from World Boss or Eye of Command from the last boss of Karazhan?  The first give a mass buff too all stats and the second give agility plus crit.

[Valks 2,375]

21 hours ago, Guest Lyx said:

Hello i was wondering what trinket was better for sub:  Unstable Arcano Crystal from World Boss or Eye of Command from the last boss of Karazhan?  The first give a mass buff too all stats and the second give agility plus crit.

Are we assuming that they are the same item level? If so, I would say Eye of Command is definitely worth it as long as you are not constantly changing targets.

[Furty 51]

23 hours ago, Guest Lyx said:

Hello i was wondering what trinket was better for sub:  Unstable Arcano Crystal from World Boss or Eye of Command from the last boss of Karazhan?  The first give a mass buff too all stats and the second give agility plus crit.

My instinct says Arcanocrystal but not 100% certain.

[Guest Lyx]

15 hours ago, Blainie said:

Are we assuming that they are the same item level? If so, I would say Eye of Command is definitely worth it as long as you are not constantly changing targets.

Yes 860

[Guest Shattara]

Nice guide, sometimes a bit outdated (talking about hellfire citadel trinkets ^^) but overall really nice, thanks for it

but 1 thing i need you to explain: Why does Weaponmaster pulls ahead over Master of Subtlety in aoe situations? (Tier 1 Talents)

I´ve testet my damage at the trainingdummys in Hall of Shadows, using the singletarget rota and using Shuriken Storm  for gaining CPs. It turns out that Shadowdance will  refreshing on full stacks the whole time, do to the fact that you use much more finishers. That said theoretically i have 100% uptime on Master of Subtlety, which means always 10% more damage, while Weaponmaster only increases damage by 6%.

Running our Twinkrun yesterday with the rogue and Weaponmaster dealt 2-4% of my overall damage at bossfights.

[Guest Zuliette]

Hey there.

Pretty good and solid guide. Though, the "Pandemic" section on Nightblade is a bit lacking, i think. A 5 CP Nightblade, while there's still 4 seconds remaining, wont result to a 22 seconds Nightblade, but to a 20 seconds one. I tried it for a few hours on dummies and the Pandemic value depends on your new Nightblade cast rather than the old one. More specifically, the new duration should be:

New_duration = New_Nightblade's_basic_duration + min ( Remaining_Duration, 0.3*New_Nightblade's_basic_duration )

For example, if you cast a 4 CP Nightblade while theres still 3 seconds left, this should give you a 14 + min (3, 0.3*14) = 17 seconds long Nightblade. If you cast a 5 CP Nightblade while theres 6 seconds remaining, the new duration should be 16 + min (6, 0.3*16) = 20.8 seconds.

I also noticed that, when you dont have the "Finality: Nightblade" buff on you and you cast Nightblade, then you technically give "Pandemic" to a DoT that wont be as strong as the previous one. On the other hand, if you have the buff on you, then you give extended duration to a DoT that hits harder. This, more or less, means that every second Nightblade cast, we should aim for getting the maximum "Pandemic" value from the previous Nightblade. On the other hand, when the "Finality: Nightblade" buff isnt up, its better to let the previous Nightblade expire. In other words, its better to "steal" those few seconds from the first Nightblade to give them to the second one cause it will be stronger due to the "Finality: Nightblade" buff.

 

That said, it would be great if you could test these 2 cases. Have a good day!

Regards,

Zuliette.

 

 

 

[Guest Syyttäjä]

According to other guides energetic stabbing is the best trait to get on a relic, but this guide doesn't even mention the trait.

[Carrn 284]

On 05/11/2016 at 8:58 PM, Guest Zuliette said:

Hey there.

Pretty good and solid guide. Though, the "Pandemic" section on Nightblade is a bit lacking, i think. A 5 CP Nightblade, while there's still 4 seconds remaining, wont result to a 22 seconds Nightblade, but to a 20 seconds one. I tried it for a few hours on dummies and the Pandemic value depends on your new Nightblade cast rather than the old one. More specifically, the new duration should be:

New_duration = New_Nightblade's_basic_duration + min ( Remaining_Duration, 0.3*New_Nightblade's_basic_duration )

For example, if you cast a 4 CP Nightblade while theres still 3 seconds left, this should give you a 14 + min (3, 0.3*14) = 17 seconds long Nightblade. If you cast a 5 CP Nightblade while theres 6 seconds remaining, the new duration should be 16 + min (6, 0.3*16) = 20.8 seconds.

I also noticed that, when you dont have the "Finality: Nightblade" buff on you and you cast Nightblade, then you technically give "Pandemic" to a DoT that wont be as strong as the previous one. On the other hand, if you have the buff on you, then you give extended duration to a DoT that hits harder. This, more or less, means that every second Nightblade cast, we should aim for getting the maximum "Pandemic" value from the previous Nightblade. On the other hand, when the "Finality: Nightblade" buff isnt up, its better to let the previous Nightblade expire. In other words, its better to "steal" those few seconds from the first Nightblade to give them to the second one cause it will be stronger due to the "Finality: Nightblade" buff.

 

That said, it would be great if you could test these 2 cases. Have a good day!

Regards,

Zuliette.

 

 

 

You're supposed to be running Deeper Stratagem, which uses 6CP Nightblades.

Your second point is correct; you should never refresh a Finality-buffed Nightblade for one that isn't buffed. Try to refresh it immediately after it drops

[Guest valeriodean]

Hi,

I have a question: due to the fact that second shuriken is negligible in term of single target (or better, switch to outlow if the fight is full of add), and Embrace of Darkness is negligible in general, why not start to stack the +5% damage instead?

The +10% passive damage seems better for any situation than those two talents, or I missing something?

[Carrn 284]

19 hours ago, Guest valeriodean said:

Hi,

I have a question: due to the fact that second shuriken is negligible in term of single target (or better, switch to outlow if the fight is full of add), and Embrace of Darkness is negligible in general, why not start to stack the +5% damage instead?

The +10% passive damage seems better for any situation than those two talents, or I missing something?

Second Shuriken is fantastic - in fact Sub's burst AoE is significantly stronger than Outlaw's with it

[Fuzion 0]

pls make a sub rogue pvp guide icy veins..

[Valks 2,375]

On 11/3/2016 at 11:18 PM, Guest Shattara said:

Nice guide, sometimes a bit outdated (talking about hellfire citadel trinkets ^^) but overall really nice, thanks for it

but 1 thing i need you to explain: Why does Weaponmaster pulls ahead over Master of Subtlety in aoe situations? (Tier 1 Talents)

I might be wrong, but I believe it is because Weaponmaster has technically more potential AoE damage? It's not just a flat 6% damage boost. Technically it could proc on every single ability you case over the course of a 6-minute fight. Will it? No, you have better chances of multiple lottery wins, but it technically could. 

Going to tag @Carrn anyway, since he can explain better than me, or point out an error!

[Valks 2,375]

9 hours ago, Fuzion said:

pls make a sub rogue pvp guide icy veins..

Our PvP guides are slowly being introduced, but currently we're just trying to make sure there is a guide for each class. We'll work hard to introduce more spec guides, but it does take time! 

[Guest Aoe Burst]

Can someone explain to me how to AoE burst as a sub rogue? The only AoE we got is Shuriken storm isnt it? Even with Shadow Dance the dmg might get doubled, but unless there are about 5+ adds around wont Shadow strikes + Eviscerate be dealing more damage in general? Also, even with Vigor you will be running out of energy after 5 casts and then it takes a while to get the next ones back in, no?

`Sorry for this newb question, but Im almost completly new to WoW.