Subtlety Rogue 7.3

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/4/2017 at 9:50 AM, ddkil said:

That is obvious,but is it worth tho?I dont know about that.There is probably more rational use of cloak besides spaming it with 1 stack.

You won't be spamming it. Playing with Deceit is somewhat difficult to do properly, but it's incredibly effective when you do on Eonar. You can pretty comfortably prepare 2-3 30 stack uses of SS during the fight, given the downtime you'll face. The only time where you should continue to spam is when you have just dropped a large stack SS (20+) and there is still a group of 4+ mobs to AoE down.

[Guest TimeMaster]

Hey, nice guide. I really enjoy reading it, i have a question though. What's the time length in which i should be expecting to farm a full legendary set ,the most "optimal" one. I there any chance i could farm this in a month? 

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, Guest TimeMaster said:

Hey, nice guide. I really enjoy reading it, i have a question though. What's the time length in which i should be expecting to farm a full legendary set ,the most "optimal" one. I there any chance i could farm this in a month? 

No, not without some absolutely insane luck

[ddkil 3]

Finally first of the dead dropped.So,it seems like mantle+gloves with t20(2)+t21(2) is pretty strong so how do I correctly use gloves?

Is it best to symbols first then backstab into dfa+SD or wait for 6 cp then dfa+SD+symbols simultaneously?How do I correctly play with that?

After playing few month with only bracers build the cds and timings on symbols/dfa look weird to me in that build. :/

[Guest Sue]

I noticed that Insignia of the Grand Army hasn't been added to the legendary list. Is it utterly worthless or is someone working on it?

[Guest Rainheart]

Latest simulations say best legendaries are mantle + hands https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/combinations/1t-t21-rogue-subtlety

Maybe it's time to update the guide, also I think that will have a big impact on the stat weights?

[ddkil 3]

So,Idk about t21 4 piece set bonus.Either its shit or sims are broken but my 4 piece heroic sims even worse then 2 low t20 pieces (930 and 915) + 2 heroic pieces t21 no matter what.Rings build + t21(4)/t20(2) also falls behind to mantle+hands with t21(2)/t20(2) build.

Edited December 20, 2017 by ddkil

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:19 AM, ddkil said:

Is it best to symbols first then backstab into dfa+SD or wait for 6 cp then dfa+SD+symbols simultaneously?How do I correctly play with that?

Realistically, it honestly doesn't matter much. You won't get more than a single use of generator with gloves buff. You'll need to pick based on your current energy levels, as well as if there's AoE. If there's AoE, you prioritise the first route (Symbols, BS, DFA) because you'll want to buff the aoe jump from DFA. Otherwise, just pick based on normal rotation priority for that. 

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/20/2017 at 2:08 PM, Guest Sue said:

I noticed that Insignia of the Grand Army hasn't been added to the legendary list. Is it utterly worthless or is someone working on it?

It varies entirely based on what you have in the NLC. It can verge on completely useless with awful rolls on relics, or OK with good ones. It's pretty easy to sim it though - you'll need crucible information from an addon to do so though, since RaidBots won't pick it up automatically. Use the SimC addon for this.

[Valks 2,375]

20 hours ago, Guest Rainheart said:

Latest simulations say best legendaries are mantle + hands https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/combinations/1t-t21-rogue-subtlety

Maybe it's time to update the guide, also I think that will have a big impact on the stat weights?

I've made a note for Furty with links to current top logs too - we should have it updated soon!

[Valks 2,375]

20 hours ago, ddkil said:

So,Idk about t21 4 piece set bonus.Either its shit or sims are broken but my 4 piece heroic sims even worse then 2 low t20 pieces (930 and 915) + 2 heroic pieces t21 no matter what.Rings build + t21(4)/t20(2) also falls behind to mantle+hands with t21(2)/t20(2) build.

An update clarifying all of this should be on its way soon - shoulders + gloves or shoulders + cloak seems to be best in Antorus, depending on ST/AoE.

[ddkil 3]

15 hours ago, Blainie said:

An update clarifying all of this should be on its way soon - shoulders + gloves or shoulders + cloak seems to be best in Antorus, depending on ST/AoE.

Its not even about legendary composition.Almost every sim that Ive done showed 4 piece t21 worse than everything else with t20 combination  even despite big  ilvl difference.Maybe its just my character though.But I think blizzard will change the 4th set bonus in the future,4% seems too low and random to make any impact.

Edited December 22, 2017 by ddkil

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/22/2017 at 8:42 AM, ddkil said:

Its not even about legendary composition.Almost every sim that Ive done showed 4 piece t21 worse than everything else with t20 combination  even despite big  ilvl difference.Maybe its just my character though.But I think blizzard will change the 4th set bonus in the future,4% seems too low and random to make any impact.

That's the thing, you won't use T21. A number of classes don't, atm. At first, it looked like sims were showing T21 + T20 + rings was best, since it gave T21 4-piece. Changes then meant that T21 2-piece T20 2-piece + 2 legendaries that filled tier slots was best. 

You'll need some fairly solid T20 pieces, but it's going to be best pretty much everywhere. There's 5-6 specs that are in the same position of needing T20. Some even have T19 being better with very bad T21 pieces.

[ddkil 3]

19 hours ago, Blainie said:

You'll need some fairly solid T20 pieces, but it's going to be best pretty much everywhere. There's 5-6 specs that are in the same position of needing T20. Some even have T19 being better with very bad T21 pieces.

My t20 pieces are 915 and 930,wouldn't call that solid :D So,I guess we will have to stick with it unless blizzard changes 4th bonus or I get like redicilous titanforged pieces?

And by the way,all my experience and sims are on heroic and around 955 Ilvl,so may be on higher difficulties things are different.

Edited December 29, 2017 by ddkil

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/29/2017 at 10:56 AM, ddkil said:

My t20 pieces are 915 and 930,wouldn't call that solid :D So,I guess we will have to stick with it unless blizzard changes 4th bonus or I get like redicilous titanforged pieces?

And by the way,all my experience and sims are on heroic and around 955 Ilvl,so may be on higher difficulties things are different.

Pretty much, yeah! It's a pretty bad situation, but Blizzard generally don't do anything to nerf tier bonuses beyond stopping them working once they become "legacy". 

[Sinreen 0]

so any updates coming soon? best in slot gear is wrong here..t21 set bonus sucks.or noone gives a shit on this guide anymore?

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/14/2018 at 10:21 AM, Sinreen said:

so any updates coming soon? best in slot gear is wrong here..t21 set bonus sucks.or noone gives a shit on this guide anymore?

The BiS is from the perspective of having no legendaries and only doing Antorus.

You'll drop 4-set T21 to run 2-set T21 and 2-set T20 with Shoulders + Gloves in true BiS, but we can't put legendaries that drop on complete RNG in a BiS list, especially since you may never see the gloves/shoulders in the entire expansion.

[TBozz 0]

Hey, I'm new to rogues in general, just hit 100 and changed to sub which seems to be quite fun so far. One thing I've not been able to work out exactly is how prey on the weak works. Where does the 10% increased damage come from? Is it just the initial attack which breaks the stun, or is it applied for some duration? 

 

Seems most likely that it's the initial hit but surely this makes it really hard to plan for any extra damage, especially if there's any aoe going out as it's going to be completely random. 

 

Or am I over thinking it, is the point just to get a bit more dps out on a target and not try and line it up with a burst window or other big hitting ability? 

 

Cheers! 

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, TBozz said:

Hey, I'm new to rogues in general, just hit 100 and changed to sub which seems to be quite fun so far. One thing I've not been able to work out exactly is how prey on the weak works. Where does the 10% increased damage come from? Is it just the initial attack which breaks the stun, or is it applied for some duration? 

 

Seems most likely that it's the initial hit but surely this makes it really hard to plan for any extra damage, especially if there's any aoe going out as it's going to be completely random. 

 

Or am I over thinking it, is the point just to get a bit more dps out on a target and not try and line it up with a burst window or other big hitting ability? 

 

Cheers! 

You're overthinking it lol. Any target which you have stunned (with Cheap Shot or Kidney Shot) takes more damage while they are stunned. If the target is immune to stuns, they don't take the extra damage

Opening with Cheap Shot into Shadowstrike (using the Subterfuge talent) will chunk most quest mobs pretty low, and you can finish them off with Evis > Marked for Death > Evis. Most quest mobs should die easily that way

[Guest Lin]

With regards to this, which pieces of T20 and T21 would be BiS? Or does it not matter?

[TBozz 0]

56 minutes ago, Carrn said:

You're overthinking it lol. Any target which you have stunned (with Cheap Shot or Kidney Shot) takes more damage while they are stunned. If the target is immune to stuns, they don't take the extra damage

Opening with Cheap Shot into Shadowstrike (using the Subterfuge talent) will chunk most quest mobs pretty low, and you can finish them off with Evis > Marked for Death > Evis. Most quest mobs should die easily that way

Awesome, cheers for that, and the  extra info at the end too :) 

[TBozz 0]

Colour me stupid, but I just worked out my confusion. I was thinking about the stun like sap, which would break on damage. But normal stuns don't work like that. 

 

I feel like we all learned something today. 

[Carrn 284]

On 15/01/2018 at 9:40 PM, TBozz said:

I feel like we all learned something today. 

I'll assume you're using the royal 'we' then ;)

[Carrn 284]

On 15/01/2018 at 7:07 PM, Guest Lin said:

With regards to this, which pieces of T20 and T21 would be BiS? Or does it not matter?

Depends which pieces titanforge highest, really

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/15/2018 at 7:07 PM, Guest Lin said:

With regards to this, which pieces of T20 and T21 would be BiS? Or does it not matter?

In addition to Carrn's point about TFing, it also depends on your stats. There's no better way to check it than simming it if you have multiple pieces that could work.