Unholy VS Frost PvE

[Hjorth 0]

So, I've read that Unholy is better, i'm wondering how much better Unholy is than Frost, since i enjoy playing Frost a lot more than i do Unholy, i wanna know if that's possible without shooting my self in the foot

Edited August 30, 2016 by Hjorth

[demonardvark 556]

22 hours ago, Hjorth said:

So, I've read that Unholy is better, i'm wondering how much better Unholy is than Frost, since i enjoy playing Frost a lot more than i do Unholy, i wanna know if that's possible without shooting my self in the foot

View it kind of like how you view the mage class. Every patch one spec is better than the others however, all three are usually the top of the leaderboards, this is kind of the same situation. Frost is by all means a very strong spec, it does very well in a number of different situations. It's merely that unholy does it better. Also unholy has a little bit more flair with all its toys. You are far from shooting yourself in the foot choosing frost. Frost is still a strong spec its just over shadowed by unholy. So, its a fine choice.

also as far as "this class does more dps, or this spec does more dps"  frankly it doesn't matter for 99% of the playerbase. Unless you are pushing mythic progression (which statistically most player aren't) it really doesn't matter what you play, this is game, we are here to have fun, pick whichever spec you prefer. heck even in smaller servers they don't care about comp because its hard enough to find dedicated players.

tldr, unholy > frost but frost still a fine choice.

also we don't know what tuning will happen pre emerald dream, unholy could get nerf bagged into oblivion, no one knows.

[Lyshnek 1]

I started out putting all my artifact power into Apocalypse, and just need the exploding ghouls trait now. But I learned that I like frost just as much, if not more, and just finished up Frozen Skin at level 108. I really want to be able to play both specs, don't plan on doing raiding minus lfr/normal raids. I guess I'm asking if I could keep my frost/uh artifacts balanced enough to where I can switch between them whenever. Sorry for the long post and if this isn't the right place to post. Thanks for any tips/advice.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Lyshnek

[demonardvark 556]

1 hour ago, Lyshnek said:

I started out putting all my artifact power into Apocalypse, and just need the exploding ghouls trait now. But I learned that I like frost just as much, if not more, and just finished up Frozen Skin at level 108. I really want to be able to play both specs, don't plan on doing raiding minus lfr/normal raids. I guess I'm asking if I could keep my frost/uh artifacts balanced enough to where I can switch between them whenever. Sorry for the long post and if this isn't the right place to post. Thanks for any tips/advice.

it depends how much time you want to put into the game but short answer is yes. you can keep them rather comparable to each other and later on they are adding "Catch up" mechanics to help facilitate players coming to the expansion late and or people playing with multiple artifacts. in the early stages of the game thought, i might recommend pouring resources more to one than the other just so you have a stronger spec. view it almost as one being competitive and one being for fun.

so for example im blood/unholy. however, unholy is my main focus, i've put almost nothing into maw of the damned, however, i am able to tank just fine. so certainly for lfr, you could run in there with a brand new artifact and be fine, lfr is easy mode and is designed to be exceedingly friendly, however, for normal you would want one thats a little stronger. so i might recommend something like a 3-1 ratio (or something similar maybe less, 2-1). for every 300 ap you put into one, put 100-200 in the other. 

tldr; you are fine leveling both and playing both specs,  but invest a little heavier in one of the two, just in case you need to meet dps checks in normal

[Lyshnek 1]

11 minutes ago, demonardvark said:

 

Thank you very much for the advice. I am having a hard time deciding between frost and unholy, I always loved both. Frost is definitely easier for me, it just seems there is a decent amount of downtime with no runes/runic power during boss fights. But I am assuming that is from lack of gear/me playing bad :P. Also, one last question. I enjoy Clawing Shadows much more than Castigator, but does anyone happen to know how big of a dps difference there is between the two? I know that the stat priority changes if you use CS.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Lyshnek

[demonardvark 556]

2 hours ago, Lyshnek said:

Thank you very much for the advice. I am having a hard time deciding between frost and unholy, I always loved both. Frost is definitely easier for me, it just seems there is a decent amount of downtime with no runes/runic power during boss fights. But I am assuming that is from lack of gear/me playing bad :P. Also, one last question. I enjoy Clawing Shadows much more than Castigator, but does anyone happen to know how big of a dps difference there is between the two? I know that the stat priority changes if you use CS.

depending on how you are using frost you can end up without resources. if you find this is happening a lot talent into frozen pulse, you do damage when you are empty of runes.

what's currently being said is that while leveling CS and castigator are very close, however, at max level and with higher gear castigator pulls miles ahead. between castigator, high crit, and a specific legendary, you are basically shattering boils constantly. plus castigator has good synergy with other talents, with PP you will have high rune regeneration with it, so while the CS buff makes it powerful while leveling, it cannot compete with castigator :) 

[Lyshnek 1]

1 hour ago, demonardvark said:

depending on how you are using frost you can end up without resources. if you find this is happening a lot talent into frozen pulse, you do damage when you are empty of runes.

what's currently being said is that while leveling CS and castigator are very close, however, at max level and with higher gear castigator pulls miles ahead. between castigator, high crit, and a specific legendary, you are basically shattering boils constantly. plus castigator has good synergy with other talents, with PP you will have high rune regeneration with it, so while the CS buff makes it powerful while leveling, it cannot compete with castigator :) 

Yeah I just went with the machine gun talent build as frost because I figured I might as well. I use Epidemic instead of PP, what talents would you recommend for doing dungeons mostly? Heroic or Mythic, then eventually raiding. Just got Scourge of Worlds following Icy Veins artifact path for Unholy.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Lyshnek

[tenmillion 1]

Hey, there. Just started using this forum and wanted to offer a short-story about these 2 competing specs. I posted this in a thread earlier on reddit.

 

I leveled as frost from 100-110, I loved frost, and felt like unholy was confusing and clunky. I was 110 within the first 36 hours of launch.

Fast forward a day and I am 820 item level looking to do mythic dungeons. Since mythic dungeons are as good as it gets with "progression", i felt obligated to start learning unholy.

So I switch to unholy to pump out the top tier damage, which it definitely does! It took me awhile to get used to, having to track buffs and debuffs more carefully...

Then inside Black Rook Hold, on the 2nd(maybe 3rd?) boss trash pulls, where the archers and mages are that channel that AoE shit, my group couldn't kill the mobs quick enough. This is on mythic version, where standing in the smallest amount of AoE with bad gear will 1 or 2-shot you.

 

Our group is lacking any type of CC and stun, so I switch to my frost spec that I have mastered. I do my remorseless winter with the stun talent and use my breath of sindragosa artifact ability, and we wipe the floor with the mobs that are stunned for 6 seconds because of my aoe stun.

I hope you read this far for my story, as I was in the same boat as you. I eventually conformed to Unholy, and even now in the most try-hard of settings you can be this early in the expansion, it is never a bad idea to keep an open-mind to keeping up to date with multiple specs, to get the best out of every situation you find yourself in.

 

[Shells 64]

I like UH, leveled as blood as it was miles easier to sustain myself against multiple mobs but I find UH a bit squishy for solo content. The DPS is very solid but if Im fighting multiple mobs I can explode easily enough. 

I dont see any sustain from its talents from a quick view and even using DS doesn't seem to cut it very well at all. Now, my artifact has 4-5 points in it so far so its hardly optimal and my gear is not amazing, 810 and rising so hardly optimized yet. 

Might be better with some practice. 

[demonardvark 556]

On 9/5/2016 at 5:52 AM, Shells said:

I like UH, leveled as blood as it was miles easier to sustain myself against multiple mobs but I find UH a bit squishy for solo content. The DPS is very solid but if Im fighting multiple mobs I can explode easily enough. 

I dont see any sustain from its talents from a quick view and even using DS doesn't seem to cut it very well at all. Now, my artifact has 4-5 points in it so far so its hardly optimal and my gear is not amazing, 810 and rising so hardly optimized yet. 

Might be better with some practice. 

In general it seems a lot of self healing has been reduced for non healer or tank specs. My pally's flash heal takes 50% of my mana bar. For unholy, I end up using my RP dump on death strike a lot of the time instead of death coil. Same with frost. I've gotten to the point where if I am tackling a strong add (ie elite or boss) I switch to blood just for the survival. You can spec into a higher dps version of blood and it will take longer to burn the boss, but if alone, you can get the job done. Soloing more elite enemies as unholy or frost has become burst the crap out of it, and hope I did enough damage to kill it before it kills me.