Arms Rotation Confusion

[Maruken 31]

I've been playing Arms for a while now and I absolutely love it. But I'm a little confused on when I should be using Mortal Strike and Colossus Smash using the advanced Focused Rage build that the guide has listed.

When I use Colossus Smash, I proc Shattered Defenses. But when Tactician procs before I spend the SD proc (like if Tactician procs off a Focused Rage cast during the GCD after Colossus Smash), do I cast Colossus Smash or Mortal Strike? It says I should cast Colossus Smash whenever available in the guide, but to me it doesn't make much sense to waste the powerful SD proc by casting Colossus Smash.

[Carrn 284]

Short answer? Use MS first to consume the SD buff

You'll want to maximise the uptime of CS as much as possible, and using it twice in a row doesn't make sense. Additionally, CS as a skill does less damage than MS, Ovp, and even Slam, so it makes sense to extend the debuff as long as possible.

I could be wrong since I haven't leveled my Warrior yet, but that's my understanding of it anyways

[Razid 1]

3 hours ago, Carrn said:

Short answer? Use MS first to consume the SD buff

You'll want to maximise the uptime of CS as much as possible, and using it twice in a row doesn't make sense. Additionally, CS as a skill does less damage than MS, Ovp, and even Slam, so it makes sense to extend the debuff as long as possible.

I could be wrong since I haven't leveled my Warrior yet, but that's my understanding of it anyways

What you say does make sense, but that doesn't follow the somewhat simplistic guidelines that Icy-Veins has now, which says CS > everything else, no matter what. It also says OP > MS, which I also have trouble finding the logic behind. I would think there would have to be a lot of but's and if's in the rotation, with Shattered Defenses, MS resets, and rage reservation for MS (aka no slam/ww spamming until oom).

Edited September 9, 2016 by Razid

[Sajakain 104]

46 minutes ago, Razid said:

What you say does make sense, but that doesn't follow the somewhat simplistic guidelines that Icy-Veins has now, which says CS > everything else, no matter what. It also says OP > MS, which I also have trouble finding the logic behind. I would think there would have to be a lot of but's and if's in the rotation, with Shattered Defenses, MS resets, and rage reservation for MS (aka no slam/ww spamming until oom).

If you have OP talented, you want to spend the proc when you get it. You don't want it sitting there so that's why it's suggested over Mortal Strike. If you're using a Focused Rage build, however, you won't have OP talented so it's not that big of a deal. (You'd have Dauntless talented)

As far as your original question goes, it again depends on the build you're using. Outside of a FR build, you could simply resort it to an extension with the proc. However with a FR build, it depends on where your FR stacks are at and how quickly tactician proc'd CS. If you pop CS and tactician procs within the first 2 seconds... gauge where your FR stacks are at. If it's at 2 or 3, go ahead and use MS and then use CS again. If your FR stacks are at 0 or 1, go ahead and use CS to refresh the debuff and give tactician another chance to proc while getting your FR stacks up to 2 or 3.

[Carrn 284]

Welp, I was doing some napkin math to try and figure it out while writing up a response, but the pro is here  now so listen to him ;)

[Razid 1]

1 hour ago, Sajakain said:

If you have OP talented, you want to spend the proc when you get it. You don't want it sitting there so that's why it's suggested over Mortal Strike. If you're using a Focused Rage build, however, you won't have OP talented so it's not that big of a deal. (You'd have Dauntless talented)

But why not let it sit there? I know it has a limited window, but we're talking about delaying it by about 1,5 sec for MS. As far as I can see MS has higher avg hits (Despite it having lower crit chance), and it does way more overall dmg because of all the resets, even when OP is prioritized over it.

Am I missing something? 

[Sajakain 104]

56 minutes ago, Razid said:

But why not let it sit there? I know it has a limited window, but we're talking about delaying it by about 1,5 sec for MS. As far as I can see MS has higher avg hits (Despite it having lower crit chance), and it does way more overall dmg because of all the resets, even when OP is prioritized over it.

Am I missing something? 

Because Overpower can be activated by any of your melee attacks. Not using it when it procs risks missing a proc which, in turn, would mean missing overall damage done depending on how many procs you "let sit there". The damage between the two base spells (Mortal Strike and Overpower) isn't that different. Of course, Mortal Strike can be buffed to do more damage and this is where the difference comes in and this, as mentioned earlier, is completely dependent on the build you use.

Assuming you're using Overpower (which, let's face it, in this question you are. . . ), you are most likely using In For The Kill (Tier 75). The only buff you would be getting to Mortal Strike, then, would be from Shattered Defenses (First golden trait on your weapon). In this specific situation then, yes, I would take the empowered Mortal Strike first and then the proc'd Overpower.

If you miss too many Overpowers, you're missing out on overall damage done. If you're using Focused Rage then your talent in Tier 15 is to be Dauntless and, as such, Overpower is not in the question.

[Razid 1]

Okay. Makes sense. Thanks! And yes, I am using the OP-build :)

[Salte 1]

When FR is at 3 stacks do you just spam Slam until CS, or Mortal Strike come back up?

And do you weave in FR during the normal rotation to get to 3 stacks asap.

I apologize for the newb questions, just trying to make sure I get this right.

Thanks.

[Valks 2,375]

42 minutes ago, Salte said:

When FR is at 3 stacks do you just spam Slam until CS, or Mortal Strike come back up?

And do you weave in FR during the normal rotation to get to 3 stacks asap.

I apologize for the newb questions, just trying to make sure I get this right.

Thanks.

The rotation from the guide with FR states the folllowing priority:

1. Cast  Charge if out of range of your target.
2. Cast  Colossus Smash if available.
3. Cast  Warbreaker if  Colossus Smash is absent from the target.
4. Cast  Overpower if taken and available.
5. Cast  Execute with  Ayala's Stone Heart procs.
6. Cast  Mortal Strike (regardless of  Focused Rage stacks).
7. Cast  Focused Rage if not at 3 stacks or during  Battle Cry.
8. Cast  Slam if at 3 stacks of  Focused Rage, or during  Battle Cry.

So, if you can't fulfill any of the first 6 critera, you will spam Focused Rage to get to 3 stacks. As soon as you hit 3 stacks, if you can't do anything else, you then Slam until you can.

[Salte 1]

36 minutes ago, Blainie said:

The rotation from the guide with FR states the folllowing priority:

1. Cast  Charge if out of range of your target.
2. Cast  Colossus Smash if available.
3. Cast  Warbreaker if  Colossus Smash is absent from the target.
4. Cast  Overpower if taken and available.
5. Cast  Execute with  Ayala's Stone Heart procs.
6. Cast  Mortal Strike (regardless of  Focused Rage stacks).
7. Cast  Focused Rage if not at 3 stacks or during  Battle Cry.
8. Cast  Slam if at 3 stacks of  Focused Rage, or during  Battle Cry.

So, if you can't fulfill any of the first 6 critera, you will spam Focused Rage to get to 3 stacks. As soon as you hit 3 stacks, if you can't do anything else, you then Slam until you can.

Great thanks...That is what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

 

[Sajakain 104]

2 hours ago, Blainie said:

The rotation from the guide with FR states the folllowing priority

The only problem I personally have with this rotation is what I mentioned above

If the player is using Focused Rage then they are not (or, should not be, rather) using Overpower. I wouldn't even list it as an option because that would be pointing a newcomer to the Warrior class in the wrong direction. If Focused Rage is the chosen talent then then Tier 15 talent needs to be Dauntless.

[Valks 2,375]

Just now, Sajakain said:

The only problem I personally have with this rotation is what I mentioned above

If the player is using Focused Rage then they are not (or, should not be, rather) using Overpower. I wouldn't even list it as an option because that would be pointing a newcomer to the Warrior class in the wrong direction. If Focused Rage is the chosen talent then then Tier 15 talent needs to be Dauntless.

I should have probably included that Wordup does include that distinction when looking at talent builds. I think it's just put into 1 priority for simplicity.

[Sopimpin 0]

So what they have asked brings up a very good question i've really been wondering, should we be using mortal strike regardless of stacks of focused rage just to have it on cd or holding it until we have 3 stacks and our shattered defenses procs up from cs?

[Valks 2,375]

16 hours ago, Sopimpin said:

So what they have asked brings up a very good question i've really been wondering, should we be using mortal strike regardless of stacks of focused rage just to have it on cd or holding it until we have 3 stacks and our shattered defenses procs up from cs?

1. Cast  Charge if out of range of your target.
2. Cast  Colossus Smash if available.
3. Cast  Warbreaker if  Colossus Smash is absent from the target.
4. Cast  Overpower if taken and available.
5. Cast  Execute with  Ayala's Stone Heart procs.
6. Cast  Mortal Strike (regardless of  Focused Rage stacks).
7. Cast  Focused Rage if not at 3 stacks or during  Battle Cry.
8. Cast  Slam if at 3 stacks of  Focused Rage, or during  Battle Cry.

Number 6