Noob question - other way to play subtlety?

[MrOger 20]

I`m not an experienced buildcrafter, but something bugs me while i`m looking at mastery bonus and talents. Is there other way to play subtlety - not through subterfuge and shadowstrike, but with nightstalker, stratagem, enveloping shadows and DfA (stats - mastery>crit>versatility>haste), using SD mainly to apply finishers, and how bad is it compared to usual subtlety? Right now it`s obviously not a choice because of class trinket, but if not taking trinket in mind, is it possible?

[Neshama 1]

Hi,

You can always build your talents to fit playstyle. Im not sure what you mean by "not through subterfuge and shadowstrike"

But if you mean to "skip" shadowstrike in your rotation, I think it wont be a wise idea.

You have to remeber that all guides and recomendations are baised on calculations. Its like science, pure matematics. :) Of course sometimes calculation are so close to each others that you can use different builds.

Second,  Shadowstike is made as one of the main damaging abilites by desing. It is meant to be used.

But, of course you can choose talents as you like. As you prefer and what fits you more.

Nightstalker give 50% more damage for abilites. Deeper Stratgem boots finishers by 10%. Envelope Shadows builds more combo points. I see your idea.

Questions are: Will you have enough energy regeneration to fit finishers in Shadow Dance window and benefit from all talents. And will it generates at least the same amount of damage as other builds.

Try it, compere it.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Neshama

[Carrn 284]

Skipping Shadowstrike entirely won't yield very good results

You can play however you like, but as the guy above me said, talent choices and builds are run through simulators to find out which one is best and that is what we recommend.

As a point of note, Vers is very very strong for Sub and you probably want to rework your stat priorities if you do decide to go this route.

[MrOger 20]

6 hours ago, Neshama said:

Im not sure what you mean by "not through subterfuge and shadowstrike

I meant that in usual build SD rotation is solely shadowstrikes, and it is based around it.  Theoretically i`m not totally skipping shadowstrikes, just their priority goes down compared to applying 6 cp DfA/Nightblade/Eviscerate in sd (It`s looking like Finisher - shadowtrike - shadowstrike/SD ends if DfA used)

6 hours ago, Neshama said:

You have to remeber that all guides and recomendations are baised on calculations. Its like science, pure matematics. :) Of course sometimes calculation are so close to each others that you can use different builds.

Ye, i know that. That`s why i`m asking here :D I really wonder if it can be at least comparable to usual build. The problem about testing is lack of mastery gear at my character.

6 hours ago, Neshama said:

Questions are: Will you have enough energy regeneration to fit finishers in Shadow Dance window and benefit from all talents. And will it generates at least the same amount of damage as other builds.

Energy regen is not a problem here - 5-6 cp finishers are not only "free", but also giving 15-5 energy after use. Here we are pooling not only energy, but cp too, and here helps enveloping shadows - it gives you free 5 cp, 10 energy and 18 secs of SD cd (actually it`s 33 seconds because of additional cp gain) every 30 seconds.

Damage.... Yea, that`s why i`m asking more experienced people :D.
If i understand correctly usual SD dishes out (without trinket and other usual buffs that you have anyway (like symbols)) (assuming you have 22% versatility) :
  4148% weapon base damage + 535.1% ap + 953.2% ap.
This sd version deals (assuming that you have 70% of additional mastery):
Nightblade as finisher
  1904% weapon base damage + 245.6% ap + 2065.2% ap (i think there can be additional dps gain if as part of "long" opening sequence you pandemic it over non-sd with 1-2 cp)
DfA as finisher
  952% weapon base damage + 122.8% ap + 183.3% ap aoe + 2212.7% ap
Eviscerate as finisher
  1904% weapon base damage + 245.6% ap + 1652.1% ap.

Is these numbers somewhat correct? I`m just finding some fun in this and wanna know how much i suck at it :P
By the way - does versatility and mastery stack additively or versatility multiplicate mastery/mastery multiplicate versatility?
 

8 hours ago, Neshama said:

Nightstalker give 50% more damage for abilites.

Nope, only 12%.

7 hours ago, Carrn said:

As a point of note, Vers is very very strong for Sub and you probably want to rework your stat priorities if you do decide to go this route.

Er... Doesn`t build says that without trinket mastery is slightly ahead? And with this build it`s cost should skyrocket i guess?

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, MrOger said:

Is these numbers somewhat correct? I`m just finding some fun in this and wanna know how much i suck at it :P
By the way - does versatility and mastery stack additively or versatility multiplicate mastery/mastery multiplicate versatility?

I think everything applies then Vers applies. So your finisher will deal 30% more damage then 10% more of that number.

That said, the difference in using either talent over Master of Shadows is  a pretty significant DPS drop