Vladamyr 169 Report post Posted May 28, 2013 Has anyone played around with different AOE rotations since the patch? I'm finding that blizzard seems to be doing pretty well and is comparable to Arcane Explosion now (for me.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted May 28, 2013 I know for sure that Flamestrike is still a must-be-casted spell on CD for aoe. I haven't experienced with them, I haven't thought about this question yet, but now you made me to do the maths... Arcane explosion Causes an explosion of arcane magic around the caster, causing 483 to 522 (+ 55% of SpellPower) Arcane damage to all targets within 10 yards. Lets have a Spell Power of 35000. The avarage of 483 and 522 is 502,5. 502,5+35000*0,55=19752,5 Arcane explosion has an 1,5 sec GCD, and since Blizzard has a 8 second base cast time, we divide 8 with 1,5 which is 5,333333. So, we will be able to cast 5 Arcane explosions under 8 seconds. 19752,5*5=98762,5 Blizzard Ice shards pelt the target area doing (336 ( + 36.7% of SpellPower) * 8) Frost damage over 8 sec and slowing enemies by 50%. 336+35000*0,367=13181 for one second. 13181*8=105448 for 8 seconds. Meaning that, if we don't take any other effects of the spell into account Blizzard itself pulls ahead. However, Blizzard has a chance of granting Fingers of Frost for Frost mages, which is a pretty good cleave as we know so spending 1-2 casts might worth it. BUT, for channelling Blizzard we have to stay in one spot as well as the mobs have to be stationary as well. Making this spell very situational. As for Arcane explosion, you can move around freely while spamming, and the mobs don't have to be stacked up, especially with glyph of Arcane Explosion. Also, it applies Arcane Charges for Arcane mages letting them cast Arcana Barrage from time to time. Consequently, I'd say when you can and have the possibility, use Blizzard. Otherwise, Arcane Explosion will grant you more freedom, while fore arcane mages Arcane explosion will almost always be better. If I missed anything, please let me know! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladamyr 169 Report post Posted May 28, 2013 Agreed. Do some testing (and check my maths) when you get some time Oltier on Flamestrike. I was actually seeing a dps loss when weaving it in between blizzards. That was very limitied testing and I need a ton more samples to draw any real conclusions, but wanted your input. Flamestrike - 2 sec cast Calls down a pillar of fire, burning all enemies within the area for [ 475 + 51.8% of Spell Power ] Fire damage and an additional [ 496 + 13.5% of Spell Power ] Fire damage over 8 sec. Initial: 475+(35,000*0.518) = 18,605 Dot: 496+(35,000*0.135) = 5,221 For a total of 23,826 (if all adds stay in the dot area) per 2 second cast = 11,913 dps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted May 28, 2013 I'll take an example of 64 seconds long period. If we only cast Blizzard (not consuming FoF etc, only pure Blizzard) that means, we will have 105448*8=843584 damage done. If we add Flamestrike to the rotation: WARNING! Wall of Maths! 2 seconds: 18605 DD For the next 8 seconds we will channel Blizzard, plus the additional ticks from Flamestrike. 10 seconds: 18605+105448+5221=129274 Now, because Flamestrike has a 12 seconds CD we should probably spend our FoF charges but because we ignore this, we will channel one more Blizzard. 18 seconds: 129274+105448=234722 DD From here, the cycle will repeat. Flamestrike, 2 Blizzards. 3*18=54. So we will jump to 54th second. 54 seconds: 3*234722=704166 Opening with flamestrike: 56 seconds: 704166+18605=722771 DD We have time for one more Blizzard 64 seconds: 722771+828219=828219 Blizzard only: 843,584 DD Blizzard with Flamestrike: 828,219 DD Meaning that it is indeed a DPS loss, to cast Flamestrike over Channelling Blizzard only. I will try to configure Simcraft tho to simulate these situations to get a better view. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted May 28, 2013 Sorry for double post, but this requires a seperate comment. So I ran some simcrafts in connection with our topic, on 5 targets 600 seconds long patchwerk fight, with all debuffs on the target, without heroism stormlash and skull banner, with invocation talent. Basically, with my character, so this in fact include some RNG trinket etc procs. http://eu.battle.net...Oltier/advanced But all in all these numbers should provide us with enough information. Spamming Blizzard only: # Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only. actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew actions.precombat+=/arcane_brilliance actions.precombat+=/frost_armor actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/evocation # Executed every time the actor is available. actions+=/evocation,if=(buff.invokers_energy.down|mana.pct<20) actions+=/blizzard DPS: 164773 Blizzard with Flamestrike: # Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only. actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew actions.precombat+=/arcane_brilliance actions.precombat+=/frost_armor actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/evocation # Executed every time the actor is available. actions+=/evocation,if=(buff.invokers_energy.down|mana.pct<20) actions+=/flamestrike actions+=/blizzard DPS: 176540 Spamming Arcane explosion only (same action list, just swap blizzard with AE) DPS: 146753 AE with Flamestrike: DPS: 160787 So all in all, spamming the best aoe spell is Blizzard combined with Flamestrike by far. (If we are talking about Arcane explosion, Blizzard and Flamestrike only) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladamyr 169 Report post Posted July 5, 2013 I have tried the maths and in game testing quite a bit on both of these and I simply find that Blizzard (both mathematically and in practice) out performs Flamestrike+Blizzard. I can simply find no logical reason or maths to show why Flamestrike would improve dps. I am wondering if perhaps Simcraft is not taking in to account recasting Blizzard (interrupting and rechanneling) as soon as buff proc's occur (like trinkets,etc..)? Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladamyr 169 Report post Posted July 8, 2013 For the love of a deity, I think I finally found my error (mathematically, still not sure about logs being off but maybe just sample size). I had been using: Flamestrike - 2 sec cast Calls down a pillar of fire, burning all enemies within the area for [ 475 + 51.8% of Spell Power ] Fire damage and an additional [ 496 + 13.5% of Spell Power ] Fire damage over 8 sec. Pretty sure that should be 496 + 54% of Spell Power. G.D. WowDB F(#$*&*^&^! me again. That solves tons! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted July 8, 2013 lol, silly Mages. To do AoE, go to the character creation sheet, create a Warlock, level to 90, and have some fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waramaur 1 Report post Posted July 23, 2013 lol, silly Mages. To do AoE, go to the character creation sheet, create a Warlock, level to 90, and have some fun. yeah, locks are the kings of AoE I'm glad I came across this thread, I was wondering the math behind FS and Blizz. I was in an argument with another mage about this recently, I'll just refer him to here, thanks! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
