Demo Warlock questions

[Darthsoul 3]

First off I'd like to say thank you to Zagam and Gahhda for all the time they've put into these forums and helping others. I read from Gahdda that you never want to use Molten Core procs outside of DS ( I'm assuming if your capping out you burn excess before you cap). Is this still correct? Also during DS meta do you pop out to drop 2x HoG and pop back in or do you let your two charges sit while you nuke? My last question is this, should I be doing very close to what simcraft is telling me I should do with it set at elite player skill or is this a high number or ?????

[gahhda 95]

soulfire > touch of chaos

refresh corruption manually outside of meta

if you're already in meta and dumping (ds/int proc/lots of DF/whatever), and corruption is falling, use ToC to refresh

I tend to drop it, double hog, then go back in. Who the hell knows if thats the right thing to do though, demo is an enigma.

[Darthsoul 3]

And as far as simcraft is that a number to be strived for? Or is it something I should be beating I know with the rppm trinkets things are very rngish so it's not gonna be a flat value but I'm not hitting that number and just would like to know if my rotation needs to be worked on or that's a high number.

[Vestion 8]

soulfire > touch of chaos

refresh corruption manually outside of meta

if you're already in meta and dumping (ds/int proc/lots of DF/whatever), and corruption is falling, use ToC to refresh

I tend to drop it, double hog, then go back in. Who the hell knows if thats the right thing to do though, demo is an enigma.

Can I ask what is your reasoning for refreshing corruption outside meta? Its a GCD and using ToC also gets more damage off. Im just looking at the negatives here, but I dont really see the positives.

I think its also worth mentioning that it probably isnt worth using soulfire in meta if your have very low DF, such as sub 200.

[Omaric 246]

Can I ask what is your reasoning for refreshing corruption outside meta? Its a GCD and using ToC also gets more damage off. Im just looking at the negatives here, but I dont really see the positives.

I think its also worth mentioning that it probably isnt worth using soulfire in meta if your have very low DF, such as sub 200.

The point of using Soulfire in Meta is taking advantage of big buffs like trinkets, Dark Soul, pots and fight specific buffs. If I'm under 200 but still have Dark Soul rolling, then yes I'm going to keep spamming that bastard. :)

[lonelynumber 0]

Hi all,

I just want to clear up a few things I don't really understand. Should I save my molten core procs for meta? What about if I get a trinket proc like relic or the like? Do I just sit in regular form and use my core procs if I don't have enough fury? Also, when you extend a dot using touch of chaos, does it reapply it? Or simply extends the duration of the previous dot. I ask this because If I get a trinket proc, I'm wondering if I have to go back to caster form, reapply corruption, and then go back to demon form.

Thanks!

EDIT: One more! Is there any specific time Grimoire of Service is stronger? Does it scale with anything?

Edited June 3, 2013 by lonelynumber

[Zagam 1,982]

You're going to cap on your Molten Core charges if you save them solely for Metamorphosis. Remember, it generates 40 (44 with 4pc) Demonic Fury per cast in caster form.

Relic trinket proc is hardly worth noting anymore. It's a measly 3k Intellect when most procs we're dealing with now are in the 8000 mark.

You only extend Corruption via Touch of Chaos, no other DoT. It reapplies it based on current values, which is why you really can't worry about maintaining a proc because you're likely going to overwrite it with another Touch of Chaos. Corruption's damage is insignificant, and you really only care about the DF gains from it.

Grimoire of Service is often used when linked up with Dark Soul (both have a 2 minute CD). So you can time both of these for an added effect. Personally, I find having one less thing to manage nice, so in most situations with AoE, I take Grim of Supremacy. Grimoire of Service scales with everything just like your permanent pets do.

[JvChequer 43]

Zagam,

In Single target fights as Jinrohk, Durumu, Megaera, Iron Qon, do u use Service, Supremacy or Sacrifice?

Because, IMO we should use Sacrifice for ST and Service for AOE, but I'm not certain about Sacrifice x others in AOE fights.

[Zagam 1,982]

I'm testing full Haste/Sacrifice on all fights this week. Since it'll be the best for Lei Shen and Ra-den (only two I got left), I'm considering all other fights on farm status (except for Dark Animus, but I wasn't really part of the learning curve for this fight as Affliction).

[Darthsoul 3]

My dmg is still not hitting the marks I think it should. I tried both sac and service here are some logs if you see anything bad going on. http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bdyz7102weupy7pk/

[Zagam 1,982]

Iron Qon Heroic: 10:01

-you did not use a Doomguard.

-Doom crit rate was 52/88 = 59%. This is pretty low considering you got 5 Perfect Aim procs. Work on making sure that your 100% Crit Doom is always up.

-why is there a Chaos Wave in your logs? Chaos Wave should be used for burst AoE. If you timed it for when the Quillen came together in P4, Shadowflame would have resulted in much higher damage and Demonic Fury generation.

-your Metamorphosis uptime was only 36.3%. This is rather low...work on your Demonic Fury generation or limit the ways you spend it on Soulfire.

-your Molten Core uptime was 97.6% leading me to believe you sat at a 10 stack of Molten Core or just never used your charges.

-only 4 Dark Soul uses. At the 10:01 kill mark, it should have JUST come off cooldown for a 6th use. You COMPLETELY missed a Dark Soul use somewhere in there. This is a huge DPS opportunity.

Compare your spell usage to mine: http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=3248&e=3791

By comparison directly to my log from 3 weeks ago, I had the following changes from yours:

-used a Doomguard

-Doom crit rate was 67/89 =75.2%. I got 15 more Crits than you which is 15 more Imps which is lots more damage, lots more Demonic Fury, and lots more Metamorphosis uptime.

-I fat fingered Hellfire twice. Ignore that.

-Touch of Chaos was a much higher source of damage for me than for you. Somehow, Doom ended up being your top attack.

Your average Soulfire was much higher than mine. You either only used Soulfire during procs or just had some monster Soulfires. Overall, you got the job done. Just small tweaks to your gameplay will result in a 30-40k DPS increase.

Your other two fights are normal, but you can follow the same advice. If you look at my logs, Twins shows as normal, but it's Heroic so you can't do a direct comparison.

[Darthsoul 3]

Thank you for your help. I'm guessing my avg soulfire is higher because I was using them all during Meta which might be a lot of my DF generation problem.

[Zagam 1,982]

No, there are two sections of Soulfire in WoL, one in caster form (generates 40 fury in tooltip) and one in Meta form (costs 40 fury in tooltip). Both of yours were higher. Regardless, glad to help.

[Omaric 246]

No, there are two sections of Soulfire in WoL, one in caster form (generates 40 fury in tooltip) and one in Meta form (costs 40 fury in tooltip). Both of yours were higher. Regardless, glad to help.

Supremacy vs Sacrifice. ;)

Edited June 4, 2013 by Omaric

[Zagam 1,982]

SHUT UP WITH YOUR REASON AND LOGIC.

I need to retire and crown you champion of the forums for forgetting something so stupidly explainable.

[Omaric 246]

Lol, I just thought it was funny. Carry on master warlock.

[Jenaye 9]

lol

[Calenthaurin 1]

"

-your Metamorphosis uptime was only 36.3%. This is rather low...work on your Demonic Fury generation or limit the ways you spend it on Soulfire.

What would actually be the best uptime of metamorphosis?

I mean without set bonus, with only 2 set bonus and with 4 set bonus, I bet there is a pretty big difference no? (Darthsoul seems to have 2 set bonus I think, while you Zagam have 4 set bonus I think).

Personally I can get around 42% uptime (2 set bonus "only")

Just killed the twins yesterday in normal (first time, I missed the other kill) and I did about 145k dps (ilvl425).

Is that "correct" or is it rather low?

(Calenthaurin, Eu-Earthen ring) - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tm3lh8r4ql36a03g/details/13/?s=2594&e=3072

[Zagam 1,982]

Demonology is very proc dependent. Your DPS was fine. Make sure you're double DoT'ing when Suen comes out for her AoE ability during P1.

Metamorphosis uptime is proc dependent, too. More Imps = more Demonic Fury = higher Metamorphosis uptime. It looks as if you prioritize Soulfire over Touch of Chaos in Metamorphosis regardless of procs. I'm not sure this is optimal. Soulfire should be prioritized when Dark Soul is up so that with the 2pc, it costs only 28 Demonic Fury instead of the full 40 making it much better damage per point of Demonic Fury. If your item level is 525 (not 425), then I think prioritizing Touch of Chaos over Soulfire when you don't have procs running will boost your DPS up 10-15k on a fight like that.

[Darthsoul 3]

So after looking at what you said I'm still a little unsure of exactly what I should be doing. Should I be saving MC procs until I can DS unless I'm going to cap or should I be using them outside of meta since I seem to be on the low side of DF. Also I'm curious if you think part of my DF generation problem is the lack of having the legendary meta or just poor play while out of meta such as not using MC procs to generate fury? I was very heavy haste in the fights you looked at which should help with DF building but I constantly seem to fall behind on it.

[Omaric 246]

So after looking at what you said I'm still a little unsure of exactly what I should be doing. Should I be saving MC procs until I can DS unless I'm going to cap or should I be using them outside of meta since I seem to be on the low side of DF. Also I'm curious if you think part of my DF generation problem is the lack of having the legendary meta or just poor play while out of meta such as not using MC procs to generate fury? I was very heavy haste in the fights you looked at which should help with DF building but I constantly seem to fall behind on it.

Here's how I look at my MC stacks and use Soulfire:

8+ stacks, low DF, no procs - Soulfire in caster form

8+ stacks, low DF, some procs - Soulfire in caster form

8+ stacks, low DF, some or no procs + Dark Soul - FAIL!

8+ stacks, average+ DF, no procs - Soulfire in caster form

Any # of MC stacks, average+ DF, some procs - Consider Meta (ie. Wush at 6+ stacks)

Any # of MC stacks, average+ DF, some or no procs + Dark Soul - Meta form and go to town

Basically though, if you are going to cap MC charges, then it doesn't hurt to cast Soulfire in caster form. Your overall goal is to produce as much DF as possible so that you can take advantage of your MC procs in Meta form.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Omaric

[Darthsoul 3]

Cool thank you for the information Omaric appreciate it.

I also was curious is demo even close to destro on heroic horridon? I haven't tried it but destro seems very easy to do 240k + dps on and I can't see demo keeping that kind of numbers but I also play demo fairly poorly I'm quite sure. But if it is close I would like to just stick with demo as much as possible as I know staying demo as much as possible will help my play of it.

[Omaric 246]

Demo on Horridon is all about luck and getting UVoLS to proc at the right times along with getting the pink dino to spawn on you early. The pink dino gives you another target that lasts the entire fight to be a crit Doom sponge. If UVoLS procs when the bigger mobs spawn at each door you will see huge gains. Always slap a Doom on any target that is going to live for a little bit. Door 4 has been different for our group as we hyper focus the bears and shaman, which allows me to slap Dooms on pretty much everything else.

The last couple of weeks I've been pulling 300k, but that's with pretty sloppy play. Demo really shines when a bunch of mobs are up at once. You're able to maintain high single-target burn on the kill target while passively doing AoE damage through HoG, fel/wrathguard and Immolation Aura.

All that said, Demo has the potential to parse higher than Destruction if played right. Destruction is just a bit easier to get a handle on and those Havoc Shadowburns are amazing to finish off mobs. Destruction is *so* good at cleaning up on Horridon.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Omaric