Totem Shaman Standard

[Arkpit 101]

I've played 12 games in a row now with the deck and while it is quite fun to play I just don't see how it's labeled "Legendary".

I've won 5 of the 12 games at rank 12-13 and the biggest issue seem to be that most decks today have a boardclear in the midgame which completely destroys you and no hope of coming back.

Brawl, Flamestrike, +1 Lightning storm, equality+conc. equality+pyro, etc.

Against any of the above it feels like there is 0 chance and against another shaman no matter the pick it's usually a 50/50 and all luck-based on the cards you manage to draw. 

It's such a fun deck and I had my hopes up to play this a lot but it just doesn't feel strong enough to get much higher than 10 with the meta of today :/

[positiv2 952]

40 minutes ago, Arkpit said:

I've played 12 games in a row now with the deck and while it is quite fun to play I just don't see how it's labeled "Legendary".

I've won 5 of the 12 games at rank 12-13 and the biggest issue seem to be that most decks today have a boardclear in the midgame which completely destroys you and no hope of coming back.

Brawl, Flamestrike, +1 Lightning storm, equality+conc. equality+pyro, etc.

Against any of the above it feels like there is 0 chance and against another shaman no matter the pick it's usually a 50/50 and all luck-based on the cards you manage to draw. 

It's such a fun deck and I had my hopes up to play this a lot but it just doesn't feel strong enough to get much higher than 10 with the meta of today :/

Totem shaman should be played differently from regular midrange or aggro shamans. Did you read the strategy?

The deck can reach legend, as it is favoured against currently popular decks, such as Hybrid Hunter, Token Druid or Tempo Mage. Yes, you are unfavoured against patron warriors, midrange shamans and n'zoth paladins, but you still have enough good matchups to carry you past rank 10. If you find yourself to be playing against those deck way too often though, you might want to switch to a different deck, such as Malygos Druid or Control Warrior.

[Keizoku 185]

12 hours ago, Arkpit said:

I've played 12 games in a row now with the deck and while it is quite fun to play I just don't see how it's labeled "Legendary".

I've won 5 of the 12 games at rank 12-13 and the biggest issue seem to be that most decks today have a boardclear in the midgame which completely destroys you and no hope of coming back.

Brawl, Flamestrike, +1 Lightning storm, equality+conc. equality+pyro, etc.

Against any of the above it feels like there is 0 chance and against another shaman no matter the pick it's usually a 50/50 and all luck-based on the cards you manage to draw. 

It's such a fun deck and I had my hopes up to play this a lot but it just doesn't feel strong enough to get much higher than 10 with the meta of today :/

If boardclears are your problem, then it means you are overcomitting/comitting to the board too soon. I've enjoyed successes against N'Zoth paladin decks myself despite the double Wild Pyromancer/Equality and Tirion Fordring trying to wall me out. The trick is to lure those out with limited but annoying board states (a bit of luck with Barnes doesn't hurt, but even then, just a Flametongue Totem between a Healing Totem and another totem you summon will force them to spend more resources than just summoning a recruit each turn to deal with them.) Only when those are gone do you start deploying the heavy hitters and grow a board they simply cannot answer anymore. Same goes for Brawl and Execute. Lure them out with small minions and tokens you can ultimately miss (along with one Wicked Witchdoctor if needed) and only commit your Thunder Bluff Valiant to the board when it's relatively safe to do so. 

You can also tech in one Acidic Swamp Ooze (Or, should you have him, Harrison Jones, although he might be overkill) if you encounter a lot of those decks. Just be greedy with them. It's the Gorehowl that threatens your valiants you want to deal with, not the early Fiery War Axe.

The worst match-up for this deck is Freeze Mage, that will ever remain a problem for any minion-oriented deck. There's no going around that. Frost Nova + Ice Block turn 8, Alexstrasza turn 9 and "Orbital Bombardment" turn 10 is something this deck simply cannot deal with. If he has the right cards in hand, you're dead. You could try teching in an Eater of Secrets, but he'll just need to stall a bit more. And stalling is something Freeze Mage excels at.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Keizoku
Kezan Mystic rotated out of standard, as Paracel remarks just below.

[Paracel 165]

5 minutes ago, Keizoku said:

 You could try teching in a Kezan Mystic

Eater of Secrets.

Freeze Mage can also have a really bad draw and you'll beat him down with a surprise Bloodlust or something. It's really lopsided but not 100-0%.

[Refusenik 0]

I've managed to get this deck to rank 5 this month (my previous best was 11 - yes, feel free to laugh).

I'm taking the upcoming nerfs personally. It might be a while before I see a single-figure rank again...

[Paracel 165]

I wouldn't hop off the train that fast. Totem might very well be the weapon of choice for the new Shaman.

[Paracel 165]

Talk me through how Argent Squire is still in the deck when Rockbiter Weapon is nerfed, and why there is no Lightning Bolt?

Edit : I'm going to talk myself through this in a post below. This is my opinion and reasoning for the change and that's it.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Paracel

[Paracel 165]

I'm here with mostly positive feedback on the deck. Sky didn't fall as nearly as it should, and Shaman seems to be doing fine without Tuskarr. Managed to maintain a pretty good result, win streaking through 3 or 4 ranks, only to be stopped by a warship full of Pirate Warrior boarding crew. 

On guide : Card Swaps section mentions Bloodmage Thalnos as a possible inclusion. However, he is included in the maindeck after changes already. This may be confusing.

On deck's positioning :

Spoiler

It's a really solid ladder choice. Decks that can pressure you and attack totems are weak to your interaction tools, and slower fair decks can't pressure you well enough, so you can capitalize and press the attack. Turning totems into threats makes up for a lot of virtual card advantage, so it's not really easy to outgrind you, but there is an issue of playing a slow game yourself. This can matter in lieu of growing popularity of Malygos decks, but you can beat them by drawing Bloodlust first. I admit not yet testing "updated" Classic Midrange Shaman builds, so I can't really compare them, but this one is good. Mind that it has no autopilot, so you might actually have to think and play with your cards, not just play your cards.

Yeah, and I really wanted to play 2 Lightning Storm. Ended up cutting one Totemic Might. Still not sure if this is a great idea.

On Argent Squire and Lightning Bolt:

Spoiler

Both cards are reasonably good, Squire makes a good Primal Fusion target and is generally functional against Aggro, while Bolt is an excellent scaling removal against Midrange decks. Without Squire, my openers felt pretty inconsistent and considerably slow. However, what struck me is the question "is this really what I'd want to be doing here?" It's not like I can do a whole lot of pressure with Squire, and I already have very good spells against Aggro decks - Claws, Portals, etc. - while the presence of Lightning Bolt in mid-game felt really good and filled a very important niche I had to fill. Ultimately it comes down to what field you are playing against, but I feel that meta is pretty midrange-ey and Bolt just gives you a better strategical, take-all-comers, edge that's so key to any Midrange deck, thus I advocate running it over Squire. 

Tips And Tricks Of The Trade, or Stuff I'm Catching Myself Not Doing :

• Wicked Witchdoctor usage - yes, it is said in the guide, and I'll go over it again : she summons a Totem after you cast the spell but before it resolves. It not only affects Maelstrom Portal 20% of the time, but also Primal Fusion, instantly. Keep that in mind when counting.
• Totem Golem is a Totem. I'm serious. He seems to evade my Primal Fusion math over and over again.
• More about Primal Fusion(and partially Totemic Might) - these are really powerful cards. You have to be creative using it. Because of the way your deck is built, you may notice a lack of early pressure. Fusion changes it. Even two humble totems can give you a reasonable Injured Kvaldir-sized body, that can hit things and trade effeciently. Don't forget you're still technically spending one card to do it all! Managing Fusion is especially important if you skip on Squire and play Lightning Bolt. I feel that Fusion management is the most skill-intensive thing here. Totemic Might is hard to use but in general, you either value up with Witchdoctor, or buff up 'Valianted board, or try to protect your Mana Tide and Flametongue. It's harder to mess up.
• Have a mind map of Barnes hits. Your best one is Thunder Bluff Valiant, but you should always be ready for other hits. All of them. All the time.
• Maelstrom Portal - there are, like, 43 1-drops you can hit, so your chances are approximately 2%. I'm not asking you to remember all of them (like I do) but there are a couple of notorious criminals that you should keep an eye out for : Stonetusk Boar has Charge, don't miss it; and then Mana Wyrm and Arcane Anomaly - make sure you sequence your spells right and cast Portal first. 

[PalioDeMonte 1]

I'm not sure about dropping the Tuskarr Totemic here. I mean, with this Deck I want to produce Totems, so this is another use of my heropower with an additional 3/2 body for only 1 additional Mana. It still seems strong to me here.

[Refusenik 0]

Thanks for those thoughts, Paracel. I haven't returned to this deck since the nerf, instead going with a discard lock to move up the lower ranks. I don't have enough dust yet for Thalnos, does anyone have a suggestion for a decent substitution?

[Paracel 165]

Guess what, yes, it's Kobold Geomancer.

[buttons 0]

I have been playing this deck for a few weeks now and i cannot get past 12.  I confess, i do commit too early and get wrecked by brawl, equality, etc, etc -- im playing 1 mana tide, 1 primal fusion -- but i kept the two 3/2 tuskgar guys -- i dont have legendarys either.

I dont especially like barnes, the tuskgar guys need more health -- 3/2 is killed by everything all the time without getting much of any production from them. -- i almost feel like dropping them for spirit wolves so i have some board control / protection for my important pieces.

I took out a tuskgar and added a primal fusion.  11 now, im thinking about dropping the last tuskgar for a spirt wolves.  slightly increase the chance for barnes to get something useful. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by buttons

[Valks 2,375]

15 hours ago, buttons said:

I have been playing this deck for a few weeks now and i cannot get past 12.  I confess, i do commit too early and get wrecked by brawl, equality, etc, etc -- im playing 1 mana tide, 1 primal fusion -- but i kept the two 3/2 tuskgar guys -- i dont have legendarys either.

I dont especially like barnes, the tuskgar guys need more health -- 3/2 is killed by everything all the time without getting much of any production from them. -- i almost feel like dropping them for spirit wolves so i have some board control / protection for my important pieces.

I took out a tuskgar and added a primal fusion.  11 now, im thinking about dropping the last tuskgar for a spirt wolves.  slightly increase the chance for barnes to get something useful. 

It looks like Tuskarr was taken out a while ago, so I imagine you might have missed the updates to the deck? Check out the new list, it seems to perform much better.

[Keizoku 185]

While on the subject of updates, I see Sottle sneaked Ragnaros the Firelord in there. Considering I don't have "Mr. Always Goes Face!" I was wondering what to replace him with. My limited collection has only put forth two candidates so far: Mr. Stupid and Smokin' Hawt Zombie Lady, but neither seem to be too good a fit. Leeroy is a finisher in a deck that doesn't really need one. Sylvanas might get your opponent on the back foot and allow you to seize the initiative again which is good, but praying for the Banshee Queen to solve your problems goes against the goal of the deck to dominate the board from the get-go.

Any other (preferably non-legendary) suggestions, or should I just stick with my second Argent Squire?

Edited October 26, 2016 by Keizoku

[positiv2 952]

4 minutes ago, Keizoku said:

While on the subject of updates, I see Sottle sneaked Ragnaros the Firelord in there. Considering I don't have "Mr. Always Goes Face!" I was wondering what to replace him with. My limited collection has only put forth two candidates so far: Mr. Stupid and Smokin' Hawt Zombie Lady, but neither seem to be too good a fit. Leeroy is a finisher in a deck that doesn't really need one. Sylvanas might get your opponent on the back foot and allow you to seize the initiative again which is good, but praying for the Banshee Queen to solve your problems goes against the goal of the deck to dominate the board from the get-go.

Any other (preferably non-legendary) suggestions, or should I just stick with my second Argent Squire?

Draenei Totemcarver or Sylvanas Windrunner are alright. I'd say the optimal swap depends on your matchups and what you feel comfortable running.

[buttons 0]

8 hours ago, Blainie said:

It looks like Tuskarr was taken out a while ago, so I imagine you might have missed the updates to the deck? Check out the new list, it seems to perform much better.

I saw the updates but i dont have legendary cards.  In place of those I run every fin is awesome and tuskgar (all creatures +2/+2) and had good success with that making my board full of totems useful.  I also only run one mana tide totem -- a great card but rarely lives past 1 turn for me.  Things from below never live either.  

[positiv2 952]

20 hours ago, buttons said:

I saw the updates but i dont have legendary cards.  In place of those I run every fin is awesome and tuskgar (all creatures +2/+2) and had good success with that making my board full of totems useful.  I also only run one mana tide totem -- a great card but rarely lives past 1 turn for me.  Things from below never live either.  

Everyfin is Awesome is a really bad card without murlocs in the deck. Draenei Totemcarver is a much better card to be run instead.

[Keizoku 185]

On 26/10/2016 at 10:37 AM, positiv2 said:

Draenei Totemcarver or Sylvanas Windrunner are alright. I'd say the optimal swap depends on your matchups and what you feel comfortable running.

I'll go with Sylvanas Windrunner. I played a bit yesterday, tried both. Of the three times I actually drew Sylvanas she sat dead in my hand twice until the end because I didn't need her, but the only time I actually played her she opened the way for my Bloodlust bumrush and won me the game. Totemcarver was unmemorable.

[Guest OstrichCorpse]

Got to Rank 5 with altered version of this deck (my previous best was Rank 10, so it's something). Decided to run a bit more aggressive by not using Azure Drakes and stripping Argent Squires in favor of Lightning Bolts (more cheap spells to fill the table with Wicked Witchdoctor or simply a good removal considering an amount of Spell Damage occasionally apearing on the board). Also put in a second copy of a Bloodlust (found myself with a full board of 0-attack minions too often) and didn't regret it once - works as a charm. The only questionable thing I still have in the deck is one Tuskarr Totemic - should probably replace it with Draenei Totemcarver and see what happens. Ragnaros the Firelord is a powerful thing, but I don't have a BrM adventure and weren't going to buy it since it expires in 2 months anyway.

[Valks 2,375]

9 hours ago, Guest OstrichCorpse said:

Got to Rank 5 with altered version of this deck (my previous best was Rank 10, so it's something). Decided to run a bit more aggressive by not using Azure Drakes and stripping Argent Squires in favor of Lightning Bolts (more cheap spells to fill the table with Wicked Witchdoctor or simply a good removal considering an amount of Spell Damage occasionally apearing on the board). Also put in a second copy of a Bloodlust (found myself with a full board of 0-attack minions too often) and didn't regret it once - works as a charm. The only questionable thing I still have in the deck is one Tuskarr Totemic - should probably replace it with Draenei Totemcarver and see what happens. Ragnaros the Firelord is a powerful thing, but I don't have a BrM adventure and weren't going to buy it since it expires in 2 months anyway.

Glad to see that you've found a version which is working for you.

For Ragnaros, isn't he a classic legendary?

[sovereign110 0]

I've been successfully using this deck as well....I recently came back to the game after a roughly 1-year hiatus, shaman has always been my favorite hero to play, so I built the totem deck.

I climbed from rank 25-13 in a matter of a few hours.  Currently I'm hovering around rank 11-12....some games go very well, some go really bad lol.  I haven't played enough to really identify the sorts of matchups I have trouble with....I suppose I should pay attention to that moreso.  Deck's hella-fun to play though!

[Valks 2,375]

10 hours ago, sovereign110 said:

I've been successfully using this deck as well....I recently came back to the game after a roughly 1-year hiatus, shaman has always been my favorite hero to play, so I built the totem deck.

Glad to hear you're having fun and doing well! If you do identify what you are struggling with, just let us know and we can do our best to help you out!

[sovereign110 0]

15 hours ago, Blainie said:

Glad to hear you're having fun and doing well! If you do identify what you are struggling with, just let us know and we can do our best to help you out!

Well after having played a bunch more, I think I've identified some things.

I guess as an obvious disclaimer, apparently everyone on the planet knows exactly what this deck is.  My biggest troubles come from these super-efficient warlock, hunter, rogue, and druid decks that can always clear my totems with zero difficulty......and they do so every single time.  I always feel helpless during these matches, since they have to expend no resources to keep my board clear, so when I play more siginificant minions like the witch doctors/valiants they always seem to have answers for them immediately, and I even make sure not to play these cards unless I'm able to take advantage of their abilities on the same turn.

Usually I can hold them off via my control spells until the mid-to-later parts of the game, but at that point I'm sitting on a weak board state (and relatively useless Bloodlusts because of it) and am poorly equipped to deal with their massive tempo advantage or late-game bombs.  I often find it difficult to get real advantage out of Primal Fusion or the valiants since I'm usually only allowed to have 1-2 totems active, at most, at any given time.  The only real instances I've noticed myself being able to keep enough totems around to be able to get a win condition going, is if I'm able to spam 0-1 cost spells after witchdoctor is summoned, and one of those spells is Totemic Might to make the totems more difficult to kill with anything other than mid-late game minions.

One of my biggest grievances is that I'm often desperately trying to find sources of Spell Damage.  Maelstrom Portal's removal is quite weak without buffs to its spell damage, and Spirit Claws is nearly meaningless without it.  Thalnos is great to rely on to provide spell damage at a point of my choosing, but other than that it's rough.

Here's some things I'm thinking about changing.  I switched out Azure Drakes earlier on, but I'm probably gonna put them back in for the spell damage capability (with Barnes too of course!).  I'm gonna go down from 2 bloodlusts to 1, and I'm thinking of going from 2 primal fusions to 1.  I'd like to go up to 2 Lightning Storms, but with my current thinking there's just no room I can make for it.

I know this all isn't entirely specific, I guess you'd have to spectate some of my matches to get a feel for what I'm saying, but those've kinda been the thoughts running through my head about the deck the past couple days.  Any comments on anything I've mentioned?

[positiv2 952]

@sovereign110From what I read you are playing the deck correctly. The missing Azure Drake is surely an issue and should be returned to the deck. If you are looking for a consistent option to get spell power in the early game, especially in a combo with Spirit Claws, I recommend you to try adding Kobold Geomancer in place of one Mana Tide Totem or Totemic Might (or possibly a different card you feel is underperforming). 

19 hours ago, sovereign110 said:

I know this all isn't entirely specific, I guess you'd have to spectate some of my matches to get a feel for what I'm saying

You could also send us a replay (or more of them, of course). This will allow us to analyze your plays and give you a summarization of your playstyle.

Good luck!

[Mirgata 0]

Can i swap bloodmage thalnos with kobold geomancer?.  

Edited December 5, 2016 by Mirgata