Destruction Warlock 7.3

[Furty 51]

19 hours ago, Guest Rainingblue said:

If the stat scaling is:

Haste: 1.24

Intellect: 1.00

Why should i use a +200int socket instead of all +250 haste ones?

Gems have been nerfed to 150/100 instead of 250/150 for secondaries, that's why :)

17 hours ago, Guest Nisio said:

Thanks for the read! Do we have breakpoints/soft caps for haste or crit?

Not really

[Guest Malfallax]

Back draft duration is reduced by Haste.

My backdraft is around 3sec duration is that intended?

Is backdraft better even though it has such a short duration?

[Ginger 2]

Hello first time posting on Icy Veins...forgive my ignorance if this next question has an obvious answer.

Leveling my first Warlock and decided to commit to Destruction since it fits my idea of the whole class fantasy but something on your summary pages for Destruction confuses me a little bit.

Here it says,

• Strong single target damage

• Exceptional damage to priority targets ("fingertip" burst)

And then here it says,

• Average single target burst

These notes just seem kind of conflicting to me, especially after doing my first couple of low lvl (25-30ish) dungeons and noticing how "bursty" some of my abilities felt.  Any clarification would be greatly appreciated, and thank you for all of these awesome guides.  They really helps an old-school veteran that's been many years absent get back into the game!

[Furty 51]

23 hours ago, Ginger said:

Hello first time posting on Icy Veins...forgive my ignorance if this next question has an obvious answer.

Leveling my first Warlock and decided to commit to Destruction since it fits my idea of the whole class fantasy but something on your summary pages for Destruction confuses me a little bit.

Here it says,

• Strong single target damage

• Exceptional damage to priority targets ("fingertip" burst)

And then here it says,

• Average single target burst

These notes just seem kind of conflicting to me, especially after doing my first couple of low lvl (25-30ish) dungeons and noticing how "bursty" some of my abilities felt.  Any clarification would be greatly appreciated, and thank you for all of these awesome guides.  They really helps an old-school veteran that's been many years absent get back into the game!

Not sure how to clarify it better. Destruction can smack things for a decent amount once or twice with Chaos Bolt and/or Shadownburn but this doesn't make it a good "burst" class. It it good at dealing priority damage (as it says), which basically means killing important things (e.g. adds that spawn that wipe the raid if not killed in 10 seconds or less). Generally speaking classes that are described as having "good single target burst" are instead classes that have very strong cooldowns and can deal high damage for a more extended period (like a Fire Mage's Combustion + Rune of Power combo).

[Ginger 2]

That does help a little Furty, thank you!

I think maybe I just wasn't getting the difference between priority damage and true burst potential with DPS cooldowns or procs.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Ginger

[Guest Simz]

The other warlock in my guild said that he believes Grimore of sac to be the best single target pick aswell as aoe pick, due to impish incarnation on your artifact which increase it by 50%. Is that true or is grimore of service stronger?

[Guest Skramz]

Why this priority relics?????
 whereas according  to simcraft:

immo has the best slice of dmg.
I just dont understand y chaotic instability on the 1st place. y not relics for shard generation and immo damage???

[Guest Muenze]

HI @Furty

Why do you prefer Fire from the Sky over Master of Desaster?

Why 15% aoe dmg over 9% filler dmg?

I don't know anything about the upcoming raid bosses, are there viable usages for rain of fire in raid environment, better than 9% filler dmg?

[Valks 2,375]

11 minutes ago, Guest Skramz said:

immo has the best slice of dmg.
I just dont understand y chaotic instability on the 1st place. y not relics for shard generation and immo damage???

Take a look at the Simcraft talent choices. They prioritise Immolation damage through Roaring Blaze, which means no Backdraft, as well as not taking Reverse Entropy. These is much less focus on Chaos Bolt damage in their sim because they aren't using talents for it. With 3 relics, you will get those Immolation buffs anyway, but with our build at the time of writing this, your damage will see a higher % of Chaos Bolt damage.

[Furty 51]

On 9/12/2016 at 0:21 AM, Ginger said:

That does help a little Furty, thank you!

I think maybe I just wasn't getting the difference between priority damage and true burst potential with DPS cooldowns or procs.

I made some updates that should be live soon to further attempt to clarify so no one else is puzzled :) 

On 9/12/2016 at 1:53 AM, Guest Simz said:

The other warlock in my guild said that he believes Grimore of sac to be the best single target pick aswell as aoe pick, due to impish incarnation on your artifact which increase it by 50%. Is that true or is grimore of service stronger?

Service is stronger on single target while Sac starts to pull ahead on sustained cleave.

[Euko 0]

Hello Furty,

Thanks for the great guides as usual. I was wondering if you or anyone else are able to explain to me why there is such a big difference in stat priorities/weights between the ones you supply for destro and the ones that Mr. Robot gives. Their simulator gives haste>mastery as the two primary secondary stats while you guys say haste>crit (which is what I have been using). Is there reason for this? Have the changes over time -- and most especially the artifact talents -- effected the weights we're used to without our realizing? They have slightly different (yet not too big of a deal) weights for demo as well, but I feel the need to ask when the stat priorities are completely changed. Thanks for your time!

[Valks 2,375]

18 hours ago, Euko said:

Hello Furty,

Thanks for the great guides as usual. I was wondering if you or anyone else are able to explain to me why there is such a big difference in stat priorities/weights between the ones you supply for destro and the ones that Mr. Robot gives. Their simulator gives haste>mastery as the two primary secondary stats while you guys say haste>crit (which is what I have been using). Is there reason for this? Have the changes over time -- and most especially the artifact talents -- effected the weights we're used to without our realizing? They have slightly different (yet not too big of a deal) weights for demo as well, but I feel the need to ask when the stat priorities are completely changed. Thanks for your time!

The best way to explain this is with the idea of highs and lows.

Due to the random nature of Mastery, there are pulls where you will have TERRIBLE RNG, and you will have very small damage increases, while sometimes you will get lucky and have big increases. The use of Crit completely eliminates that aspect of RNG between damage increases, instead having the standard "Will it crit or not?" RNG.

You also have a higher chance of Soul Shard generation when pushing for Haste > Crit.

[Guest Lionsden]

Hi Furty,

 

With the recent changes to Warlock's resting Soul Shard count (Up from 1 to 3) would you consider changing any of the talent priorities. For example, I now found that the Chaos Bolt focus build is much stronger out of the gate than Immolate when running Mythic dungeons.

 

Secondly, I've found from personal experience that I pull much higher dps, even single target, when running Grimoire of Sacrifice over Grimoire of Service. Despite the description of the skill on Wowhead and other DB sites saying it can not crit, my combat log and parsing meters shows Demonic Power does crit, just over 100K for me at ilvl 847 (Artifact ilvl 876). Considering how often this passive ability procs and the fact that boss mechanics can sometime interfere with constant use of Grimoire of Service on cd, I'm curious why Grimoire of Service is still weighted higher for single target dps?

[Euko 0]

7 hours ago, Blainie said:

The best way to explain this is with the idea of highs and lows.

Due to the random nature of Mastery, there are pulls where you will have TERRIBLE RNG, and you will have very small damage increases, while sometimes you will get lucky and have big increases. The use of Crit completely eliminates that aspect of RNG between damage increases, instead having the standard "Will it crit or not?" RNG.

You also have a higher chance of Soul Shard generation when pushing for Haste > Crit.

Well first of all, the weights are calculated over 1000's of simulations so highs and lows average out. There will certainly be pulls where your mastery just didn't do as much as what crit could have done for you, but if the numbers are THAT different it wont be that often, or by that much. Mr. Robot gives int 1, crit 0.62, haste 0.78, mastery 0.77, versa .59 vs Furty's supplied weights at 1, 0.82, 0.9, 0.66, 0.7 respectively. I understand why haste > crit has value, but that isn't what I was asking. As I don't really know where Furty's numbers come from, I am asking how it can be possible for there to be such a huge difference in the numbers, enough so that there would even be a largely different priority. Is it because of the gear each tested with? Perhaps those weights come from different talent/trait selections? Were Furty's weights made before changes have been made, both on blizzard's side and player preference? These are the answers I am looking for, not what you have given me. Thank you again, all.

[Guest Jennifer]

On 9/12/2016 at 5:48 PM, Guest Skramz said:

Why this priority relics?????
 whereas according  to simcraft:

immo has the best slice of dmg.
I just dont understand y chaotic instability on the 1st place. y not relics for shard generation and immo damage???

warlock discourd and other locks are actually saying take burning hunger relic and chaotic instability because you get more shards on immolate crits. Combine that with higher crit chaos bolts and its way better that any aoe relic. I never use rain of fire.

[Valks 2,375]

On 9/16/2016 at 9:26 PM, Euko said:

Well first of all, the weights are calculated over 1000's of simulations so highs and lows average out. There will certainly be pulls where your mastery just didn't do as much as what crit could have done for you, but if the numbers are THAT different it wont be that often, or by that much. Mr. Robot gives int 1, crit 0.62, haste 0.78, mastery 0.77, versa .59 vs Furty's supplied weights at 1, 0.82, 0.9, 0.66, 0.7 respectively. I understand why haste > crit has value, but that isn't what I was asking. As I don't really know where Furty's numbers come from, I am asking how it can be possible for there to be such a huge difference in the numbers, enough so that there would even be a largely different priority. Is it because of the gear each tested with? Perhaps those weights come from different talent/trait selections? Were Furty's weights made before changes have been made, both on blizzard's side and player preference? These are the answers I am looking for, not what you have given me. Thank you again, all.

I simply don't know. I don't know how AMR simmed it. I'm yet to see anyone that agrees with the AMR priority however, let alone the weights, so perhaps that holds some credence. @Furty, any ideas?

[Euko 0]

9 minutes ago, Blainie said:

I simply don't know. I don't know how AMR simmed it. I'm yet to see anyone that agrees with the AMR priority however, let alone the weights, so perhaps that holds some credence. @Furty, any ideas?

That's good enough for me really, I have been pretty happy with Furty's weights anyway.

[Valks 2,375]

Just now, Euko said:

That's good enough for me really, I have been pretty happy with Furty's weights anyway.

Okay. Sorry that I couldn't give more information on the topic anyway, but I'm glad to hear it's sorted now!

[Valks 2,375]

Generic comment being mass posted over the comments threads guys.

We are aware of the changes and our writers are working hard to update the guides to suit what has changed. Currently, there is a lot of work still to be done and it's unlikely that every guide will be up-to-date immediately. Expect a flood of updates over the coming days that will answer all of your questions about what is now best after X change, in time for the reset next week.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

[Guest Burnita(guest)]

Hello, for neck you can use as cheaper version, gift of hast (75 haste)

[Valks 2,375]

7 hours ago, Guest Burnita(guest) said:

Hello, for neck you can use as cheaper version, gift of hast (75 haste)

Technically, yes. We haven't included it since it's not a Legion enchant.

[Guest Grados]

One Question: Naraxas' Spiked Tongue is Best in Slot Trinket? Is this Correct?

[Valks 2,375]

4 hours ago, Guest Grados said:

One Question: Naraxas' Spiked Tongue is Best in Slot Trinket? Is this Correct?

Technically, yes, but it depends on what you are comparing it with. With how different WF/TF systems work, you could find a better trinket due to it rolling a high "warforged" item level. 

Simming is the best way to test it.

[Guest Argonil]

You've probably already heard this, and disagreed, but then I disagree with your disagreement. First of all, Master of Disaster should definitely be taken before Fire From The Sky. There's no contest!
Second, Fire and the Flames is by all standards worse than Master of Disaster. 9% damage is better than 6% cast time, even if you factor in Dimension Ripper's higher proc rate from lower cast time. Especially when Fire and Brimstone is picked.

Also, I get higher sustained DPS on dummies and in raids using GoSac over GoSer. Probably because the Impish Incineration trait gives 50% increased GoSac damage, but only 18% to imp's firebolt. And your imp can die, has travel time, and can get out of range and such. I even preferred GoSac while leveling, as I could easily pull several mobs with immolate and watch them die. But I do see how some warlocks would want a tank, especially those new to the class.

[Valks 2,375]

13 hours ago, Guest Argonil said:

You've probably already heard this, and disagreed, but then I disagree with your disagreement.

Hi there!

Thanks for the feedback, I'll make sure to pass this on to Furty. I just wanted to ask a few things first. Please note that I'm not trying to be annoying or rude, I'm just trying to make sure I've got things together before passing it on for Furty to review.

1. I'll ask about the RoF vs. Incinerate trait issue. Perhaps there is some reason here that we're just not seeing!
2. For FatF vs. MoD, do you have the maths behind this? You seem to be very sure of what you're saying, so I just assumed that you'd done the maths behind it. I'm just asking because it means I can forward it on with your comment. It's generally easier to assess the validity of a suggestion if there is proof with it.
3. For GoSac vs. GoSer, Furty does recommend both as a possible talent. Judging by the most used talents on each fight on WLogs, it does look like both talents get a fair bit of use, but Sac does win out in the end in popularity:
   1. Nyth Heroic - Serv
   2. Il'gynoth Heroic - Sac
   3. Elerethe Heroic - Sac
   4. Ursoc Heroic - Serv
   5. Dragons Heroic - Sac
   6. Cenarius Heroic - Sac
   7. Xavius - Sac

I'll pass all of this on to Furty, but as I said, I'd love to see the maths/thinking behind point 2 before doing so. Thanks!