Protection Paladin 7.3

[Drakenshield 0]

I have to agree with Dion in regards to the stat priority not being correct. Haste is hand over fist our best stat still by a MASSIVE margin. Its effects on our survival covers everything, SOTR uptime through SOTR and Judgment, Avengers Shield 4 piece uptime especially with Crusader's Judgment. 

As for our second im finding Mastery to be a distance second especially with higher amounts of haste.

Versatility just isnt that impressive at only 0.003846% per point of Versatility of damage reduction your not going to get very far with it, at best you might get 12% but you can say goodbye to much else stat wise. At least with haste at top priority your SOTR uptime can easily get to 80%, not to mention Light of the Protector being available every 8 seconds and Avengers Shield every 11 at worst.

[Vlad 411]

On July 27, 2016 at 7:47 AM, Guest FluffybroJr said:

There's an error for the Talent Choices, Holy Shield and Consecrated Hammer are in the level 15 section but are actually level 30, while First Avenger and Crusader's Judgment are in the level 30 section but are actually level 15. 

It's on this page: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-paladin-pve-tank-spec-builds-talents

Can you refresh the page a few times? You may be seeing a cached version, because this was changed even before the patch went live (and also changed it before the patch went live). Otherwise, I can't imagine why you'd see the page that way.

20 hours ago, Guest Awesometaco said:

I'm fairly new to being a prot pwlly and was finding it frustrating to deal with trying to tank since the new patch so I came looking for advice but I'm wondering about the section for level 30 talents why get bastion? The skill it utilizes you don't get for 8 more levels so why grab if then? It's literally not using the talent point.

The guide is written for players already at maximum level; it is not a leveling guide. As such, your talent choice does not take into account when certain abilities become available :)

[KrazzdofSargeras 0]

I think that the idea of "Prot Healers" is silly and not part of tanking as the ability currently sit's. It should be used as a CD in cases where you know your going to take a lot of damage and want to be topped off or just after taking damage to come back up, allowing healers to to not have to use a big CD. If you can fit one or two in between just to help out go for it but having it available when you need it is way more important than just using! I see a lot of tanks trying to have big numbers on healing meters I wish meters had a better way to show damage reductions. Bottom Line IMO is that if you can use it and STILL have it up for topping before or after damage is taken then sure but its a save your life CD. Tanks jobs are to stay alive not actively heal themselves! 

Edited July 30, 2016 by KrazzdofSargeras

[brasidas 0]

So here is my question. 

How much haste points do I need for 1% haste increase at level 110?

The reasoning here is, SoTR has 3 charges, individual CD is 16 secs, and each SoTR charge lasts 4.5 secs. To get 16 sec CD to 13.5, you need some 15.7% haste - then SoTR will be up 100%. So I am interested in figuring this one out. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by brasidas

[Guest mclem]

15 hours ago, brasidas said:

So here is my question. 

How much haste points do I need for 1% haste increase at level 110?

The reasoning here is, SoTR has 3 charges, individual CD is 16 secs, and each SoTR charge lasts 4.5 secs. To get 16 sec CD to 13.5, you need some 15.7% haste - then SoTR will be up 100%. So I am interested in figuring this one out. 

Unless I'm misunderstanding it, that's not how charges work; the 13.5 seconds will refresh just *one* charge. You'd need enough haste to get the CD down to 4.5 seconds to have 100% uptime, and I suspect that's not realistic.

[brasidas 0]

12 hours ago, Guest mclem said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding it, that's not how charges work; the 13.5 seconds will refresh just *one* charge. You'd need enough haste to get the CD down to 4.5 seconds to have 100% uptime, and I suspect that's not realistic.

Doesn't it come with three charges at start?

If you pull down the CD down to 4.5 - unrealistic as it may be - then you wouldn't even use the two other extra charges at all, don't you think? Or, when the CD start? When you start SoTR? Or when the SoTR runs out? 

Currently:

4.5[1]/4.5[2]/4.5[3] <- This is how SoTR lasts. 13.5 secs. 

============================================
16[1]----------------------->
........16[2]----------------------->
................16[3]----------------------->

This is how the CD runs, no? 

If you see this, you'd see that you don't need the first SoTR charge to finish the CD at the 4.5 secs mark. [You just expend 2nd charge.] 

Edited August 2, 2016 by brasidas

[Guest mclem]

11 hours ago, brasidas said:

Doesn't it come with three charges at start?

If you pull down the CD down to 4.5 - unrealistic as it may be - then you wouldn't even use the two other extra charges at all, don't you think? Or, when the CD start? When you start SoTR? Or when the SoTR runs out? 

Currently:

4.5[1]/4.5[2]/4.5[3] <- This is how SoTR lasts. 13.5 secs. 

============================================
16[1]----------------------->
........16[2]----------------------->
................16[3]----------------------->

This is how the CD runs, no? 

If you see this, you'd see that you don't need the first SoTR charge to finish the CD at the 4.5 secs mark. [You just expend 2nd charge.] 

Yes, in principle you wouldn't use the extra charges if you did get down to a 4.5 second cooldown, you're right - but I think that's the only way to actually guarantee the 100% uptime that was being theorised. Put it this way: if you *do* use the extra charges in pursuit of 100% CD, at some point you're going to run out - the only way you can actually get 100% uptime is if you replenish the charges  at the same rate or faster than you consume them.

I suppose in principle there's a sweet spot where you run out of charges just as Bastion of Light comes off cooldown, but given the length of BoL's cooldown, I suspect that's not going to help all that much.

In terms of timing, it'd work out like this:

0s: Shield cast. Shield has two charges remaining. CD is at 13.5s

4.5s: Shield cast. Shield has one charge remaining. CD is at 9.0s

9.0s: Shield cast, Shield has no charges remaining. CD is at 4.5s

13.5s: Shield replenishes one charge. Shield cast. Shield has no charges remaining. CD is at 13.5s

18s: Shield cannot be cast. Shield has no charges remaining. CD is at 9.0s.

(As a slight aside, while it's a minor thing, does Bastion of Light also reset the recharge time, so you ideally want to use Bastion immediately after casting Shield if you're trying to maximise uptime? That's perhaps somewhat at odds with its use as a "I need a shield NOW button, though, which is probably a wiser purpose for it)

 

[brasidas 0]

4 hours ago, Guest mclem said:

Yes, in principle you wouldn't use the extra charges if you did get down to a 4.5 second cooldown, you're right - but I think that's the only way to actually guarantee the 100% uptime that was being theorised. Put it this way: if you *do* use the extra charges in pursuit of 100% CD, at some point you're going to run out - the only way you can actually get 100% uptime is if you replenish the charges  at the same rate or faster than you consume them.

I suppose in principle there's a sweet spot where you run out of charges just as Bastion of Light comes off cooldown, but given the length of BoL's cooldown, I suspect that's not going to help all that much.

In terms of timing, it'd work out like this:

0s: Shield cast. Shield has two charges remaining. CD is at 13.5s

4.5s: Shield cast. Shield has one charge remaining. CD is at 9.0s

9.0s: Shield cast, Shield has no charges remaining. CD is at 4.5s

13.5s: Shield replenishes one charge. Shield cast. Shield has no charges remaining. CD is at 13.5s

18s: Shield cannot be cast. Shield has no charges remaining. CD is at 9.0s.

(As a slight aside, while it's a minor thing, does Bastion of Light also reset the recharge time, so you ideally want to use Bastion immediately after casting Shield if you're trying to maximise uptime? That's perhaps somewhat at odds with its use as a "I need a shield NOW button, though, which is probably a wiser purpose for it)

So that means Shield 2 won't start the CD before shield 1's CD finishes, is that correct? 

Then I'd guess the whole discussion is pointless. Thanks for the insight.

Edited August 2, 2016 by brasidas

[Guest Puzzled]

On 7/22/2016 at 9:51 AM, Vlad said:

Regarding Final Stand, it is not just a taunt. It forces the target(s) to attack you for the full duration of Divine Shield. Basically it's a 100% damage reduction cooldown that lasts 8 seconds.

Final Stand is an amplified aoe taunt since it forces them to attack you for 8 seconds instead of the stander taunt + 3 second increased threat generation. Divine Shield does damage reduction for 8 seconds regardless of whether you use final stand or not; if I had all the enemies on me already, does final stand do anything in terms of a major defensive when I use Divine Shield? No, final stand would simply prevent people from ripping off aggro while divine shield does the same old 8 second damage prevention with 5 minute cooldown. The only way to look at it as a major defensive in your statements would be if players seriously didn't know how to raid as a team. Added detail is the presence of misdirect, tricks of the trade, and more importantly blessing of protection (re-added to game on 8/2/2016 btw for prot, so talents will need to be adjusted to add Cavalier at level 60 in place of Blessing of Salvation which was even better than BOP).

If the raid is taking so much damage that the redirection of damage into your 8 second shield helps keep the raid alive, I would be more concerned about what happens after those 8 seconds as all those taunted enemies are still on you and will kill you unless somehow a ton of them died in those 8 seconds.

Final stand really is a 100% conditional talent that is a different approach than Aegis of Light does, by having a clutch redirect to prevent others from taking aggro/damage rather than reducing damage of people behind you. An example for this would be trash before Archimonde: paladin tank will pull the single left add to one side to manage the sleep cc on raid, the other tank grabs the 2 big adds and whatever small adds they have spawn near them, and at some point that tank dies... the paladin could use final stand to instantly grab all aggro well before a misdirect would work, and you'd mitigate damage until it ends (but even so, with properly timed misdirects, that would only prevent minimal raid damage in a group that communicates properly). Or another example would be you see a healer die, pop divine shield to taunt everything blocking all damage until a bres goes out, then the other tank taunts some stuff back, but even then it is risky to ensure you do not have too much on you to die promptly after shield ends.

[Vlad 411]

12 hours ago, Guest Puzzled said:

Final Stand is an amplified aoe taunt since it forces them to attack you for 8 seconds instead of the stander taunt + 3 second increased threat generation. Divine Shield does damage reduction for 8 seconds regardless of whether you use final stand or not; if I had all the enemies on me already, does final stand do anything in terms of a major defensive when I use Divine Shield? No, final stand would simply prevent people from ripping off aggro while divine shield does the same old 8 second damage prevention with 5 minute cooldown. The only way to look at it as a major defensive in your statements would be if players seriously didn't know how to raid as a team. Added detail is the presence of misdirect, tricks of the trade, and more importantly blessing of protection (re-added to game on 8/2/2016 btw for prot, so talents will need to be adjusted to add Cavalier at level 60 in place of Blessing of Salvation which was even better than BOP).

If the raid is taking so much damage that the redirection of damage into your 8 second shield helps keep the raid alive, I would be more concerned about what happens after those 8 seconds as all those taunted enemies are still on you and will kill you unless somehow a ton of them died in those 8 seconds.

Final stand really is a 100% conditional talent that is a different approach than Aegis of Light does, by having a clutch redirect to prevent others from taking aggro/damage rather than reducing damage of people behind you. An example for this would be trash before Archimonde: paladin tank will pull the single left add to one side to manage the sleep cc on raid, the other tank grabs the 2 big adds and whatever small adds they have spawn near them, and at some point that tank dies... the paladin could use final stand to instantly grab all aggro well before a misdirect would work, and you'd mitigate damage until it ends (but even so, with properly timed misdirects, that would only prevent minimal raid damage in a group that communicates properly). Or another example would be you see a healer die, pop divine shield to taunt everything blocking all damage until a bres goes out, then the other tank taunts some stuff back, but even then it is risky to ensure you do not have too much on you to die promptly after shield ends.

I'm sorry, but either my mind is going away, or you have never used Divine Shield before when trying to tank. When you cast Divine Shield, any mobs you are tanking/have aggro of will just ignore you and attack the next person by threat. That makes (and has always made) Divine Stand anything *but* a defensive cooldown since you can't tank anything with it up. Final Stand turns it into a defensive cooldown. Are we talking about different things here?

[Trexon 1]

On 7/20/2016 at 9:58 PM, Guest Dion, from Maintanka said:

Light of the Protector should be used moment it comes from cooldown. 15 sec is extremely small cooldown (and is affected by haste). In six minute fight, you have 24 casts. Let's say that there is 1sec delay on use, so we have 23 LotP casts now. Those 23 can be delayed max 0,6sec until we drop 22 LotP casts. And so on. More you wait and game one cast of LotP, more likely you are going to shave opportunities to cast more LotPs. Note: For this calculation, I used rigid 15sec recharge time on LotP. With Righteous Protector it's even shorter recharge time. It's not about max one cast, it's about multitude of casts. It's part of our AM and should be used extremely often, not to be saved for special occasion.

So I am late to the party with this conversation but using LotP on cooldown is going to be a waste.  You stated that you are considering using it as AM and that your plan is to "never get low" is unrealistic in any mythic progression environment.  Maybe on content that is farm where you never take damage this "might" win out but I doubt it then.  Using Lotp when you are in the 20-30% health range is where this ability shines.  You will be in the 20-30% health range A LOT during progression.  With healers having mana regen issues due to low ilvl gear ect using these heals effectively will be key to our progression tanking.  You can use Lotp 5 times in a row all at 80% health and be out healed by using one Lotp at 20%.  Gaining 2-4% health every 6-7 seconds does nothing  for your survival or your healers mana.  Gaining 26%-38% of your health because you waited a few more seconds to take a big hit will.  Not only will this allow your healers some actual reaction time to notice your health spike  and react because you went low...freaked them out...restored a good chunk of your health and now they can  top you off without blowing all their HIGH mana costing quick cooldowns and continue to use mana efficient heals, but this also puts YOU in control of your character instead of sticking to some mindless click it soon as it comes off cooldown.  

 

If that was what the DEVS wanted out of this ability they would of just made it passive.  "Heals you for 20% of your missing health every 8 seconds *passive*"  but they didn't .  Vlad is 100% right and Treckie also.  This should not be used on cooldown.  

[Guest Rudy199]

Could anyone provide some information why Treckie has critical strike as weapon enchant? He seems to have a lot of haste through his gem slots.

[Vlad 411]

On August 5, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Trexon said:

So I am late to the party with this conversation but using LotP on cooldown is going to be a waste.  You stated that you are considering using it as AM and that your plan is to "never get low" is unrealistic in any mythic progression environment.  Maybe on content that is farm where you never take damage this "might" win out but I doubt it then.  Using Lotp when you are in the 20-30% health range is where this ability shines.  You will be in the 20-30% health range A LOT during progression.  With healers having mana regen issues due to low ilvl gear ect using these heals effectively will be key to our progression tanking.  You can use Lotp 5 times in a row all at 80% health and be out healed by using one Lotp at 20%.  Gaining 2-4% health every 6-7 seconds does nothing  for your survival or your healers mana.  Gaining 26%-38% of your health because you waited a few more seconds to take a big hit will.  Not only will this allow your healers some actual reaction time to notice your health spike  and react because you went low...freaked them out...restored a good chunk of your health and now they can  top you off without blowing all their HIGH mana costing quick cooldowns and continue to use mana efficient heals, but this also puts YOU in control of your character instead of sticking to some mindless click it soon as it comes off cooldown.  

 

If that was what the DEVS wanted out of this ability they would of just made it passive.  "Heals you for 20% of your missing health every 8 seconds *passive*"  but they didn't .  Vlad is 100% right and Treckie also.  This should not be used on cooldown.  

Thank you for this post. It is comforting to see others have the same view as us. I appreciate you taking the time to write this.

On August 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Guest Rudy199 said:

Could anyone provide some information why Treckie has critical strike as weapon enchant? He seems to have a lot of haste through his gem slots.

I will ask and let you know!

EDIT: Treckie replied saying he's been to lazy to change it. He's way overgeared for the content he's doing, and the Haste enchant is quite expensive as well. So I guess disregard that if you're looking to maximise performance :)

Edited August 6, 2016 by Vlad
Added Treckie's reply.

[Arrawnn 2]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 3:23 AM, Guest Puzzled said:

Final Stand is an amplified aoe taunt since it forces them to attack you for 8 seconds instead of the stander taunt + 3 second increased threat generation. Divine Shield does damage reduction for 8 seconds regardless of whether you use final stand or not; if I had all the enemies on me already, does final stand do anything in terms of a major defensive when I use Divine Shield? No, final stand would simply prevent people from ripping off aggro while divine shield does the same old 8 second damage prevention with 5 minute cooldown. The only way to look at it as a major defensive in your statements would be if players seriously didn't know how to raid as a team. Added detail is the presence of misdirect, tricks of the trade, and more importantly blessing of protection (re-added to game on 8/2/2016 btw for prot, so talents will need to be adjusted to add Cavalier at level 60 in place of Blessing of Salvation which was even better than BOP).

If the raid is taking so much damage that the redirection of damage into your 8 second shield helps keep the raid alive, I would be more concerned about what happens after those 8 seconds as all those taunted enemies are still on you and will kill you unless somehow a ton of them died in those 8 seconds.

Final stand really is a 100% conditional talent that is a different approach than Aegis of Light does, by having a clutch redirect to prevent others from taking aggro/damage rather than reducing damage of people behind you. An example for this would be trash before Archimonde: paladin tank will pull the single left add to one side to manage the sleep cc on raid, the other tank grabs the 2 big adds and whatever small adds they have spawn near them, and at some point that tank dies... the paladin could use final stand to instantly grab all aggro well before a misdirect would work, and you'd mitigate damage until it ends (but even so, with properly timed misdirects, that would only prevent minimal raid damage in a group that communicates properly). Or another example would be you see a healer die, pop divine shield to taunt everything blocking all damage until a bres goes out, then the other tank taunts some stuff back, but even then it is risky to ensure you do not have too much on you to die promptly after shield ends.

I find Final Stand to be an awesome and very effective CD that I use at least once per instance. It's an 'oh-shit' button, and buy 8 seconds for other CDs to become available, for your DPS to burn some adds, and for healers to top you off. What makes it especially useful, imho, is that the button remains available even when you've been CC'd and all your other buttons are unavailable. Rather than sitting and watch things fall apart, you can exercise control, hold agro, and give the rest of your party time to make something happen.

[Guest DepressedProt]

0 - Judgement 12s CD - Instant
1.5 3>2BS - Blessed Hammer 4.5s Recharge, 3 charges. - Instant
3 - Consecration 12s CD - Instant
4.5 2>1BS - Blessed Hammer
6 +1>2BS - Avenger's Shied 15s CD - Instant 
7.5 2>1BS - Blessed Hammer
9 - ??????? Pray for Avenger's Shield Proc / Nothing off CD / WTF ???????
10.5 +1>2BS - ??????? Pray for Avenger's Shield Proc / Nothing off CD / WTF ???????
12 - ??????? REPEAT ???????

Mash SOTR when needed.

This is the dumbest rotation in WoW history.

[Orthios 271]

5 minutes ago, Guest DepressedProt said:

0 - Judgement 12s CD - Instant
1.5 3>2BS - Blessed Hammer 4.5s Recharge, 3 charges. - Instant
3 - Consecration 12s CD - Instant
4.5 2>1BS - Blessed Hammer
6 +1>2BS - Avenger's Shied 15s CD - Instant 
7.5 2>1BS - Blessed Hammer
9 - ??????? Pray for Avenger's Shield Proc / Nothing off CD / WTF ???????
10.5 +1>2BS - ??????? Pray for Avenger's Shield Proc / Nothing off CD / WTF ???????
12 - ??????? REPEAT ???????

Mash SOTR when needed.

This is the dumbest rotation in WoW history.

And your point is?

[Guest DepressedProt]

10 hours ago, Orthios said:

And your point is?

That the new class design is absolutely broken, and you fanboys are defending it to the death.  The main reason they crippled most of the quality of life features was to simply migrate them to the artifact weapon.  So while everyone else seemingly grow in power with artifact progression; We get closer to, but no where near the smooth and fun mechanics prior to the patch.

It's a horrible rotation, with an incredible amount of dead time, dependent on standing still.  The complete opposite of the class fundamentals since BC.

It's a statement to let others know they aren't alone in thought.  Whatever your opinion; I'm allowed to express mine.

[Shenrai 0]

I feel very squishy after patch. Not sure what i'm doing wrong but my health is going up and down like a pony.

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 8/10/2016 at 8:00 AM, Guest DepressedProt said:

It's a statement to let others know they aren't alone in thought.  Whatever your opinion; I'm allowed to express mine.

Yes you are.

And I'm hardly a 'fanboy,' but there's little chance that I would ever suggest that the rotation is FULL of downtime. 

Do I hit dead spots?  yes.  Perhaps even more frequently than my Ret, at this point.  But you 'pish posh' away the 'waiting for Artifact' portion of it when it's the crux of the entire expansion, more or less. 

This 'dead spot' is only a 4ish week gap in a 1year+ expansion. 

Calma, da tits.  Don't know how else to say it.

[Jixx 0]

Light of the Protector is now 35% of missing Health instead of 25% as mentioned in your guide

[DarkGuard66 0]

Hi all, where i can look stats for Pawn, like this for MM hunter - http://pastebin.com/EpdZ5Y3D

 

In Noxxic Stat Priority -  Crit > Stamina > Haste > Mastery > Versatility > Strength

Edited August 29, 2016 by DarkGuard66

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 8/29/2016 at 1:41 PM, DarkGuard66 said:

Hi all, where i can look stats for Pawn, like this for MM hunter - http://pastebin.com/EpdZ5Y3D

 

In Noxxic Stat Priority -  Crit > Stamina > Haste > Mastery > Versatility > Strength

Crit for protection?  

[Guest Newbee Protdin]

I am looking into the Artifact progression part, and a little bit confused with the Consecration in Flame.

As the guide goes, it should be purchased in the early stage, and, "Consecration in Flame is the strongest trait to buff for damage output. "
 Can anyone explain that?

In my opinion, Protdin does not seems to ultilize every GCD in rotation. I don't quite understand the value of extending the duration of consecration. It may helps to keep every SotR buffed, but I don't think it is so hard to keep that you need to invest 3 points in the early stage.
Perhaps I will tend to get Stern Judgment before that. Increase crit of Judge seems quite valuable.

(Meanwhile, Forbearant Faithful is a little bit interesting.)

[Vlad 411]

18 hours ago, Guest Newbee Protdin said:

I am looking into the Artifact progression part, and a little bit confused with the Consecration in Flame.

As the guide goes, it should be purchased in the early stage, and, "Consecration in Flame is the strongest trait to buff for damage output. "
 Can anyone explain that?

In my opinion, Protdin does not seems to ultilize every GCD in rotation. I don't quite understand the value of extending the duration of consecration. It may helps to keep every SotR buffed, but I don't think it is so hard to keep that you need to invest 3 points in the early stage.
Perhaps I will tend to get Stern Judgment before that. Increase crit of Judge seems quite valuable.

(Meanwhile, Forbearant Faithful is a little bit interesting.)

Hello, good sir.

There are two reasons for taking Consecration in Flames early on. The first has to do with it being a pretty good trait. It is a damage boost (since multiple Consecrations on top of each other stack), and it can also be a slight survivability boost (as increases the chances that you'll have 100% uptime on Consecration).

But there's also a more pragmatic reason for taking it, which is that, as the guide says, you want to take Tyr's Enforcer and Bulwark of Order quickly. Taking Consecration in Flames is the quickest way to get the first trait (the Stern Judgment alternative is equally fast, but then you need to take Consecration in Flames ANYWAY to make your way down to the second golden trait).

Hope that clears it up.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hey Vlad,

Why the DPS major trait (Enforcer) over the survivability one (Bulwark) first?