Fatigue Control Warrior Standard

[Guest Boogi]

On ‎20‎-‎9‎-‎2016 at 8:51 AM, Nyro said:

I am just cutting my losses on this deck honestly. I feel it is trash and I have better luck with much cheaper decks. It may work at higher levels but climbing with this thing is painful. There is not near enough removal to match any decent aggro deck no matter what anyone says here.

I have the same experience. Against very agressive decks it's an almost certain loss. Which is ironical for a "control" deck.

[CodeRazor 47]

5 hours ago, Guest Boogi said:

I have the same experience. Against very agressive decks it's an almost certain loss. Which is ironical for a "control" deck.

Then you are doing something wrong while playing the deck.

If you can it would be nice to provide some replays of you playing the deck so that we can help you out.

I play this deck on ladder, around rank 5 and have 22-5 with it. My only losses where from a couple of priests (which were missplays by me), 1 malygos rogue who had a pretty awesome hand, 1 tempo mage and 2 midrange hunters who naturally destroy control warrior, due to the consistent pressure.

[positiv2 952]

5 hours ago, Guest Boogi said:

I have the same experience. Against very agressive decks it's an almost certain loss. Which is ironical for a "control" deck.

Control decks do not necessarily need to be favoured against aggro decks. Control warrior loses to hybrid hunters and tempo mages, N'zoth paladin loses to face shamans and hybrid hunters, patron warrior loses to tempo mages and token druids, and so on. 

What defines control deck is that they TRY to maintain the board control until the late-game. If there was a control deck that would succeed in maintaining control since early game, the deck would be instantly #1 deck in HS. 

[Guest Boogi]

13 hours ago, CodeRazor said:

Then you are doing something wrong while playing the deck.

 

I just played a rogue with all charge minions and things like eviscerate and cold blood. I was dead on turn 6.

So tell me what I did wrong?

[positiv2 952]

7 hours ago, Guest Boogi said:

I just played a rogue with all charge minions and things like eviscerate and cold blood. I was dead on turn 6.

So tell me what I did wrong?

I will be completely honest: your question is irrevocably dumb. You did not provide any details, apart from what you played against - we have absolutely no idea what you did AT ALL. 
Now, let me turn the question around: "So tell me what I did right?" As you can see, we can't tell you what you did wrong, but we can't tell you what you did right either. 

So, either provide us with details, or even better, a full replay of the match.

[mgoetze 6]

8 hours ago, Guest Boogi said:

I just played a rogue with all charge minions and things like eviscerate and cold blood. I was dead on turn 6.

So tell me what I did wrong?

You didn't necessarily do anything wrong, Rogue decks can do some pretty disgusting things if they happen to hit exactly the right draws.

[Guest JustAverage]

After playing quite some matches with it, I wonder against which opponents this deck really works.

As other people mentioned already, it usually loses against rush decks and fast midrange decks, unless you get the perfect card draw.

Against other control decks or N'zoth decks, chances are maybe equal at best, although I feel quite some other decks being slightly better.

I think for the average joe player like me, many other warrior decks are much easier and more succesful.

 

 

[KingMe 289]

25 minutes ago, Guest JustAverage said:

After playing quite some matches with it, I wonder against which opponents this deck really works.

As other people mentioned already, it usually loses against rush decks and fast midrange decks, unless you get the perfect card draw.

Against other control decks or N'zoth decks, chances are maybe equal at best, although I feel quite some other decks being slightly better.

I think for the average joe player like me, many other warrior decks are much easier and more succesful.

 

 

I would have to say this deck has a fairly high learning curve and is not for everyone. I personally am not a heavy Warrior player but when I do play him I play this one and Dragon Tempo (Depending on the meta) and find much success with it. When it comes to playing this deck it's all about anticipation and reacting accordingly. With that being said sometimes the best play is to just Hero Power and pass your turn. Once you have that mindset you start to understand the deck a little better and that's when you find  success. 

[edukki 0]

How can I replace Yogg-Saron, Hope's End? I have all the cards expect him.. I have Ysera, Ragnaros the Firelord and Cairne Bloodhoof... Maybe someone of them?

Edited September 30, 2016 by edukki

[KingMe 289]

5 minutes ago, edukki said:

How can I replace Yogg-Saron, Hope's End? I have all the cards expect him.. I have Ysera, Ragnaros the Firelord and Cairne Bloodhoof... Maybe someone of them?

Ragnaros the Firelord should work fine in his place. 

[CodeRazor 47]

4 hours ago, KingMe said:

I would have to say this deck has a fairly high learning curve and is not for everyone. I personally am not a heavy Warrior player but when I do play him I play this one and Dragon Tempo (Depending on the meta) and find much success with it. When it comes to playing this deck it's all about anticipation and reacting accordingly. With that being said sometimes the best play is to just Hero Power and pass your turn. Once you have that mindset you start to understand the deck a little better and that's when you find  success. 

Exactly this. Well said. That's why we insist on you recording your games, cause this is the only way we can actually help you learn/improve. This deck has some decisions built in it which are processed and learnt mostly by experience.

Some of the decisions i am talking about are : how and when you use your removal, when do you use your life as a resource against an aggro deck and let them build a bigger board in order to have a better Brawl, how you mulligan in a specific matchup, when do you start pushing damage yourself instead of just reacting to the enemy's board etc.

For example, using a Shield Block on turn 3 is 90% of the times wrong. Hero power is the right choice. You need that shield block in later stages of the game to pair it with a Shield Slam. There are a lot of times when on turn 4 i played Shield Block + Shield Slam to deal with a Thing from Below. If i had played it a turn earlier the chip damage pushed to my face might have left me with less armor than needed to kill my opponent's threat.

Anyway, i say all this stuff, because i cannot stand the argument that : "I am losing because the deck is bad or the deck is not legend capable". No one plays optimally a deck, and the purpose of this forum is to discuss ways and strategies, in order for everyone to improve and enjoy the game. The joy of farming shamans on ladder with this deck, having over 80% winrate against them is insane. Its not a shame asking for help.

Sorry for being a little bit aggressive on this matter, but i have been in the same position myself when i started playing this deck, and i had the same frustration. Only when a friend showed me how to play it, i got better results, and results improved over time as i gained more experience.

That is mainly the reason i insist on putting a tag on some decks, that notes that the specific deck is for experienced players, or requires a lot of experience.

@edukki : Ysera can work as well as Ragnaros the Firelord KingMe suggests. It comes down to what you prefer.

Edited September 30, 2016 by CodeRazor

[KingMe 289]

6 hours ago, CodeRazor said:

@edukki : Ysera can work as well as Ragnaros the Firelord KingMe suggests. It comes down to what you prefer.

Personally I would go with Ragnaros the Firelord but to be completely honest Ysera might be the better fit for the deck due to the resources she can give you in the later turns. 

[positiv2 952]

My opinion on the Ysera/Ragnaros the Firelord is that one should pick depending on the decks one faces. Ragnaros the Firelord against midrange, Ysera against control, different deck against aggro.

[Guest JustAverage]

On ‎30‎-‎9‎-‎2016 at 2:27 PM, CodeRazor said:

For example, using a Shield Block on turn 3 is 90% of the times wrong. Hero power is the right choice. You need that shield block in later stages of the game to pair it with a Shield Slam.

The issue with this deck is that in many matches, there is no "later stage of the game" since you are dead on turn 6.

[positiv2 952]

6 hours ago, Guest JustAverage said:

The issue with this deck is that in many matches, there is no "later stage of the game" since you are dead on turn 6.

Please provide us with a replay. I do not have major problems against aggro, let alone death on turn 6. I believe you are playing the deck suboptimally. You still haven't provided us with proof that this deck is awful against aggro.

[Abelcain 1]

As of today's yogg nerf I'm no longer finding a benefit from using him. While he used to pretty much always give a board clear by the time all spells were used he usually kills himself after buffing the other team up now.

What is a good replacement?

[Guest Runner]

I don't get why people keep defending decks like this. Sure i believe you can get to legend with it. But it's difficult to play, very depending on having the right removal card at the right moment, and gives worse results than much more straightforward decks.

You might call that "for experienced players". I call it masochistic.

[positiv2 952]

1 minute ago, Guest Runner said:

I don't get why people keep defending decks like this. Sure i believe you can get to legend with it. But it's difficult to play, very depending on having the right removal card at the right moment, and gives worse results than much more straightforward decks.

You might call that "for experienced players". I call it masochistic.

It might not be better than dragon warrior or control warrior, but if we went by straightforwardness and power, freeze mage, midrange hunter, dragon priest, renolock or totem shaman would not exist.
t's a thing of taste, and because some players might not want to play aggressive decks, which means no pirate or dragon warrior, and might be bored of control warrior. That's where fatigue warrior comes and saves the day.

[positiv2 952]

54 minutes ago, Abelcain said:

As of today's yogg nerf I'm no longer finding a benefit from using him. While he used to pretty much always give a board clear by the time all spells were used he usually kills himself after buffing the other team up now.

What is a good replacement?

Harrison Jones, Baron Geddon, Ragnaros the Firelord or Doomsayer.

[FanOfValeera 253]

One thing i did not understand about this deck, not that i play it or something, it is just expensive.

Well, as Yogg draws cards nearly all the times it is played (as far as I can see), isn't it risky to play it in a fatigue deck?

[positiv2 952]

41 minutes ago, FanOfValeera said:

One thing i did not understand about this deck, not that i play it or something, it is just expensive.

Well, as Yogg draws cards nearly all the times it is played (as far as I can see), isn't it risky to play it in a fatigue deck?

Yes, it is risky, but yogg was one of the best board clearing tools in the whole game, and was worth running for that reason. 

[Abelcain 1]

On 10/3/2016 at 5:48 AM, Guest JustAverage said:

The issue with this deck is that in many matches, there is no "later stage of the game" since you are dead on turn 6.

I'm assuming this is the same person that said they were getting killed on turn 6 by the rogue.

In that match up, rogues continuously draw in order to get eviscerates and cold bloodeds, letting them do 16 damage minimum (20 usually because they buff their 4/4 a lot of the time). To beat them all you really need to do is save removals for their auctioneer and azure drake too. If they give it stealth you can get creative and use brawl on a crowded board or even execute your own sylvanas to steal it.

 

If you're having trouble with aggro decks as well, you might be focusing too much on killing each minion they play. If they play a 3/3 and a 2/2, instead of worrying about the 5 damage and using both slam and blood ichor to kill the 3/3 I find it much easier to use slam on the 3/3 and blood ichor on the 2/2 and taking the damage in order to get both benefits. Then kill them both with an AoE next turn. Once they lose board domination- if you get the improved hero power- you will start getting more armor per turn than the damage they can dish out.

[Paracel 165]

4 hours ago, Abelcain said:

As of today's yogg nerf I'm no longer finding a benefit from using him. While he used to pretty much always give a board clear by the time all spells were used he usually kills himself after buffing the other team up now.

What is a good replacement?

Spoiler

 

I'd say Yogg is still pretty good here. Yes, nerf has hit him, but it's not like he has really changed. It's still the same red button that can save you where no other play can.

You're not putting much pressure on him anyways, like Tempo Mages do. You're still going to play all those spells because they are good. It's low on the opportunity cost.

What nerf did the most is that it made Yogg more fair, which is fairly justified, and - biggest thing - it made big Yogg'Sarons prone to failure more. You're not playing exactly a big Yogg here, so I think he is still safe to run. You have win conditions outside of him, you have removal and board clears, and well, even when you think of him as of just a DOOM! - no coincidence he is depicted on the said card - well, even then it's a good bargain.

If you still feel that RNG does not favor you anymore, consider quitting Hearthstone using some of the tech choices suggested or a big beater, like Soggoth the Slitherer. He is pretty tough and it's not like The Black Knight is a real card.

 

4 hours ago, Guest Runner said:

I don't get why people keep defending decks like this. Sure i believe you can get to legend with it. But it's difficult to play, very depending on having the right removal card at the right moment, and gives worse results than much more straightforward decks.

You might call that "for experienced players". I call it masochistic.

Spoiler

 

In return, I don't get how "difficult to play" is a bad thing when you actually know how to play it. And results are tied to you directly. Anything can have good results if you pilot it right.

We defend these decks because they are fun for us. And because they are skill intensive. There is a huge controversy around Hearthstone having nothing to do with skill, and what reactive decks do is proving in the most obvious way that skill is real and everything you do matters, and when you do wrong, you lose.

If not for such decks, the game would degenerate into really bad state of Aggro mirrors, which would reduce its diversity even further. I love me some good Aggro mirrors but in a lot of ways, they are defined by external reasons. Probably that's because of how Hearthstone combat works. 

I can get behind your frustration. But a steep learning curve always yields reward, and Control is no exception. Mistakes is how you improve as a player. I don't know if you really want to improve, but if it is so, then use them to your advantage.

 

 

3 hours ago, positiv2 said:

[...] and might be bored of control warrior. That's where fatigue warrior comes and saves the day.

It's all terminology jokes all over again, but can you really tell how Control Warrior and "Fatigue" Warrior are really two different decks and not just different builds and flavours of the same exact thing?

[positiv2 952]

4 minutes ago, Paracel said:

It's all terminology jokes all over again, but can you really tell how Control Warrior and "Fatigue" Warrior are really two different decks and not just different builds and flavours of the same exact thing?

The main difference is in pressure. Fatigue warrior puts basically no pressure until Golden Monkey, unlike control warrior that starts dropping big stuff in the late midgame. 

The word "flavour" is actually interesting, as it could be used to describe the difference - control warrior is vanilla ice-cream, whereas fatigue warrior is lemon ice-cream. They look pretty much the same, but taste differently. (Dragon warrior is a beef tenderloin, for comparison)

[Paracel 165]

Just now, positiv2 said:

The main difference is in pressure. Fatigue warrior puts basically no pressure until Golden Monkey, unlike control warrior that starts dropping big stuff in the late midgame. 

I have a record of dying to stuff that comes out of Ironforge Portal and Gorehowl face hits.

Point taken, though.

2 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

The word "flavour" is actually interesting, as it could be used to describe the difference - control warrior is vanilla ice-cream, whereas fatigue warrior is lemon ice-cream. They look pretty much the same, but taste differently. (Dragon warrior is a beef tenderloin, for comparison)

Thank God I am not a vegetarian. Aggro decks keep my stomach full. I even might have to lose some weight in the Arena gym!