Frost Death Knight 7.3

[Valks 2,375]

22 hours ago, Guest shattering strikes said:

greetings,

i saw a lot of theorycrafting about DK frost and never saw anyone talking about shattering strikes

It will become viable with T21, I believe. Will wait for further testing when people have it on live, but this is what it looks like will happen ATM.

[Guest Feast]

So.. I understand guide was recently updated for Antorus raid, different legendarys for 4p t21 and best secondary is now mastery. However other guides (wowhead) have suggested a crit build. If someone could have a look at frost dk Antorus bis suggestion list and tell me roughly how accurate it is? I also understand ilvl is kinda priory but you have to draw a line with it at some point don’t you? I’m looking for a rough guide to know what I should be rolling for in raid. I’ve always followed icy veins guides for my dk. But wowhead says crit and tells me what tier pieces I should roughly go for eg. Helm, chest, shoulders, back ( but I am assuming that’s a crit build due to it saying use crit enchants and crit gems) I’m so confused ! I need help.5

[alleraz 11]

On 11/27/2017 at 3:13 PM, Blainie said:

It will become viable with T21, I believe. Will wait for further testing when people have it on live, but this is what it looks like will happen ATM.

I dont see how it would become viable though. T21 doesnt do anything to enhance FS. Its manly just a damage buff and doesnt really alter the Obli build.

[Valks 2,375]

11 hours ago, Guest Feast said:

I’m so confused ! I need help.5

Making a BiS for Frost is near impossible most of the time, since the spec is ridiculously fluid with stats. Your best stats can jump around constantly and, more often than not, you'll be grabbing item level over stats. The best way of checking is through RaidBots simming of your own character. 

[Valks 2,375]

10 hours ago, alleraz said:

I dont see how it would become viable though. T21 doesnt do anything to enhance FS. Its manly just a damage buff and doesnt really alter the Obli build.

Replied on another thread, but putting this here too: 4-set proccs Razorice on every hit, meaning SS build becomes super viable with T21 set. It ends up beating RA as soon as you get 4-piece. You also drop Cold Heart for Koltira's when you get 4-piece, which means you can also run T20 2-set.

[alleraz 11]

9 hours ago, Blainie said:

Replied on another thread, but putting this here too: 4-set proccs Razorice on every hit, meaning SS build becomes super viable with T21 set. It ends up beating RA as soon as you get 4-piece. You also drop Cold Heart for Koltira's when you get 4-piece, which means you can also run T20 2-set.

Hmmm didnt know that the 4 piece actually applies Razorice, wonder why it doesnt say that in the description. I also kinda figured the waist would be better with the 4 piece.  Now does that change other talents when we use SS? or is it literally just that 1 talent change.

Edited November 30, 2017 by alleraz

[Guest Sedarus]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:26 PM, Guest shattering strikes said:

greetings,

i saw a lot of theorycrafting about DK frost and never saw anyone talking about shattering strikes

it worth? (ofc i say that assuming razorice on both weapons)
the 15% str its better then the buff on froststrike (60%) ?

with both weapons with razorice we get the 5 stacks very quick

and our mastery benefit it too

 

I use shattering strikes and the damage is actually really good on single target, especially if you use [Toravon's Whiteout Bindings].

I do not use double razorice though, but then again ive not tried it with it. I do know that it takes more anticipation to actually proc the Shattering strike if you use razorice enchantment only once. Maybe this needs some more testing.

[alleraz 11]

14 hours ago, Guest Sedarus said:

I use shattering strikes and the damage is actually really good on single target, especially if you use [Toravon's Whiteout Bindings].

I do not use double razorice though, but then again ive not tried it with it. I do know that it takes more anticipation to actually proc the Shattering strike if you use razorice enchantment only once. Maybe this needs some more testing.

Well it looks like the 4 piece actually applies RI when it procs so it may make SS better than RA when you get the 4 piece. You dont need RI on both weapons if this is true since RI stacks will happen more often.

Edited December 1, 2017 by alleraz

[Valks 2,375]

On 11/30/2017 at 11:08 AM, alleraz said:

Hmmm didnt know that the 4 piece actually applies Razorice, wonder why it doesnt say that in the description. I also kinda figured the waist would be better with the 4 piece.  Now does that change other talents when we use SS? or is it literally just that 1 talent change.

Nothing else should change, no. You'll still pick the rest as you normally would.

[Valks 2,375]

On 12/1/2017 at 2:39 AM, Guest Sedarus said:

I use shattering strikes and the damage is actually really good on single target, especially if you use [Toravon's Whiteout Bindings].

I do not use double razorice though, but then again ive not tried it with it. I do know that it takes more anticipation to actually proc the Shattering strike if you use razorice enchantment only once. Maybe this needs some more testing.

Only run razorice on your main-hand. There's multiple spells (including the new 4-set) that only trigger on your main-hand enchant, meaning RI on OH would be suboptimal compared to Fallen Crusader.

[Gormnir 0]

The talent choices needs to be updated, with tier 21 set shattering strike actually the best choice for you in that row, the tier 4 bonus procs stupidly often and its 3 shards meaning it instantly puts on 3 stacks and an obli is 2 stacks so 1 obli + the proc is already 5 stacks, and from what ive seen even your dot from howling blast can proc the 4piece(needs further testing to confirm tho), there's really no reason to not use shattering strike with the 4 piece tier 21 bonus. i was abit skeptical myself at first but after getting 4 pieces and playing around with it i am honestly surprised with how stupidly quick i regain 5 stacks if not almost instantly after ive spend them

Edited December 15, 2017 by Gormnir

[Valks 2,375]

4 hours ago, Gormnir said:

The talent choices needs to be updated, with tier 21 set shattering strike actually the best choice for you in that row

It is - I'm not sure why it hasn't been updated yet, but I'll make another note of it.

[Moraxus 2]

Hey, was ust wondering, any reason you recommend the obliteration talent in the talent section but then base the rotation section around breath of sindragosa? :)

[Valks 2,375]

2 hours ago, Moraxus said:

Hey, was ust wondering, any reason you recommend the obliteration talent in the talent section but then base the rotation section around breath of sindragosa? :)

This is written in the guide:

Quote

The multiple target rotation assumes you are using  Breath of Sindragosa as your tier 7 talent. In preparation for Breath of Sindragosa becoming available, you should pool up 50+ Runic Power and 4 runes. While it is active, perform the following steps.

Other than that, I can't see any mention of BoS in the single-target rotation.

[Moraxus 2]

1 hour ago, Blainie said:

This is written in the guide:

Other than that, I can't see any mention of BoS in the single-target rotation.

So whenever the fight isnt single target boss only go BoS?

[Valks 2,375]

1 hour ago, Moraxus said:

So whenever the fight isnt single target boss only go BoS?

Yes, normally. Eonar is a difficult one to choose for, since it depends on your raid. If adds die too fast, BoS is useless and you won't keep it up. Oblit will be better there normally.

[Tabernackle 1]

On 11/27/2017 at 3:13 PM, Blainie said:

It will become viable with T21, I believe. Will wait for further testing when people have it on live, but this is what it looks like will happen ATM.

Ignore post. Was answered above, my mobile forum just wasn't cooperating. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Tabernackle

[Valks 2,375]

5 minutes ago, Tabernackle said:

Ignore post. Was answered above, my mobile forum just wasn't cooperating. 

I assume it was asking why the talents weren't updated - I've pinged the note again, it should be updated very soon. 

It's worth noting, however, that SS isn't always the best with T21 4-set. It sometimes sims differently for other people because, for some reason, Frost is the spec of simming yourself this expansion. Everything changes for everyone. I'd highly recommend checking it on your own character.

[alleraz 11]

1 hour ago, Blainie said:

I assume it was asking why the talents weren't updated - I've pinged the note again, it should be updated very soon. 

It's worth noting, however, that SS isn't always the best with T21 4-set. It sometimes sims differently for other people because, for some reason, Frost is the spec of simming yourself this expansion. Everything changes for everyone. I'd highly recommend checking it on your own character.

I simply dont think simming is taking into account that the 4 set applies razorice cause every frost dk I sim SS ALWAYS preforms lower.

I think the only real way to see if SS does better if you just use the old fashion way and pound on a dummie.

Edited December 19, 2017 by alleraz

[Valks 2,375]

19 hours ago, alleraz said:

I simply dont think simming is taking into account that the 4 set applies razorice cause every frost dk I sim SS ALWAYS preforms lower.

I think the only real way to see if SS does better if you just use the old fashion way and pound on a dummie.

It does take it into account - a sim I just did:

It puts SS 15K ahead.

[alleraz 11]

8 hours ago, Blainie said:

It does take it into account - a sim I just did:

It puts SS 15K ahead.

Then why when I sim myself and a couple of friends does SS preform lower? I even changed stat weights/gear around and it STILL preforms lower. No matter what I do it preforms lower. This really isnt a question of it preforming better for some and worse for others if I alter the gear and stats on myself and the sim still says SS is worse.

I do use Ask mr robot so that could be a issue if u use something else. SImcraft seems off with my DK, saying I should be doing 100k+ less then what I actually do so I tend not to use it much.

Edited December 20, 2017 by alleraz

[Valks 2,375]

19 hours ago, alleraz said:

Then why when I sim myself and a couple of friends does SS preform lower? I even changed stat weights/gear around and it STILL preforms lower. No matter what I do it preforms lower. This really isnt a question of it preforming better for some and worse for others if I alter the gear and stats on myself and the sim still says SS is worse.

I do use Ask mr robot so that could be a issue if u use something else. SImcraft seems off with my DK, saying I should be doing 100k+ less then what I actually do so I tend not to use it much.

I personally use Raidbots/SimCraft - I just used AMR to test with the same character and, despite the actual DPS numbers being far lower, this is what I got as a comparison:

With SS: 1728139 DPS

With RA: 1705899 DPS

It seems like it's taking it into account as well, so maybe it really is just that the characters you're using aren't able to use SS. 

For reference, the DK is item level 956 with Toravon/Koltira, T21 4-piece, T20 2-piece. 

[alleraz 11]

13 hours ago, Blainie said:

I personally use Raidbots/SimCraft - I just used AMR to test with the same character and, despite the actual DPS numbers being far lower, this is what I got as a comparison:

With SS: 1728139 DPS

With RA: 1705899 DPS

It seems like it's taking it into account as well, so maybe it really is just that the characters you're using aren't able to use SS. 

For reference, the DK is item level 956 with Toravon/Koltira, T21 4-piece, T20 2-piece. 

I used raidbot and with the belt/bracer 4 set 21 and 2 set 20 SS and RA do about the same. Doesnt really make sense why it scoress about the same or lower when I change gear and stats though.

as for differences between AMR and Raidbot both say I should be doing about 1.74 mill at my 951 ilvl (I dont have the 4 set yet) 

Edited December 22, 2017 by alleraz

[Valks 2,375]

5 minutes ago, alleraz said:

I used raidbot and with the belt/bracer 4 set 21 and 2 set 20 SS and RA do about the same. Doesnt really make sense why it scoress about the same or lower when I change gear and stats though.

as for differences between AMR and Raidbot both say I should be doing about 1.74 mill at my 951 ilvl (I dont have the 4 set yet) 

What's your Haste level? Maybe it's not high enough to proc RI enough to warrant using SS. Not sure what else could be causing it.

[alleraz 11]

15 hours ago, Blainie said:

What's your Haste level? Maybe it's not high enough to proc RI enough to warrant using SS. Not sure what else could be causing it.

Well I just got the 4 set last night and simming myself using raidbot with it says SS should be doing about 6k more dps than RA while AMR says ill be doing about 10k less. My haste is at 33% though testing out stat weights on raidbot says haste should be my number 1 stat (which it is).