Legion MM Hunter Focus Starved

[Agns 1]

First post here so please be kind?

I'm a reasonably experienced Hunter playing MM in the Legion PP, no experience with the beta so if the answer to this question is that it all gets sorted out when you hit 110 then so be it.  Have selected talents for raiding according to Azortharion's guide on this site including Sidewinders as my level 100 talent.  Gear is pretty much all Mythic and has all been gemmed and enchanted to MA>HA>VER>CRIT and I have been through my older items to get rid of crit based armour in favour of items stacking Mastery & Haste.

Have tried this spec on dummies and briefly in a small test raid last night with my guild.  What I am finding is that I am pretty much constantly focus starved.  Rotation is pretty simple, I'm using sidewinders each time they are available, once at a time every 10 sec or so (or sooner for the second use to rebuild focus) and that generates 50 focus each use.  Trouble is, even with L&L procs, my other abilities (Barrage, Marked & Aimed) are using up all the focus so that for a part of the rotation I am not able to follow ABC as there simply isn't anything that I can cast due to lack of focus or Sidewinders being on CD.

What am I missing here?  I'm thinking at this level I should probably spec out of Sidewinders to get back Arcane/MS which would allow me to generate focus more easily but most of everything I read suggests Sidewinders are the way to go even at this stage?

Can't see much in any forums about this so maybe it's me being stupid or overlooking something that I should understand.  Any help is appreciated.

[Azortharion 60]

The rotation has downtime. It is not possible to play the spec without downtime. The 4pc set bonus exacerbates the issue by making Aimed Shot instant, so the perceived downtime is even greater.

[Agns 1]

OK, thanks for the quick reply - I guess as gear changes and the 4PC bonus is lost it will become a less noticeable problem and I will probably be complaining about having to wait +/- 2 sec to cast Aimed Shot whilst not moving!  I find it completely counter intuitive to not be casting though

[Julianbkeates 1]

You will feel like that. I feels unnatural not to do anything. But marksman damage is still strong despite the downtime. Just do try to save sidewinders a little bit to make sure you're casting it with a marking targets proc or you lose a lot of potential damage.
 

[Agns 1]

Yes, thanks for the advice Julian, I am doing that.

 

I was considering giving BM a go - any recent opinions on how the results stack up atm?

[Alben 0]

New Hunter also here,

so i do not want to open another topic always more or less about the same thing.

My doubt is that after i get a Marking taget proc and fire Sidewinders  i feel like the fist thing to do is to

fire an aimed shot instead of a Marked shot, because doing otherwise makes me feel like i'm wasting the first "vulnerable" window

coming from the sidewinders (that marked shot refreshes ofc).

Is it generally correct to do so or am i supposed to fire marked shot as first thing after sidewinders anyway?

Both scenario end up focustarved, expecially opening up with barrage, so that's why i have chosen this topic to ask.

Of course i'm not talking about a Precision or LnL usage/proc, just standard ST rotation-wise.

Last but not least, when i can expect new guides including artifact will be available, you mighty theorycrafters?

I'm so franzied about knowing how the new Windburst and (no more) T18 mobility aimedshot-wise will impact on our playstyle.

Thank you for any feedback.

 

[Agns 1]

I have been thinking about this question as well Alben and I am not sure of the answer either.  On the one side, Marked shot is a powerful hit but, as you say, you effectively 'waste' 4-5s of vulnerable if you use it straight after sidewinders instead of waiting for the first buff to almost expire.  I think on balance, if you have some focus available to you, and especially if you have a LnL proc, it might be better to spend the free aimed shots and maybe a barrage whilst you wait for the first vulnerable debuff to cycle down and then refresh it at 1 sec left.  I could be completely wrong - doubtless someone will correct me if I am!

[Niix 169]

I'm going to go somewhat into depth here about the intricacies of the MM rotation because I can guarantee you're doing a few things wrong.

 

1. You don't cast Aimed Shot outside of Vulnerable phases for any reason other than to avoid focus cap.

2. You don't cast Sidewinders outside of Marking Targets procs for any reason other than to avoid charge cap.

3. You do not immediately cast Marked Shot after you use Sidewinders. Just because it's glowing does not mean it should be shot immediately. Only exception being that you need to shoot it fast to make sure it hits multiple targets who are low HP.

4. Sitting and waiting is key.

 

Ok, so some tips.

After you use Sidewinders, let your focus pool before you cast Marked Shot, this will give you more focus to work with during the Vulnerable phase and if you get a Lock and Load proc you won't be forced to waste it or feel rushed to use all the charges.

An example of this, is casting Sidewinders at 30 focus, leaving you with 80, instead of casting Marked and leaving you with 50, which is one Aimed Shot immediately, and then one more at the tail end of the Vulnerable phase. You should opt to let your focus pool up, ideally hitting cap before you Marked Shot, that way you leave yourself with 120 focus after Marked Shot, which guarantees you 3 Aimed Shots in the second vulnerable.

Example two. You cast Sidewinders and Immediately hit focus cap. Cast one(1) Aimed Shot and sit and wait until you either hit cap again, or your Vulnerable is about to fall off, REMEMBER it's imperative that your Marked Shot hits the boss while Vulnerable is still up, so right as Vuln is gonna fall off, cast your Marked Shot, this leaves you with the scenario above, 3 guaranteed Aimed Shots, but you also got an extra one right before casting Marked Shot.

You can see how proper patience can increase your damage dramatically. The difference between going into Vuln phases with no focus and going in with full focus is enormous. Literally 200% more Aimed Shots.

Just because you have the focus to do something doesn't necessarily mean you have to at that moment. The difference in total Vulnerable uptime from waiting until the end of the first 6s buff, is very very important. You don't want to turn a possible 12s (2 Vulnerables in a row, one from the Sidewinders and one from the Marked Shot) Vulnerable phase into just 7.5s (1.5s global between Sidewinders and Marked Shot, and then the full 6s duration from Marked Shot.)

 

Make sure you're playing patiently and trying to avoid casting Aimed Shot outside of the Vulnerable phase as much as physically possible, don't be afraid to cast a sidewinders and wait a few seconds to give yourself time for your focus to regenerate a little bit, Use Marked to extend your Vulnerable uptime, don't forget that Sidewinders applies the same debuff, use it.

[Bonse 2]

 

3 minutes ago, Niix said:

Make sure you're playing patiently and trying to avoid casting Aimed Shot outside of the Vulnerable phase as much as physically possible, don't be afraid to cast a sidewinders and wait a few seconds to give yourself time for your focus to regenerate a little bit, Use Marked to extend your Vulnerable uptime, don't forget that Sidewinders applies the same debuff, use it.

Wait, you mean we can't just button mash anymore?  And we have to stand still like the rest of the ranged players......  Sarcasm aside, that really breaks it down and helps with the understanding.  Thanks Niix.

[Eloosive 0]

3 hours ago, Niix said:

An example of this, is casting Sidewinders at 30 focus, leaving you with 80, instead of casting Marked and leaving you with 50, which is one Aimed Shot immediately, and then one more at the tail end of the Vulnerable phase. You should opt to let your focus pool up, ideally hitting cap before you Marked Shot, that way you leave yourself with 120 focus after Marked Shot, which guarantees you 3 Aimed Shots in the second vulnerable.

I'm having an issue here. On the test dummy I AimS to about 30 focus, cast a buffed SW and pool til almost cap, with just under 2 secs of vuln left I cast MS. From this point I can't get a full 3 AimS's in the 6 second window, even though my AimS cast time says 1.77 secs. As soon as I cast MS I'm spamming AimS and still can't get the third one down range before my vuln window drops off. It's not a focus issue, it's the time frame. Is there a haste breakpoint I need or something?

[Niix 169]

8 hours ago, Eloosive said:

I'm having an issue here. On the test dummy I AimS to about 30 focus, cast a buffed SW and pool til almost cap, with just under 2 secs of vuln left I cast MS. From this point I can't get a full 3 AimS's in the 6 second window, even though my AimS cast time says 1.77 secs. As soon as I cast MS I'm spamming AimS and still can't get the third one down range before my vuln window drops off. It's not a focus issue, it's the time frame. Is there a haste breakpoint I need or something?

It's the cast time, my scenario assumes you have 4p, if you don't, you need to spread them out further, so do one Aimed Shot in the first window to compensate.

[Eloosive 0]

On 8/23/2016 at 10:04 PM, Niix said:

It's the cast time, my scenario assumes you have 4p, if you don't, you need to spread them out further, so do one Aimed Shot in the first window to compensate.

Aha...since I don't PvE I do not have the 4pc bonus. Thought I was going crazy trying to squeeze 3 shots in that window. Ok so now at @30 focus with MT proc I cast SW, then 1 AimS, pool til 1.5 secs on Vuln, MS, then 2x AimS in second Vuln window, correct? I've been doing this with no issues on the test dummy. If this is correct, what's the advantage of doing it your initially explained way instead of like this? Still getting 3 buffed AimS's in the same 2 windows, right?

[Agns 1]

Thanks for the advice Niix, will give it all a go!