Subtlety Rogue 7.3

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/15/2016 at 6:26 AM, Guest Ves said:

Do you plan on updating the Sims of the new trinkets from kara? I see it was done for assassination but sub and outlaw don't look like they have been updated. 

Bit late, but I've put in a note about it. It's likely that you'll see an update with the addition of Nighthold trinkets to the sims!

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/21/2016 at 10:04 AM, Felinin said:

Subtlety Rogue DPS Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities page:-

I've put in a note about this, thanks for letting us know! :)

[Valks 2,375]

The guides are currently being updated for 7.1.5! I just wanted to leave a few notes for all of our users that might be getting ready to leave a comment:

• Some pages do not require updates. The "Last Updated" stat does not mean the page is out of date, it might just not have needed any changes. If you feel that it does, leave a comment telling us what needs changing and why.
• The process will not happen immediately - some guides will be updated faster than others simply due to the number of resources available. Be patient, they'll be ready when you need them!
• There might be some continuity errors when making small adjustments to large guide pages. If you do find one of these, just let us know in the comments and we'll get it fixed ASAP.
• "Why have you not taken into account X buff to X ability?" - remember, just because something got buffed, it doesn't mean it is now automatically better than the other options!

As always, we want to thank you all for being patient while we get things updated and I'm always available to help you all if you need it :)

[Guest Correction]

Correction to section 2.5 regarding cheat death. Glad I could help, been using your site for years!

Cheat Death is a talent that allows you to escape lethal damage once every 2 minutes. The damage cannot exceed more than twice your maximum health. Cheat Death is great for soaking mechanics that pierce immunities and damage reductions as it guarantees your survival. It's also great for encounters with bursty damage that might take you by surprise, as you get a free get out of jail free card once every 2 minutes.

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/10/2017 at 7:18 PM, Guest Correction said:

Correction to section 2.5 regarding cheat death. Glad I could help, been using your site for years!

Cheat Death is a talent that allows you to escape lethal damage once every 2 minutes. The damage cannot exceed more than twice your maximum health. Cheat Death is great for soaking mechanics that pierce immunities and damage reductions as it guarantees your survival. It's also great for encounters with bursty damage that might take you by surprise, as you get a free get out of jail free card once every 2 minutes.

Ah, thanks for letting us know! We'll get it updated, thanks!

[Guest Krazyposts]

Checking the new thing on 7.1.5 and i want to ty guys for being so fast at updating the guides. On regards to the legendary section that is not updated yet, the new shoulders seem to be pretty OP for sub, given how often we are in shadow dance thus mantaining a very high uptime on the 100% crit chance, or does it work differently? Hope you can answer my question :p

[Valks 2,375]

24 minutes ago, Guest Krazyposts said:

Checking the new thing on 7.1.5 and i want to ty guys for being so fast at updating the guides. On regards to the legendary section that is not updated yet, the new shoulders seem to be pretty OP for sub, given how often we are in shadow dance thus mantaining a very high uptime on the 100% crit chance, or does it work differently? Hope you can answer my question :p

The buff won't work with Shadow Dance. They are still decent, but definitely nowhere near what they could have been if it worked with SD too.

[Guest Vaer]

Now with the nerfed DS, you should consider the talent Anticipation as a viable choice when you have the legendary Denial of the Half-Giants, because you don't waste extra combo points when you're bursting with Shadowblades and (don't know if it's intended) using eviscerate with 10 cp makes finality trait proc for 40% (doesn't work with finality: nightblade, which is capped at 20%).

[Carrn 284]

15 minutes ago, Guest Vaer said:

Now with the nerfed DS, you should consider the talent Anticipation as a viable choice when you have the legendary Denial of the Half-Giants, because you don't waste extra combo points when you're bursting with Shadowblades and (don't know if it's intended) using eviscerate with 10 cp makes finality trait proc for 40% (doesn't work with finality: nightblade, which is capped at 20%).

You can't use Evis with 10CP. 

Anticipation allows you to store up to 5 extra CP should you ever need them. It's not a particularly useful talent, because you don't end up wasting many as it is, even with Shadow Blades active, assuming that you're performing your Shadow Dance rotation correctly. It does feel a little strange when Shadow Techniques procs in that time, but it's not the end of the world and not really something you can control

That said, Anticipation is useful in fights where you'll be fighting 3+ targets for a sustained duration because of the continued use of Shuriken Storm, but if those targets are not always present you'll do better with Deeper Stratagem 

[Valks 2,375]

4 hours ago, Carrn said:

You can't use Evis with 10CP. 

Thanks for helping to answer Carrn :)

Just further to that question, did he possibly mean that a bug currently allows the buff to work for 40% when using Anticipation? I can't test it myself since I don't have a rogue with the trait, but it might be that it doesn't consume 10 CP, but instead procs as if 10 were consumed.

[Carrn 284]

36 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Thanks for helping to answer Carrn :)

Just further to that question, did he possibly mean that a bug currently allows the buff to work for 40% when using Anticipation? I can't test it myself since I don't have a rogue with the trait, but it might be that it doesn't consume 10 CP, but instead procs as if 10 were consumed.

That actually does seem to be the case, thanks for clarifying

I'll submit a report about it when I get back from class, I don't have time right this second :P

[Valks 2,375]

25 minutes ago, Carrn said:

That actually does seem to be the case, thanks for clarifying

I'll submit a report about it when I get back from class, I don't have time right this second :P

No worries, I'll leave the reporting to you. To the OP, I'll put in a note to Furty about it to test/compare.

[xardasbot1 0]

hi i have 4 trinkets but i dont know with one its better

Entwined Elemental Foci 875 ilev

Unstable Arcanocrystal 860ilev

Draught of Souls 880ilev

Nightblooming Frond 860ilev + socket

with 2 is better to equip and why?

[Valks 2,375]

9 minutes ago, xardasbot1 said:

with 2 is better to equip and why?

Can you show me your armoury before I answer? :)

[xardasbot1 0]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/burning-legion/Sabrac/simple

 

[Valks 2,375]

20 hours ago, xardasbot1 said:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/burning-legion/Sabrac/simple

 

Nightblooming + Draught.

[xardasbot1 0]

why  Draught ? haste is very bad for sub this active is that good?

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/10/2017 at 4:45 PM, xardasbot1 said:

why  Draught ? haste is very bad for sub this active is that good?

Yes, the on-use is very powerful. 

[Carrn 284]

On 10/02/2017 at 4:45 PM, xardasbot1 said:

why  Draught ? haste is very bad for sub this active is that good?

Haste might not be the most valuable stat, but it's still an increase to damage. Having it doesn't make you bad.

[Valks 2,375]

33 minutes ago, Carrn said:

Haste might not be the most valuable stat, but it's still an increase to damage. Having it doesn't make you bad.

That's also a good point, thanks for mentioning it, probably should have done so myself.

To the original question, it's still a buff to energy regen and attack speed, so it's not going to decrease your DPS by having it.

[Guest Silvya]

Hi, I've got a remark regarding the 4p : it does affect the 30% pandemic refresh, allowing to refresh the dot sooner and helping for higher uptime on fights with multidoting (and not loosing the finality buff sometimes).

Then a question : is it a dps loss to cast 5cp finishers, especially when the finisher buff is up?

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/16/2017 at 8:53 PM, Guest Silvya said:

Hi, I've got a remark regarding the 4p : it does affect the 30% pandemic refresh, allowing to refresh the dot sooner and helping for higher uptime on fights with multidoting (and not loosing the finality buff sometimes).

Then a question : is it a dps loss to cast 5cp finishers, especially when the finisher buff is up?

Will check with Furty and let you know.

[Guest Follower]

When you talk about energy regeneration you reference Vigor as a T7 mastery. It's only T3, just for the FYI

[Guest Elodar]

Hello all.  I need some serious help. I am trying to get back into WOW after an 8 year break and am playing a sub rogue.  I have worked on my gear and am at an 867 ilevel.  I have read a bunch of guides and watched several videos trying to learn the rotation for raids and m+ dungeons.  The issue I am running into is that my DPS is awful.  My guild ran ToV yesterday and they had to "carry" me through because my DPS on boss fights in only 175k to 200k no matter what I do.  We have hunters an pallys pushing 500 and 600k.  Is my damage output normal for my ilevel or am I just bad at this?  Or do sub rogues suck now?

I figure the first thing I need to look at is if I have the completely wrong stats or talents.  Can you please look and let me know if everything looks right.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Elodar/simple

If that looks good I will try and figure out how to record my rotation and go from there.  Typically I stealth, Symbols of Death, and Shadowstrike to full points for a Nightblade.  I then Goremaw's Bite and Backstab to full points for and Eviscerate.  I then Shadowblades, Shadowdance, and Shadowstrike to full points for an Eviscerate.  Roughly continue a rotation like this using Shadowdance whenever it is available and trying to keep Symbols of Death and Nightblade up at all times.  

I mained a rogue from vanilla to wrath and raided a ton.  I was almost always top DPS and now I don't like the feeling of being bad at DPS.  Please help.  Thanks.

[Bunbohue 2]

Looking at your gear, your haste is really high. You should aim to put a lot of that haste into mastery. At your ilvl haste is really far behind in contributing to your dps, compared to mastery and versatility. Also playing with alacrity is most likely a dps loss unless you're doing a lot of aoe content. Premeditation lets you complete 2 shadowstrikes, eviscerate, then 2 more shadowstrikes  ( 4 ss, 2 evis) before shadow dance falls off. If you insist on playing with alacrity you should go into shadow dance with 3-4 cp depending on when you last procced your shadow technique to makes sure you get 4 ss and an eviscerate into your dance. Never ever cast backstab unless you're about to cap energy (~85 energy). You should probably be able to pull out at least 100 k more. 

 

For trinkets you should aim for eye of guarm with mastery, urn from nightbane , chaos talisman from violet hold and/or the trinket from ursoc. All of these are by far better than the ones you have. Nightblooming frond from botanist in Nighthold is also a very good trinket which you can obtain through lfr (normal if possible). 

If you don't do already, sim your character to find your stat weights. In combination with the pawn addon you have a very powerful tool to decide if a piece of equipment is an upgrade. http://simulationcraft.org/ https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/pawn , look up guides on how to use these in combination!!

Good luck! 

 

PS! Sub is not a bad spec, it's complicated, but very rewarding if you can pull it of. Most of all it's really fun :D

adding my armory for reference: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/argent-dawn/Jjajangmyeon/simple

Edited March 7, 2017 by Bunbohue
added armory link