Demonology Haste Percent to work Toward

[Meffykat 0]

Is there a specific number (percentage) I should be working toward in the Haste category as demonology?  I checked for haste caps on google with demo but found only very outdated posts.  Enjoying the spec but shards just don't seem to come quick enough.  I am at 13% right now, but of course I only just hit 110 today, so I am not beating myself up, just antsy.

[Saurohn 0]

I am 110, and geared to about 850, and Haste is ~22.9%.  You can get some help from enchanting and depending on your gear, sockets & Gems. I have heard that 40% is possible for an end game raider fully geared, but just remember that haste makes Demonology Ramp Up that much shorter and is considered the most important enhancement as you begin to evaluate your gear drops. Good Luck 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Saurohn

[spikeysquad 50]

I've heard some say at 40% it becomes less valuable where as others say keep going until 100%! I'm still at 34% though and feel like I still want more. If you can get yourself a crafted ring/and or neck with heavy haste on. That will help a lot and my crafted ring (fully upgraded to 855) is better than a couple of 880s that I have seen.

[Swagsurfer 1]

Same thing for Destro? At what point does crit become better? I mean we are stacking haste to get more ticks on immolate right? 

[spikeysquad 50]

For Destro haste increases shard regen, decreases cast times and more Immolate ticks also mean more damage. Crit also increases shard regen and naturally damage. 

There seems to be some debate over stats. Some say haste is always the best stat while some say slow it down a lot once you get to the 28-30% point and do not hard stack anymore.  

Either way the stats for Destro are so much closer in numbers so often item level seems to win out (for me anyhow) and I will usually equip the highest unless it's say Vers and Mastery.  

Personally I am at 34% haste and I don't have any plans to consciously stop getting more until Eradication is nearing 100% or I just feel that my shard regen is too high and I keep wasting too many shards. 

So not an answer but I do not know and it is hard finding one that does not cause a lot of varying answers. 

[Genu 0]

Well, there is no cap to aim for, but i have found slightly above 33% (~33.27%) to be a sweetspot  where the casting times and the GCD's align well with cooldown of shadowflame, which means i don't start casting demonbolt only to interrupt it after half a second to refresh shadowflame. It feels more smooth this way, but that didn't have a drastical effect on dps. I'm currently at 37%, it has remained the best increase of damage.

However, haste will be the best stat if there are no changes to come, not for the mentioned reduction of rampup time, but due to the fact that you profit from reducing the time spend to cast demonic empowerement that provides a higher count of damaging casts as well as maintaining a higher count of demons while firing Demonbolt or Thal'kiels consumption.

It is correct, that the value from haste becomes slightly less as you amass more, but this is a result of skewing the ratio between haste and other stats, as other stats benefit from that additional haste. There is still a long way to go before you need to worry about other stats being more useful than haste. What i can tell you from my personal test Sims up to Nighthold gear is, that you won't surpass the haste threshhold with Nighthold.

So it looks like we're stuck leaning heavily into haste for at least the next 6-8 Month. But i do think thats okay, as the Spec really feels much smoother with every point of haste. Even the AoE and shard generation from Demon Wrath becomes better and you start to actually be able to get casts through in lower Mythic+.

[Fedie 0]

On 2016-11-04 at 6:30 PM, spikeysquad said:

I've heard some say at 40% it becomes less valuable where as others say keep going until 100%! I'm still at 34% though and feel like I still want more. If you can get yourself a crafted ring/and or neck with heavy haste on. That will help a lot and my crafted ring (fully upgraded to 855) is better than a couple of 880s that I have seen.

 

I hit 38% on my destro on 840-850 gear, my simulcraft are showing better dps as I scale down haste and increase crit. I would like to hear some perfect target % advise. I'll I'm doing right know is swapping gear and running simulations 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Fedie
typo

[spikeysquad 50]

13 hours ago, Fedie said:

I hit 38% on my destro on 840-850 gear, my simulcraft are showing better dps as I scale down haste and increase crit. I would like to hear some perfect target % advise. I'll I'm doing right know is swapping gear and running simulations 

38% haste with 840-850 gear? That's pretty insane and suggests you are very haste heavy and other stats are relatively very low. To a point it's a balancing act. At the moment you have good shard regen and nice fast spells. However, as you are lower on the other stats your spells do not hit very hard and it makes sense to me that crit (and others) are higher.  My current Destro gear set has 34% haste though I would like some more crit as I think it is a little low at 18% but oh well I can only wear what I am given.

There's no perfect target numbers as we don't really have any soft caps (though yes many people say there is a place where Destro starts to feel much nicer to play but we are way past that). Like SimC says right now for the short term indeed I believe that crit would probably boost you more than haste.

For the longer term the weights posted in the lock Discord channel should keep people on a good path (unless they get lots of weird gear) overall as they are based on multiple fight types and gear sets. They have actually just been updated. No major changes. Only the secondary stats are valued slightly higher now compared to Intellect and it may mean item level does not win out quite as much.

So again not an answer but I have still not found one that people agree on. Keep simming if that is something you like to do and see where it takes you. 

[Fedie 0]

8 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

38% haste with 840-850 gear? That's pretty insane and suggests you are very haste heavy and other stats are relatively very low. To a point it's a balancing act. At the moment you have good shard regen and nice fast spells. However, as you are lower on the other stats your spells do not hit very hard and it makes sense to me that crit (and others) are higher.  My current Destro gear set has 34% haste though I would like some more crit as I think it is a little low at 18% but oh well I can only wear what I am given.

1

Thanks for the pointers.  I know this might of look like thread hijack but the intention was to show how DPS varies with stat swapping, I'm sure it can be applicable to demo.

I'm already posting on the destro thread and this was just pure example.  38% haste with 850-50 gear is achievable as the gear is very easy to come by.

# Gear Summary

# gear_ilvl=846.20

# gear_stamina=18987

# gear_intellect=21346

# gear_crit_rating=3491

# gear_haste_rating=12529

# gear_mastery_rating=1699

# gear_versatility_rating=827

# gear_speed_rating=443

# gear_armor=1585

default_pet=imp

 

Getting back to the OP, im looking for the same thing.  We are all talking about balancing stats but what are we looking for really? is it 30%H 24% crit? just looking for insight on the veterans.

 

im still feel like a brand new player getting back to the game after 3-4 years and still unguilded, by choice, as i dont have as much time to invest. I do like to play the game and always want it to be a best as i could.

 

[spikeysquad 50]

Well Destro and Demo stats/gear sets are pretty similar though not identical. Using the new stats weights over on the Discord for Destro the stats are all very similar and within 0.25 of one another. Usually it doesn't matter so much what is on there if it is higher item level and hence has more stats overall.

With Demo ST 880 item level the top and bottom stat weights are 0.54 apart and this can weigh certain items a lot higher/lower than others. At 856 item level it's still 0.46 apart so still a significant gap. Haste is far more important to Demo than anything else so I often turn down item upgrades to stay with more of it. 

Generally I would suggest that people get an addon like Pawn which will calculate the relative strength of gear. Use decent stat weights though and not the ones it comes with and a bit of common sense too. 

[Genu 0]

Quote

Use decent stat weights though and not the ones it comes with and a bit of common sense too. 

You should clarify that: Use the stat weights from simulating your own character and resimulate every 2 items changed. The standard stat weights from Pawn are not for use, but to showcase how the addon works. The common sense clause does not apply here, as it is hard to grasp even with a mathematical background how scaling stats affect each other. However, combining Pawn with simulating your own character weights will bring the greatest benefit while copying stat weights from a guide will give you a decent guideline to at least make sure that items will mostly be an upgrade.

[MrFredIV 0]

I think the answer to your questions  is no. I'm 871 with 35.85% haste and the only thing I can say is that with food buff, heroism, and a chrono shard I'm at 100% haste. Which means that anything after that is a waste DURING heroism DURING chrono shard proc. Outside of that, having extra haste is still worth it since you won't have those two up the entire fight. I haven't seen any diminished returns, and if 100% haste proves anything it's that mo' haste mo' damage.

Edited November 29, 2016 by MrFredIV

[kierg10 0]

There is no such thing as a haste cap for destro or demo. just keep pumping it up until you can't get any more haste.

[Fedie 0]

On 2016-11-28 at 8:53 AM, spikeysquad said:

Well Destro and Demo stats/gear sets are pretty similar though not identical. Using the new stats weights over on the Discord for Destro the stats are all very similar and within 0.25 of one another. Usually it doesn't matter so much what is on there if it is higher item level and hence has more stats overall.

With Demo ST 880 item level the top and bottom stat weights are 0.54 apart and this can weigh certain items a lot higher/lower than others. At 856 item level it's still 0.46 apart so still a significant gap. Haste is far more important to Demo than anything else so I often turn down item upgrades to stay with more of it. 

Generally I would suggest that people get an addon like Pawn which will calculate the relative strength of gear. Use decent stat weights though and not the ones it comes with and a bit of common sense too. 

4

So based up this the stat weight changes with the ilvl, I think the obvious question is, how is the stat weight calculated? with that answer, we can theorise everything else 

[spikeysquad 50]

17 hours ago, Fedie said:

So based up this the stat weight changes with the ilvl, I think the obvious question is, how is the stat weight calculated? with that answer, we can theorise everything else 

Not quite sure what you are asking. What gear sets are used or how reforge plots etc work? For the first it will be a BIS list though without legendaries from the look of it They are not listed in the Discord but if you go to the SimulationCraft site there are Gear lists there for each item level bracket.

For reforge plots you are probably best searching and having a read around as that will be a better description than I can give. Ultimately some will also vary on the type of fight you sim. Single target patchwerk Destro will be rather different to AoE and/or cleave with high movement.