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Havoc Demon Hunter 7.3

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Just started digging into havoc this evening. The suggested rotations are a bit off i think. Considering chaos blades and fel barrage are now on the same tier ?

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Guest Kosy
3 hours ago, ragnarisxx said:

Just started digging into havoc this evening. The suggested rotations are a bit off i think. Considering chaos blades and fel barrage are now on the same tier ?

They were on the same tier from Legion release X_x

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Guest Kubin

If Throw Glaive hits harder than Fel Rush in Single Target, why is it taking priority?  We don't have Fury Generation from FR anymore so wouldn't a higher base damage just = higher priority?

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20 hours ago, Guest Asziel said:

Due to the sinergy between Felblade and Demon's Bite, wouldn't it be necessary to have both in the talent tree to make the option viable (meaning you either take Felblade or Demon Blades, never both)?

If you take Demon Blades, your auto attacks will have a chance to reset Felblade.

20 hours ago, Guest Asziel said:

Also, Chaos Cleave hits and additional 10% (not 25% as stated in the guide). Comparing it to First Blood, which one is better in single target situation? I'm still a little confused at this tier when facing single and multiple targets.

This was updated to account for the change from the notes. FB is better in single target, Chaos Cleave is better for AoE.

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20 hours ago, Guest Varamar said:

I find hard to believe that in 7.1.5 our best relic are the ones who give 5 % more damage to throw glaive, now that bloodlet is not picked and instead we're gonna be using first blood, our best relics should be chaos strike critical damage.

 

This has since been updated to the actual 7.1.5 best relics. 

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19 hours ago, Guest Æzrien said:

2 questions about 7.1.5 if you guys know currently

1. with momentum build being nerfed to the ground (speaking of st) and felblade being our go to for st now, assuming that the individual is using the recommended set up for dungs and raids (as seen in 2.2 on the talent page) does that make felrush obsolete and not worth casting (outside of using it to get in and out of areas depending on the circumstances?

Need to double check this.

19 hours ago, Guest Æzrien said:

2. with chaos cleave being nerfed to 10% instead of 25% (according to live as im typing this) would that move firstblood into being a better pick for aoe fights (since the synergy with balanced blades will buff it slightly more)? and along the same lines of thinking, could that also bump bloodlet back into being viable for st?

This was taken into account, but was simply a consistency error essentially. FB remains as the strongest ST talent, Chaos Cleave is best for AoE and general use in raids.

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13 hours ago, Guest Khaotix said:

id just like to point out a mistake on 2.3 apparently demonic is a lvl 99 talent and 110. :)

Will pass this on and get it fixed, thanks!

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10 hours ago, ragnarisxx said:

Just started digging into havoc this evening. The suggested rotations are a bit off i think. Considering chaos blades and fel barrage are now on the same tier ?

The rotation is correct, it is simply intended for you to skip that ability if you haven't taken it as a talent.

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1 hour ago, Guest Kubin said:

If Throw Glaive hits harder than Fel Rush in Single Target, why is it taking priority?  We don't have Fury Generation from FR anymore so wouldn't a higher base damage just = higher priority?

I'm going to double check this with Wordup, will let you know.

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Guest MoneyMitch

This guide needs an update they nerfed chaos cleave from 25% to 10%w

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9 hours ago, Guest MoneyMitch said:

This guide needs an update they nerfed chaos cleave from 25% to 10%w

This was updated 2 days ago already in the guide. From the changelog:

Quote
  • 10 Jan. 2017: Updated a large number of sections to reflect the changes in builds with the Chaos Cleave reduction to 10% and Demon Blades down to 60%. Added in Demonic recommendation.

Thanks for your comment anyway.

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Guest Kosy
19 hours ago, Guest Kubin said:

If Throw Glaive hits harder than Fel Rush in Single Target, why is it taking priority?  We don't have Fury Generation from FR anymore so wouldn't a higher base damage just = higher priority?

Fel Rush is chaos damage not reduced by armor, TG is physical and reduced by armor. You can spend some time on target dummy hitting with FR and TG only and then check Avg damage for both abilities. 

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47 minutes ago, Guest Kosy said:

Fel Rush is chaos damage not reduced by armor, TG is physical and reduced by armor. You can spend some time on target dummy hitting with FR and TG only and then check Avg damage for both abilities. 

Thanks for that Kosy!

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On 1/10/2017 at 8:56 PM, Guest Æzrien said:

1. with momentum build being nerfed to the ground (speaking of st) and felblade being our go to for st now, assuming that the individual is using the recommended set up for dungs and raids (as seen in 2.2 on the talent page) does that make felrush obsolete and not worth casting (outside of using it to get in and out of areas depending on the circumstances?

Asked Wordup, he said that it is definitely still worth casting with the priority listed in the rotation.

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Guest Kubin
18 hours ago, Guest Kosy said:

Fel Rush is chaos damage not reduced by armor, TG is physical and reduced by armor. You can spend some time on target dummy hitting with FR and TG only and then check Avg damage for both abilities. 

I did this, TG is indeed hitting harder.  Also, if you look at top parses for i.e. Guarm or Ursoc, they use TG much more than FR, if they use FR at all.  Are we sure this outlined rotation is correct? I'm just not seeing the point in casting something or watching the charges on it if it doesn't generate any fury and doesn't activate momentum anymore.

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4 hours ago, Guest Kubin said:

I did this, TG is indeed hitting harder.  Also, if you look at top parses for i.e. Guarm or Ursoc, they use TG much more than FR, if they use FR at all.  Are we sure this outlined rotation is correct? I'm just not seeing the point in casting something or watching the charges on it if it doesn't generate any fury and doesn't activate momentum anymore.

Just tested in game, my FR hits for about 5-10% more damage and triggers a GCD that is so much faster than with TG. Here's Wordup's quote on it:

Quote

Yes - 0.5sec GCD for high damage is worth the Damage-per-cast-time

The fact that the damage is so close and the GCD difference is so large means FR is definitely a higher prio.

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Guest Kosy
7 hours ago, Guest Kubin said:

I did this, TG is indeed hitting harder.  Also, if you look at top parses for i.e. Guarm or Ursoc, they use TG much more than FR, if they use FR at all.  Are we sure this outlined rotation is correct? I'm just not seeing the point in casting something or watching the charges on it if it doesn't generate any fury and doesn't activate momentum anymore.

Do you have a TG damage relics? Because I don't and my FR hitting harder that TG too.

BUT, last night I have considered to prioritize TG higher than FR on Guarm encounter. Why - because after FR use you are frequently out of boss hit box losing AA and possible demonic blades proc + fury gain.

Compared 2  similar fights on dummy and discovered the following: with TG higher in priority had 148AA/81 dblades 2800 fury generated, with FR higher in priority and same fight length had 132AA/67 dblades procs 2500 regen.

Could be bad luck / bad positioning though...

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22 minutes ago, Guest Kosy said:

Could be bad luck / bad positioning though...

I think this is actually due to too much practice with Momentum, tbh. Let's take the example of missing an AA with Momentum taken - it wouldn't matter to miss 1 since the bonus damage from Momentum would allow you to do more than if you hadn't rushed and instead just stayed there AAing. 

Now, you are actively and negatively impacting your rotation if you do mess up the Fel Rush, even slightly. It's basically that FR is now actually punishing if you mess it up, whereas it didn't matter previously since the Momentum buff was still worth it.

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Guest Kubin
10 hours ago, Guest Kosy said:

Do you have a TG damage relics? Because I don't and my FR hitting harder that TG too.

BUT, last night I have considered to prioritize TG higher than FR on Guarm encounter. Why - because after FR use you are frequently out of boss hit box losing AA and possible demonic blades proc + fury gain.

Compared 2  similar fights on dummy and discovered the following: with TG higher in priority had 148AA/81 dblades 2800 fury generated, with FR higher in priority and same fight length had 132AA/67 dblades procs 2500 regen.

Could be bad luck / bad positioning though...

This makes sense, I agree that played perfectly FR is probably higher priority.  Another thing that definitely encourages TG > FR on Guarm: it's probably used to DPS while he is rushing around since ~most~ parses aren't going to try to actively chase him around while he's charging.  

But the thing I am questioning now (and sorry about all the fact-checking, just trying to wrap my head around it): is it really second highest priority to make sure fel rush is constantly recharging?  Even higher than a First Blood Blade Dance or Chaos Strike?  That just seems wrong.  I feel like Fel Rush should maybe be used when you have nothing else to do, but I agree it should take prio over TG.

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Guest Rezark

demon blades is a Passive skill .. replaces demon's Bite which is an active attack skill.

you say it is for auto attacks .. I use all skills, if an auto gets in there all the better but i do not wait for it 

however I do not play havoc much 

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10 hours ago, Guest Kubin said:

I feel like Fel Rush should maybe be used when you have nothing else to do, but I agree it should take prio over TG.

It's due to the fact that the GCD triggered by it is extremely fast and it basically adds to that burst in the first few seconds of the opening rotation. You can also use Meta to re-position yourself after the rush.

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32 minutes ago, Guest Rezark said:

demon blades is a Passive skill .. replaces demon's Bite which is an active attack skill.

you say it is for auto attacks .. I use all skills, if an auto gets in there all the better but i do not wait for it 

however I do not play havoc much 

I'm not sure what your question is?

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Guest Cheers

are you sure youre stats are right? amr got different numbers

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Just now, Guest Cheers said:

are you sure youre stats are right? amr got different numbers

Everything on SimC generated points to the stats listed here, which has been far better maintained through the 7.1.5 cycle.

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I'm not really sure where I should post this because I'm very new, but there is a typo in the Havoc guide.

On the Rotation, Cooldowns, and Abilities page, there is a typo under Tier 19 Set Bonuses:
"The 4-piece bonus enhances Chaos Strike even further, increasing the frequency of refinds" (should probably be "refunds")

Also, just pointing it out, maybe the creator just hasn't gotten around to it, maybe they hadn't noticed, but some of the information in Rotations, Cooldowns, and Abilities is a bit outdated. It states that Blur refunds (or maybe it refinds) Fel Rush charges, and that Demon Blades is a 65% chance on hit.

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