Jump to content
FORUMS
Damien

Retribution Paladin 7.3

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Guest Archuriel said:

Am I just getting extremely bad luck with TV crits or is there something wrong with how crit is applied to the main attack of TV vs. Echo?

As Farion said, please do let us know if this continues or you notice a trend of it! It's super helpful when people come back to update us on their findings!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Guest Archuriel said:

I have noticed something that might answer why my SIMS say I should have much higher DPS than I am pulling.  I noticed when testing on a target dummy that I was getting really bad dps during wings (700kish) but overall my abilities were performing as intended, i.e. Crit rates were around the mark.  I realized that I was not getting Templar's Verdict crit during my crusade.  I went back and tested again with a crusade only parse and noticed that I primarily got Echo of the Highlord TV crit, not the main attack.  However, combat logs record it as a TV crit.  I started going back through old parses and realized a crit % for TV was most likely just Echo crit when I had low dps.  I did some more testing and went through Skada, my average crit over a 4min parse was 600k with TV!  The programs are incorrectly counting Echo crits as TV crits.  IMO, sims are doing the same thing and applying your crit rate to the baseline TV attack, when it seems like the main attack is VASTLY underperforming.  As anyone else noticed this going on?  For example, I sim at like 630k over 4 mins but at a dummy I'm lucky to get 530k.  I am keeping the correct rotation and my parses are similar in cast numbers to the higher ones.  Am I just getting extremely bad luck with TV crits or is there something wrong with how crit is applied to the main attack of TV vs. Echo?

 

2 hours ago, Blainie said:

As Farion said, please do let us know if this continues or you notice a trend of it! It's super helpful when people come back to update us on their findings!

Okay, after further discussions and checking my logs i will conclude that :

Crits works with tv properly, but echo is shown the same number as tv just lower number. So you can full crusade with 5 tv crits on 5 tv casts but you will have a total of 10 hits (cause echo) , 5 of which could only be the echo crits and 0 from the initial hit crits.

Edited by Farion
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Archuriel

I am probably over thinking it, but I feel as if I never get good RnG with main TV crits.  I compared one of the top Krosus parses to mine. Roughly the same number of casts and damage for all abilities except TV. His TV averaged 400k more per hit AND had a lower CRIT rate than mine.  So in my mind, the difference in the top parses is purely RnG crits during crusade. Probably a bit narrow minded, but what I see seems to justify it.

My parse

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mwhHc8ZDgRkPJGKC#fight=1&type=summary&source=20&start=0&end=316923

 

One of the top parses

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vV2g6ypNfbZ4THCd#fight=31&type=summary&source=11

 

I know the top parse is a heroic kill, but it was similar in duration and ability usage to mine. Another difference is tier set, however that doesn't account for the massive TV damage delta. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Guest Archuriel said:

I am probably over thinking it, but I feel as if I never get good RnG with main TV crits.  I compared one of the top Krosus parses to mine. Roughly the same number of casts and damage for all abilities except TV. His TV averaged 400k more per hit AND had a lower CRIT rate than mine.  So in my mind, the difference in the top parses is purely RnG crits during crusade. Probably a bit narrow minded, but what I see seems to justify it.

My parse

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mwhHc8ZDgRkPJGKC#fight=1&type=summary&source=20&start=0&end=316923

 

One of the top parses

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vV2g6ypNfbZ4THCd#fight=31&type=summary&source=11

 

I know the top parse is a heroic kill, but it was similar in duration and ability usage to mine. Another difference is tier set, however that doesn't account for the massive TV damage delta. 

Your tv : http://imgur.com/a/z34us 

his t.v :http://imgur.com/a/QmjQF

you and him had roughly same crit chance, he probably over gear you/4 sets=more tv .

just the case being : 1=unlucky, 2= overthinking it, and lastly get more gear.

refer to my post up to see how it's working

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Archuriel

4pc seems to be more valuable than thought I guess, getting as many TV into crusade as possible. I don't see how 2% in stats and maybe 500 more strength equals 400k more per hit on average (not counting that more hits would further deflate this number with roughly a 25% CRIT rates).  It seems that in order to parse well you have to get TV CRIT during crusade and not echo crits. Bad class design imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Guest Archuriel said:

4pc seems to be more valuable than thought I guess, getting as many TV into crusade as possible. I don't see how 2% in stats and maybe 500 more strength equals 400k more per hit on average (not counting that more hits would further deflate this number with roughly a 25% CRIT rates).  It seems that in order to parse well you have to get TV CRIT during crusade and not echo crits. Bad class design imo

Regardless, simc is the mean result, you could go higher or lower , if you're consistently lower then it's a performance issue.

Edited by Farion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Farion said:

Regardless, simc is the mean result, you could go higher or lower , if you're consistently lower then it's a performance issue.

Just something to add to this also - if you're taking a top parse to compare with, it's 100% going to be on the "high" RNG scale, otherwise it wouldn't be a top parse.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Archuriel
25 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Just something to add to this also - if you're taking a top parse to compare with, it's 100% going to be on the "high" RNG scale, otherwise it wouldn't be a top parse.

Good point, hadn't really thought about it that way. My gear setup heavily favors crusade, so I'll wait until I get 4pc to see how I should redistribute stats. I really don't think it's a performance issue, I feel like everything is in in line. WTB last place DPS deaths before lust/crusade/ old war haha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/16/2017 at 5:07 AM, Blainie said:

I would only ever use it if I have absolutely 100% nothing else to cast. It generates no HP in a spec that relies almost entirely on HP damage.

It could be useful in target transitions running from one place to another, as its ranged.  If your Blade is on CD and need extra dps (outside of Judgement and DS) for some reason, like Bloods on Tichondrius maybe? 

Justice Gaze Legendary helm might make it even more useful.  But still in a rather limited capacity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2017 at 4:01 PM, Guest Archuriel said:

Good point, hadn't really thought about it that way. My gear setup heavily favors crusade, so I'll wait until I get 4pc to see how I should redistribute stats. I really don't think it's a performance issue, I feel like everything is in in line. WTB last place DPS deaths before lust/crusade/ old war haha.

Let us know how your testing/changes go! And glad to see that you got the help you needed eventually! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

It could be useful in target transitions running from one place to another, as its ranged.  If your Blade is on CD and need extra dps (outside of Judgement and DS) for some reason, like Bloods on Tichondrius maybe? 

Justice Gaze Legendary helm might make it even more useful.  But still in a rather limited capacity. 

Yeah, that's also another use, true. If you just simply have nothing to use at range. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jake

The guide states it is worth sacrificing some item levels for an artifact relic that improves Wrath of the Ashbringer. Just wondering how many levels it's worth sacrificing? I have a iLvl 840 Fire relic with Wrath of the Ashbringer (+40 item levels). Does anyone know if it'd be better to keep that or equip the iLvl 860 fire relic with sharpened edge (+46 item levels)?

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Guest Jake said:

Does anyone know if it'd be better to keep that or equip the iLvl 860 fire relic with sharpened edge (+46 item levels)?

Not sure on the exact numbers, tagging @Farion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Guest Jake said:

The guide states it is worth sacrificing some item levels for an artifact relic that improves Wrath of the Ashbringer. Just wondering how many levels it's worth sacrificing? I have a iLvl 840 Fire relic with Wrath of the Ashbringer (+40 item levels). Does anyone know if it'd be better to keep that or equip the iLvl 860 fire relic with sharpened edge (+46 item levels)?

 

Thanks!

This is Chart is taken from the Paladin Discord which the link to enter there can be found up in the guide introduction.
relic.png

Edited by Farion
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jake

Awesome thank you! Both relics would be very close then, with sharpened edge having a slight edge! Thanks again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2017 at 6:28 AM, Guest Archuriel said:

4pc seems to be more valuable than thought I guess, getting as many TV into crusade as possible. I don't see how 2% in stats and maybe 500 more strength equals 400k more per hit on average (not counting that more hits would further deflate this number with roughly a 25% CRIT rates).  It seems that in order to parse well you have to get TV CRIT during crusade and not echo crits. Bad class design imo

Did he have the retribution buff? Most top parses for ret have high uptime on that. It really makes it hard to compare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Guest Jake said:

Awesome thank you! Both relics would be very close then, with sharpened edge having a slight edge! Thanks again

Glad to see you got the help needed :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Caervek

Hi, the ret guide "easy mode" section says to use execution sentence for ST instead of Final Verdict. Now I hope I don't come off arrogant but lets compare those talents:

Final Verdict: Provides a decent flat damage buff to both the ST and AoE holy power spender.

Execution Sentence: Adds an additional button to press, a ST holy power spender which depending on gear may offer a small increase to ST damage while making the rotation more difficult/stressful.

Again I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but which of those two sounds "easy mode"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/23/2017 at 2:51 PM, Guest Caervek said:

Hi, the ret guide "easy mode" section says to use execution sentence for ST instead of Final Verdict. Now I hope I don't come off arrogant but lets compare those talents:

Final Verdict: Provides a decent flat damage buff to both the ST and AoE holy power spender.

Execution Sentence: Adds an additional button to press, a ST holy power spender which depending on gear may offer a small increase to ST damage while making the rotation more difficult/stressful.

Again I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but which of those two sounds "easy mode"?

I don't think the point of "easy mode" is to make the class work easier for you,
I do believe it was added as an "Easier" TLDR for the full guide. so instead of going through many sections you just look at one page and do it.

Regardless, will replace E.S with F.V as people who come to the easy mode are alts/new people with no gear hence E.S will be useless for them, As it scales with gear.

Cheers for reminding me about it haha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest geekgirl101

I've been using simcraft fairly recently and just getting a gist of how it works, and I noticed it keeps trying to top my haste over 30%.  Isn't that a bit over-exaggerated?  I thought rets only needed somewhere between 21-23% haste and to stack versatility and crit.  Right now I've got 20% crit, 21% haste, 20% mastery, and 12% versatility and quite a fair amount of gear to swap around for experimenting with.  If I follow simcraft/pawn and equip the gear it recommends I use I end up with 15% crit, 32% haste, 19% mastery, and 8% versatility and I'm losing a lot of dps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Scim

I have a question about using CrusadeCrusade with BL/Heroism/TW. Is it a good idea to use crusade during BL? With haste >25% + BL +15 stacks of CrusadeCrusade it seems that some skills are rendering more time, than an actual cooldown. I think the best way is to use CrusadeCrusade when BL buff will fall down in ~10 seconds. So we can stack up CrusadeCrusade buff as fast as possible. And if it is true, Potion of the Old WarPotion of the Old War can be replaced with Potion of Prolonged PowerPotion of Prolonged Power because second potion will last longer and grant you better stats during BL and CrusadeCrusade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Guest geekgirl101 said:

I've been using simcraft fairly recently and just getting a gist of how it works, and I noticed it keeps trying to top my haste over 30%.  Isn't that a bit over-exaggerated?  I thought rets only needed somewhere between 21-23% haste and to stack versatility and crit.  Right now I've got 20% crit, 21% haste, 20% mastery, and 12% versatility and quite a fair amount of gear to swap around for experimenting with.  If I follow simcraft/pawn and equip the gear it recommends I use I end up with 15% crit, 32% haste, 19% mastery, and 8% versatility and I'm losing a lot of dps.

I don't think haste being good for you is an over-exaggerating as for me it says haste>strength, and dont use pawn's default string, sim your self first, then wear the armor/slot you want to see if it's a dps increase or not, then sim your self again to see if there was a gain, do that for all your pieces.

1 hour ago, Guest Scim said:

I have a question about using CrusadeCrusade with BL/Heroism/TW. Is it a good idea to use crusade during BL? With haste >25% + BL +15 stacks of CrusadeCrusade it seems that some skills are rendering more time, than an actual cooldown. I think the best way is to use CrusadeCrusade when BL buff will fall down in ~10 seconds. So we can stack up CrusadeCrusade buff as fast as possible. And if it is true, Potion of the Old WarPotion of the Old War can be replaced with Potion of Prolonged PowerPotion of Prolonged Power because second potion will last longer and grant you better stats during BL and CrusadeCrusade

No, always use Crusade+Bl, and old war is still our best potion regardless.

Edited by Farion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like Justicar's Vengeance would be good to quick-load stacks of Crusade for more burst. If my math is correct you can get it to 11 stacks in 3 GCDs between Justicar's Vengeance and artifact traits. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Krazyposts

Hey there, I'm an 887 ret that after having the rather lackluster legendary helm for months finally laid his hands on the legendary shoulders.

Now, right after getting them i went to SW to test on a dummy and i noticed that when i use Wake of Ashes it does not give me any sort of buff nor it debuffs the training dummy. Am I still getting the 15% dmg boost or is it bugged?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      We have another triple entry in the hotfix ledger, as Radiant Echoes gets more improvements in retail, while Season of Discovery and Cata Classic get additional class changes.
       August 7  (Source)
      Player-characters
      Steady Flight should no longer be removed after entering an Arena. Quests
      We tuned up the Prototype Shredder MK-03 so that “Eye for an Eye” can be completed. Radiant Echoes Event
      Increased Flightstone and upgrade Crest drop rates in the event. Reduced the HP scaling on all event bosses so that they should be killable in a more-reasonable timeframe. Developers’ notes: This includes both ‘minibosses’ (e.g. Hogger, Thorim) and final bosses (e.g. Remembered Onyxia, Ragnaros). Season of Discovery
      Hunter Heart of the Lion once again has a 100 yard range. Warrior The Focused Rage rune will now correctly reduce the cost of Meathook by 3. Cataclysm Classic
      Fixed an issue where Faerie Fire did not deal intended amounts of threat when used on NPCs targeting another unit.
    • By Stan
      Due to a bug introduced with the War Within pre-patch, some players are receiving item level 250 gear from the weekly cache.
      We've seen numerous reports on Reddit and the official forums that the Last Hurrah weekly quest on live servers drop low-level gear for some players. Apparently, the bug was first introduced with the War Within pre-patch two weeks ago and still hasn't been fixed.
      Here's an example of a low item level drop from the Cache of Awakened Treasures by Omnifox.

    • By Starym
      Week 2 brings quite a few changes, as Hunters in particular rise up, while Shadow has a really bad time. The top 3 remains the same and very consistent, so let's jump in and see what's going on.
      Warcraft Logs Points
      The below logs are based on POINTS, and not actual damage or healing, meaning they log the timed completion for the specs, with higher keys getting more points, obviously. The time in which the dungeon is completed is also a factor, but a much, much smaller one, as it grants very few points if you do it significantly faster than just any in-time completion. We're also using the Normalized Aggregate Scores numbers, for clarity, meaning the top spec is marked as 100 and then the rest are ranked in relation to that peak point.
      All Keys
      95th percentile DPS
      The top 3 remains quite stable with the Evoker-Paladin-Warrior trio reigning supreme. We see the first change of the week right after that though, as Frost DK continues its upward march in dungeons as well as in raids, taking 4th from Elemental. Both DKs are on the rise, as Unholy also moves a spot up, taking advantage of Shadow's precipitous 5-spot fall to the bottom of the top 10. Arms remains stable as two Hunters burst in, Beast Mastery taking 8th and Marksmanship 9th, as Frost Mage disappears down towards the bottom. Speaking of the bottom, Devastation gets some new roommates there, as Outlaw and Destruction fall and give Enhancement and Feral a break.

      Mythic+ All Keys 95th Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      All Percentiles
      As with the top percentiles, the top 3 remains solid, but 4th is immediately changed, thanks to Shadow's massive drop in performance this week. The Priest loses even more ground here, falling 9 spots into 13th, opening 4th up for Arms. Beast Mastery moves even higher here, grabbing 5th and moving in front of Elemental and Frost DK, as Marksmanship brings up the rear and completes the Hunter sandwich in 8th. Affliction breaks into the top 10, just ahead of Unholy which dropped to the final spot.

      Mythic+ All Keys All Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      Raw DPS U.GG DPS Rankings
      U.gg's rankings are based on actual DPS taken from Warcraft Logs data, focusing on the top players and span the past two weeks.
      Frost DK finds itself on top in the raw DPS rankings, as Augmentation isn't calculated properly here. Fury and Arms grab the next two spots, moving ahead of Ret, and the Fyr'alath wins continue in 5th, where Unholy finished the legendary axe streak. Even Survival joins the Hunter good times in 8th, where all three specs gather, just ahead of Balance who closes out the top 10.
      Mythic+ All Keystone DPS rankings by u.gg.
       
       
      For even more in-depth data for each individual key head on over to Warcraft Logs. And if you're interested in more info on the specs themselves you can always check out our class guides (updated for the pre-patch), as well as our Mythic+ guides and Mythic+ tier list.
    • By Stan
      For the next two weeks, the Archaeology quest for Spirit of Eche'ro is available on live servers, so don't forget to get the rare mount before it's gone for 6 months!
      How to Get the Spirit of Eche'ro Mount
      1. Download MapCoords or some other add-os that displays coordinates in the game.
      2. Teleport to Azsuna from the Stormwind/Orgrimmar Portal Room or use your Dalaran Hearthstone to reach Dalaran (Legion) if you have one in your inventory.
      3. Seek out Archaeology Trainer Dariness the Learned in Dalaran at 41,26 and learn Archaeology if you already haven't.
      4. Accept The Right Path quest from the Archaeology Trainer and make your way to Thunder Totem in Highmountain.
      5. Talk to Lessah Moonwater to accept Laying to Rest. For the quest, you must collect 600 Bone Fragments of Eche'ro by rotating between four digsites in Highmountain. The exact locations with coords are outlined below.
      Digsite 1: Darkfeather Valley (50, 44) Digsite 2: Dragon's Falls (58, 72) Digsite 3: Path of Huin (44, 72) Digsite 4: Whitewater Wash (39, 65) it takes roughly around 2 hours to get the mount.
      Spirit of Eche'ro
      "The spirit of Huln Highmountain's pet moose."

      Hurry up! You only have until August 21, 2024, to get the mount!
    • By Stan
      MoP Remix characters that will transfer over to retail will receive a gear boost!
      With Patch 11.0.2 now live on Public Test Realms, you can copy over MoP Remix characters from retail! It appears all MoP Remix characters will receive a character boost so you can dive straight into action when the War Within expansion launches.

      We can't unfortunately log in to the game with the MoP Remix char on the PTR so we can't confirm the Item Level of gear for max level characters. However, keep in mind that the gear boost will scale with your level, so if you're below max cap, you will receive gear appropriate to your current level.
      When Can We Expect MoP Remix Characters to Transfer to Retail?
      MoP Remix ends on August 19, so we assume the characters will need to be transferred to retail by August 22 when Early Access begins.
×
×
  • Create New...