Discipline Priest 7.3

[Aloysius 0]

On 12/30/2016 at 1:08 AM, Pandacho said:

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Can you please link some of your logs, I'm very interested to see how you are playing.

Next time I raid I will link you my meter.  I'm usually aound 55% Atonement.

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/1/2017 at 8:30 PM, Aloysius said:

Next time I raid I will link you my meter.  I'm usually aound 55% Atonement.

Logs can generally show a lot more if you know how to take them!

[sixdice 0]

I would like to say thanks to Blainie, Sugar****, Benji, LotF, and the several others for clarifying the different playstyles available to Disc, and which work in 5man vs raids. Thank you also to Blainie for keeping the comment thread clean/respectful/helpful rather than allowing it to devolve into arguments. What a breath of fresh air! Not that I have anything against the ones arguing - their comments were helpful too - but I was here to learn, not to read the argument. So - thanks to all, from a casual player trying to get better. :-)

-Athesis (Cenarion Circle)

Edited January 7, 2017 by sixdice
Forgot a name

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/7/2017 at 0:29 PM, sixdice said:

but I was here to learn, not to read the argument.

That's why we're here! To make sure you can learn as you wish :) Glad to see you're enjoying the guide and good luck with your Priest!

[Valks 2,375]

The guides are currently being updated for 7.1.5! I just wanted to leave a few notes for all of our users that might be getting ready to leave a comment:

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As always, we want to thank you all for being patient while we get things updated and I'm always available to help you all if you need it :)

[Aladis 0]

I'm really curious on how the secondary stat change in 7.1.5 will affect things (and kind of annoyed in how they weren't explained more in the patch notes). In a weird way I completely understand what they did to make higher ilvl gear better over all, but at the same time I can't see how secondary stats are "nerfed" by this. I suppose I'm just stuck in the older mindset.

Also curious (though I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, feel free to answer it with "ask somewhere else"), how does one theorycraft a disc priest? I feel like there are many more variables that need to be taken into account, compared to other healers and dps, to the point where it kind of becomes pointless. Then again, I know absolutely nothing of the process so that is my uneducated take on it =)

Thanks to every for the awesome guides and super helpful forums!

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/11/2017 at 5:54 AM, Aladis said:

I'm really curious on how the secondary stat change in 7.1.5 will affect things (and kind of annoyed in how they weren't explained more in the patch notes). In a weird way I completely understand what they did to make higher ilvl gear better over all, but at the same time I can't see how secondary stats are "nerfed" by this. I suppose I'm just stuck in the older mindset.

At the moment, from what I'm seeing in all the different guides, it doesn't really seem to be making that much of an impact on the way people are gearing etc. Main stats are still finding themselves in 3rd or 4th priority place for some specs. It's really odd, maybe things will change again in the future.

On 1/11/2017 at 5:54 AM, Aladis said:

Also curious (though I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, feel free to answer it with "ask somewhere else"), how does one theorycraft a disc priest? I feel like there are many more variables that need to be taken into account, compared to other healers and dps, to the point where it kind of becomes pointless. Then again, I know absolutely nothing of the process so that is my uneducated take on it =)

I think the most important distinction to make is between simming and theorycrafting. Simming sucks for healers and for Disc it sucks even more. It's just completely awful. Theorycrafting can definitely be done, because you can manually create different scenarios and basically apply the same maths. It is complicated for sure, since you have different party sizes, different tanks, different types of damage reduction, different types of damage intake, but it can be done for sure. There are just a lot of variables, as you said.

[Guest luvletur]

where is the

Velen's Future Sight?

[Valks 2,375]

3 hours ago, Guest luvletur said:

where is the

Velen's Future Sight?

Will ask for an evaluation of this, not sure why it's not there. Thanks for pointing this out!

[holysister 2]

I got this recently and just do not like it, N'ero band of promises .  At least the 910 was freq useful but considering the cooldown of PW Barrier being 3min and almost all raid bosses now require constant movement - the chance to make this useful is rare.  

Can anyone else suggest a tactic to increase the proficiency/usefulness of this item.  I been trying to get 2 Penances off before the shield goes down but no luck. I usually try to drop it just before large raid wide dmg, so if I penance right after the heal may just be overheal, and if I wait for dmg, I can only get one penance off. 

I probably am just not using it right,  any suggestions?? or did Disc Priests get another Blood-totem saddle blanket, middle finger.  

[Guest Discopath]

This guide hasn't been updated for 7.1.5

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/24/2017 at 8:59 PM, holysister said:

Can anyone else suggest a tactic to increase the proficiency/usefulness of this item.  

In honesty, the only tactic is prediction - you need to work together with your raid to understand where they WILL be rather than where they are. For example, if you're using it on Krosus, you need to think how long you have until the next swap and where it's most going to benefit you. I think that full understand of tactics is basically the best thing, unfortunately!

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/27/2017 at 9:02 PM, Guest Discopath said:

This guide hasn't been updated for 7.1.5

This has since been updated, sorry for the delay and wait :)

[Guest Fatselius]

I have major issues as disc with mana, therefore: it seems wack to recommend haste? Seem to be root of draining my mana intensely. You have taken this from a Beta point of view? Since, as should be given: much have changed, and will change, and made no updates on the guide so far? Schism is rather wicked with weapon proc: 5-6 million critical hit. I have personally tried a 8 million critical hit due stack of atonement and schism. And I had it personally easier in mythic+ with mastery/crit, and raiding I have kinda given up: impossible in pugged groups going above 20 people in numbers. Worth mentioning I had to roll another main: restoration druid, which I am mostly top healer at. The simple fact is, that the idea behind discipline priest is awesome, but fail in practice. The atonement is not lasting long enough for you to either damage nor heal proper: you are always stuck in a middle-phase. 

[Valks 2,375]

46 minutes ago, Guest Fatselius said:

 You have taken this from a Beta point of view? Since, as should be given: much have changed, and will change, and made no updates on the guide so far? 

The guide has been updated multiple times, with the most recent being post 7.1.5 changes at the start of February. 

47 minutes ago, Guest Fatselius said:

I have major issues as disc with mana, therefore: it seems wack to recommend haste? Seem to be root of draining my mana intensely. 

Can you show me a log of you healing as disc? Also, what trinkets do you have? Mana regen trinkets are often the most powerful by far for Disc, since it is well known that they have mana issues.

[holysister 2]

I am very geared and onto heroic NH, and lucky enough to have 4+ set piece gear - sadly this gear is devoid of haste.  Equipping it will bring me down from 30% to 21%.   

Anyone know if 7.2 will have some stronger throughput healing for Disc priests (before you start this gaggy - I can heal .. blah blah goto another post, please ),  as this spec pales in comparison to my shaman, druid, and panda?  

[derenault 0]

With regard to legendary N'ero, Band of Promises.  Your guide still lists this as a very favorable legendary, even after 7.1.5.

 has a lot of power behind it. If every member of your raid is in  Power Word: Barrier, then a single  Penance will hit 20 people at once. Not only that, but the item also works in conjunction with  Barrier for the Devoted, which doubles the healing of the Penance heal on all 20 players. Add a  Power of the Dark Side buff on top of that and you will have a tremendous amount of healing in that one Penance. The result is that this item is very strong on fights where a lot of your raid is stacked up, but it is still usable on other fights as well.

 Having read some feedback online about this trinket. the unanimous conclusion from all of it is that there is no double dip, so to speak.  It will only heal with Penance if the targets in your Barrier bubble are NOT affected by Atonement.  If they're affected by atonement, then there is literally no benefit from the ring's special ability at all.

Did some field testing on this (just on myself), and neither Recount nor the game log is telling me that Penance heals for anything direct while in the Barrier, only normal Atonement healing from the Penance damage.  

I feel like I'm missing something here, because the external feedback and experience I've had thus far make this ring seem like it should be the lowest rated of the lot.  Can you provide any clarity on this?   Thanks.

Edited March 2, 2017 by derenault

[TalonShadowsong 5]

On 2017-03-01 at 10:50 PM, derenault said:

Did some field testing on this (just on myself), and neither Recount nor the game log is telling me that Penance heals for anything direct while in the Barrier, only normal Atonement healing from the Penance damage.  

I feel like I'm missing something here, because the external feedback and experience I've had thus far make this ring seem like it should be the lowest rated of the lot.  Can you provide any clarity on this?   Thanks.

If recount/game logs are telling you that, while in your barrier and using Penance, you are being healed via Atonement with the ring, that means that the ring strictly mimics Atonement healing.
This would then make 100% sense why there is no 'double dip' as you stated. Since the ring would then mimic Atonement healing, you wouldn't be healed twice from Atonement by the same damage source at a time.
Therefore, you could conclude that with Nero equipped, anyone within your Power Word: Barrier, is considered to have Atonement on only when using Penance.

The power of this legendary is very situational at best. On some occasions the boss will not be in range while Barrier needs to be used (aka 3rd Black Harvest on Mythic Gul'Dan), thus making this useless. However, it has a SOME mana saving potential when coupled with the belt and scenarios where you can be in range of the boss with the majority of the raid within your barrier.

Make sense?

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/28/2017 at 6:29 AM, holysister said:

I am very geared and onto heroic NH, and lucky enough to have 4+ set piece gear - sadly this gear is devoid of haste.  Equipping it will bring me down from 30% to 21%.   

Anyone know if 7.2 will have some stronger throughput healing for Disc priests (before you start this gaggy - I can heal .. blah blah goto another post, please ),  as this spec pales in comparison to my shaman, druid, and panda?  

I mean, there are definitely fights where Disc can shine, it just requires a huge amount of planning and a druid willing to throw Innervates your way constantly. The highest parsing Disc (Sups on Telarn) has the highest healing parse and received 5 innervates in a 7 minute fight. 

You need to play around the disc to make it work, otherwise it will fall short. It's not just a simple "get good" - it's forcing your raid to work around you too. I doubt they'll change much about how it works at the moment, honestly. They don't want to make disc the "hybrid" spec and then make it an incredibly powerful healer, especially given how unconventional the spec is compared to normal healing styles in wow.

[Valks 2,375]

We are currently in the process of updating our guides in preparation for the release of 7.2 - please understand that we will not be answering questions in this section about "What is better for 7.2?" prior to the patch release, since all the information will be available when the patch goes live. Please be patient and thanks for waiting!

[Seksi 208]

On 3/27/2017 at 11:22 PM, Blainie said:

We are currently in the process of updating our guides in preparation for the release of 7.2 - please understand that we will not be answering questions in this section about "What is better for 7.2?" prior to the patch release, since all the information will be available when the patch goes live. Please be patient and thanks for waiting!

Any plans to introduce a 5 man section / talent builds? It is extremely different from the raid one and so is the playstyle (easier to play than raiding as disc tho), but when done well can easily produce some of the best clear times due to the added dps.

Easy mode / talents in general and legendaries need a good updating too, Velen is straight up completely broken (good) for disc just because you effortlessly produce 2M++ HPS during your bursts of which more than 50% will be overhealing: perfect for the trinket.

Also helps that its on use 1:15 cd lines up almost perfectly with Light's wrath 1:30 cd :D

[Valks 2,375]

On 3/31/2017 at 3:17 PM, Seksi said:

Any plans to introduce a 5 man section / talent builds?

No idea how I missed this - thread was marked as read, I must have just forgotten to reply! Super smart :D

I don't think there is really any focus on 5-mans, unfortunately. The guides are often focused on the current raid content and any mentions of what is good in other areas is normally included in the talent discussions rather then being listed as a separate thing. I'll put it a note and see what we can do, but there's no promises coming from me!

There is a promise that we'll get the other sections updated though :p

[Seksi 208]

Yeah makes sense given WoW's history :) got the feeling we might even be seeing  5 man "esports" soonish, and for sure Mythic+ is a totally viable way to play the game atm, maybe a "5 man" section will be the new "Easy-mode" section in a few months :D

[Guest Rakuum]

I have a few suggestions I'd like to make to your guide.  Now I know I'm not a top-tier mythic raider, (I'm a nobody, and I'm okay with that) but after trying out the build on this site I found a couple things wrong with it and these two things are crucial to game play as a healer.  First, I'm out of mana all too soon and all too frequently.  This is for two reasons:  I have no throughput, and way, WAY too much haste.  I can get my casts off super quick, sure, but I have absolutely no throughput and I feel like I should with my weapon at 36 traits, and my gear at 871.  Next, I think there needs to be a second look at what talents you can choose.  I think because the stat priority is the way it is, people are thinking you need to choose talents to compliment those stats, which is correct, but since I've already suggested your priorities are wrong, I think we need to look closer at the talents.  I think most of this stems from a lack of understanding of how exactly the Discipline priest is supposed to work, and I think we can fix it fairly easily if we change just a few things.

Let's start out with the basics of how a Discipline priests work and go from there.  My main concern is how they get most of their healing done.  I've tracked several encounters over the course of a couple weeks and found that, with very, very few exceptions, my primary source of healing comes from my Atonement.  Even on healing intensive encounters where, according to your guide, I should be prioritizing spells outside of the Atonement rotation I still manage to have a good 30% of my healing done as Atonement as opposed to 22 - 28% healing done for everything else in my arsenal.  This got me thinking about the rotation and stat priority.  I had been getting all of the right spells out there at the right times, and was still only barely managing a 100k heals/second, if that, and on top of this, I was out of mana very early in the encounter.  So what was I doing wrong?

My theory is that Discipline needs to rely more on it's Atonement than your guide suggests.  Here's why:

Let's look at all of the abilities you have available to you to heal people.  You have:  Plea, Power Word: Radiance, Shadow Mend, and Power Word: Shield.  With the exception of Shadow Mend, none of these are what you would consider to be heavy hitting heals.  PW:S is decent, but because of its cool down, you don't have access to it as often as you need in order to consider it a reliable way to mitigate large sums of damage.

One thing all of these do have in common, however, is they apply the Atonement buff to the target.  Which allows spells you have far more frequent access to to become part of your healing rotation.  You have Shadow Word: Pain, Smite, and Penance to start, and then when you bring your talents into question, you have two more abilities.  Those being either Mind Bender or Power Word: Solace, and either Divine Star, or Halo.  In total, you have in upwards of five spells on relatively short cool downs (if they have any at all) which will transfer damage done into healing.  However, as you point out, damage converted to healing with the Atonement buff is not a one-to-one transference.  So what can we do about this?

An easy, and quite frankly common mistake I see in a lot of beginning healers is the desire to use Haste to pump out as many spells as they can.  However unless you're playing  a Restoration Druid, this will land you in the exact situation I've found myself in on my Discipline priest over and over again; out of mana and, therefore, unable to heal when you're needed.  As a Discipline Priest then, how do we get the numbers we need if we don't stack Haste?  That's easy:  Mastery, Versatility, and Critical Strike in that order.

Right now I'm sure there are plenty of you who are scoffing at this radical idea and I understand why.  Hear me out though.  Everything, and I mean everything you do as a Discipline Priest revolves around Atonement.  All of your non-damaging spells apply it, and all of your damaging spells heal through it.  So if everything is based on this one buff you can sling around at a moments notice, why don't we capitalize on it?  Stack Mastery until  you're near 40 to 45%, then work on your Versatility, until it's near 12 to 15% and finally your Critical Strike.  Here's what this does;  First, your Mastery will make it so your Atonement healing spells will be boosted flat out giving you a larger leeway with your damaging spells to help keep people alive.  Next, your Versatility and Critical Strike will boost your non-Atonement healing AND your Atonement healing.  Giving you overall larger numbers (throughput) to work with, and a smaller need to be super fast.  

In short, this is what your new stat priority should be: Intellect > Mastery > Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

The only reason I say Critical Strike is lower than Versatility, is because they ultimately they do the same thing, however, Versatility will bring the bottom numbers of your healing up on a more stable basis, where Critical Strike will up the top end on a more unstable basis.  Otherwise, they are practically equal.  Haste, therefore, actually falls to the bottom of the pile, because, with the exception of Power Word: Radiance, everything you cast is either instant, or has a very short cast time already.

With this in mind, we should look more closely at the talents.  

DISCLAIMER: I don't tend to differentiate my talents based on what kind of content I'm doing (questing vs. dungeons vs. raids) so there may be better choices based on those criteria.  Mostly I look at what would be best for raiding in a Normal, or Heroic setting and make tweaks based on whether I'm a Tank or Raid healer.

First Tier, I think Castigation, or The Penitent would work best.  I like what Schism does for Atonement healing but it's clunky, and hard to work into a rotation.  The Penitent would be good for when you're tank healing, and Castigation would be best for raid healing with Atonement, but if you're looking at spiky, single-target damage done to other players I think the Penitent would win out.

Second and Third Tiers are up to you and your game play style.

Fourth Tier talents are all about mana regeneration.  So depending on what you're doing in a fight (lots of single-target vs. lots of multi-target healing) you may want to choose your talent carefully.  Personally I prefer Power Word: Solace.  It works really well with the Atonement rotation, and it's damage will be transferred to your Atonement giving you that much more healing.  That being said, if you're doing a lot of tank or single-target healing, you may want to go with Shield Discipline as it will net you a bit more mana more quickly IF every single one of your shields is being completely absorbed, more so if you make frequent use of Rapture.  Mind Bender is a good talent for fights with burst AOE healing needs so if you need that extra bit of healing it's worth taking, but it's mana regeneration (in my opinion) will be very near equal the other two in this tier.

Fifth Tier is a tricky one for me.  I prefer Power Infusion for it's increased cast speed and reduction of mana costs.  It's very powerful and hard to go without.  That being said, I think if you are bad a using cool downs then Twist of Fate would be a good second choice.  Personally, I think Contrition is worthless as it only adds a few seconds onto the duration of a buff you should be maintaining regularly anyway.

Sixth Tier talent choices will largely depend on what kind of healer you are (Tank vs. Raid).  For raid healers, you'll want either Divine Star or Halo depending on whether or not your group is spread out, or stacked together.  These abilities will proc your Atonement, but since it's only on the first target hit, you'll want to make sure you are also able to hit most your party members with the abilities themselves as well in order to get the most healing out of them.  Clarity of Will, I think, should be your go-to for heavy tank healing, but only if the tank is taking huge chunks of damage fairly frequently.  The reason for this is because it has a long cast time, and it doesn't apply the Atonement buff to the target.  However it does stack with itself once effectively doubling it's absorb capacity and with your Power Word: Shield, so it can be used on top of Pain Suppression to help absorb super big hits.

Seventh Tier talents are a little tough to choose from.  I personally like Grace, and Purge the Wicked.  If you're looking to spread your DoT out to lots of targets to make use of the Atonement healing coming in grab Purge the Wicked.  It does heal for quite a lot, but it also requires you to maintain your DoT more effectively to make it worth it.  Grace, in my opinion, far outstrips it.  If you have Atonement up on the targets you're healing (which you should), then your Shadow Mend, and Power Word: Shield in particular will be boosted, as well as Clarity of Will, Divine Star, and Halo healing depending on which talent you've chosen.  If used correctly, this talent can net you a absolute ton of healing from these abilities.  Shadow Covenant is an ability I simply can't find a good use for.  While it gives you a decent and super quick AoE heal, it also gives you a healing absorb.  Since I haven't used it, I don't know if this shield stacks or if it's static, but if it does stack, it's definitely not worth trying out.

I know there's a lot here, and I'm sorry for that, but I think this should be considered for a viable, less stressful build for a Discipline Priest.  I know that since I've started using it, I've started healing for more, and running low on mana much later in encounters so I encourage you to try it out for yourselves, and see how it does.

[Valks 2,375]

On 4/15/2017 at 10:01 AM, Seksi said:

Yeah makes sense given WoW's history :) got the feeling we might even be seeing  5 man "esports" soonish, and for sure Mythic+ is a totally viable way to play the game atm, maybe a "5 man" section will be the new "Easy-mode" section in a few months :D

Definitely a possibility! When it appears, you'll have to give yourself a pat on the back :D