5.4 Changes and Notes as of 7/10

[Omaric 246]

To clarify the KJC and MF changes, because I read it wrong at first:

KJC: 1 minute CD. 10 second duration.

MF: 1 minute CD. 10 second duration.

I wonder if as Demo it will be worth it to take MF and be in melee range for Immolation Aura, even in a single target situation. Immolation Aura hits relatively hard, and doubling its effectiveness sounds classy.

Affliction *looks* like it will be OK, but Destruction still looks a little bit up in the air.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Omaric

[gahhda 95]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9282218881?page=113#2242

My thoughts on blizzard's stupidity.

[FellintoOblivion 2]

So they're buffing DoT's which were nerfed a few patches ago for being too strong.

Brilliant.

[Cruzan 71]

Uhh.......what?

The snapshotting aspect of Fel Flame is a great change, but why on earth does it need a 1.5s cast time?? An instant is basically a 1s cast time spell that doesn't require movement. At certain levels of haste you're going to end up right around there anyway with a 1.5s baseline cast so what perceived gain are we getting by technically being able to move and cast it (other than the chance that we get spell-locked in PvP)? I'm guessing it won't have any negative side effects such as the KJC snare? Seems like they made it more complicated than it needed to be. It better hit a helluva lot harder than it did before.

As far as Affl changes go, can we expect DS to remain the same in it's bonus damage? If so, then our executes just got stronger unless we have to move. And as mentioned before, multi-dotting is getting stronger as well by the sounds of it which seems counter-intuitive to what was changed just a short while ago with the Corruption nerfs.

The rate of turnover on these changes makes me think this is still brainstorming as the Haunt change came and went in a matter of a few of days.

The reduction in CD and duration of KJC and MF are much better. 60s CD is much more manageable, but the ratio remains the same so....meh. 15s duration would have been great, especially from a PvP standpoint.

So far the hit to ember generation through the RoF nerf doesn't really do much to stem the tide of Destro mains angry about the changes. The waiting game continues....

Edited June 18, 2013 by Cruzan

[keefbeef 1]

So sad to see what they are doing to my Demo's beloved MF...

So the new iteration will only affect Seed/Rain/Hellfire/Immolation Aura? All the other wonderful Demo AoE spells will be unaffected?

And the 1.5s cast time on Fel Flame seems to be so that it can still be interrupted and spell locked. No mention of reducing it's mana cost which will absolutely need to happen if they expect us to spam it on the move.

If they really wanted to penalize dependance on KJC, wouldn't it be better to just change it's numbers a little bit? e.g. same as now being passive but each use reduces run speed by 20% (stacking up to 5/6/7/infinite?) So if you use it "too much" then you effectively get rooted into place.

Edited June 18, 2013 by keefbeef

[Vestion 8]

It seems blizz dosnt understand why all the locks are QQing. We want passive movespeed that allows us to use any of our three specs for a given fight based on the fight's requirements, not based on how much movement there is. If when 5.4 comes and we have yet another CD to worry about that gives us movement while casting for half a second with a CD that dosnt line up with any fight machanic in the new raid, then we are going to be forced into demo for some fights, affli for others with our new and "improved" fel flame and destru will just cry in a corner, alone and untouched, almost like every other tier this expantion.

I know this has already been said but, if we are apprently OP, its really not our level 90 talents that are doing that for us.

[Typecast 16]

So, remove ember generation from RoF to get it out of the single target rotation. Introduce redone Mannoroth's that doubles the damage of RoF and makes its DPET greater than our filler single target. So destro gets a nice bump to single target damage from 6 gcd's that was used on RoF and can be spent on Incinerate/Fel Flame depending on the fight. But Area damage and ember generation will take a hit from Mannoroth no longer applying to FnB.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Typecast

[Desos 18]

i love my destro toon and hardly specced into any other than destro since wotlk so i don´t like that destro is going to be the last of the 3 specc´s again with a much greater distance between it and the other speccs on heavy movement fights

even the workaround with fel flame as a filler for movement is ridiculous, since incinerate is a 2 sec cast for the same amount of mana as current fel flame

given a stack of Backdraft this ends up at 1.4 sec cast time and 3.5% mana instead of 5 %, all this without haste from gear and buffs

[Soulzar 42]

I like how they 'fixed' our complaint about not being able to use Fel Flame for movement due to it overwriting snapshot dots, by removing our ability to extend the duration of buffed dots....

Seems so exremely short sighted.....

[Omaric 246]

Extend them by casting them again........? The only spec that really matters for is Affliction, who is apparently having all their DoT's buffed anyway. SB:SS is still a viable option and 2 of the DoT's are instant cast to respond to any procs that come up.

I had no complaints about Fel Flame because I never used it with KJC. The change they are making to it, so far, makes it viable.

[Zagam 1,982]

Changing Fel Flame to a 1.5 second cast ability that you can cast while moving while buffing it seems bland. Now it's just Scorch for Warlocks. I get it, but having a default cast while moving' spell just takes some of our flavor away. I use Fel Flame on one fight only, and that's Heroic Durumu. It's because I use Mannoroth's Fury to decimate the walls. I believe Demo is going to have that Durumu feeling all the time where any time I move, I'm jamming my Fel Flame button.

It will be a nice change to have MG tied to less damage and allow Fel Flame to be casted as Affliction without overpowering good procs. This will be a great mobility buff for Affliction.

Again, remember, 5.4 is likely 2 months out. Lots of time for adjustments. They're just making mechanical changes now with number changes coming soon.

[Omaric 246]

It would be interesting if they made Fel Flame cause any of your active DoT's (besides Doom) to tick an extra time for all specs, similar to a non-channeled MG.

They could have a glyph for Affliction to make it look like a Shadowbolt for all the people that have boners for the old days of Shadowbolt fillers.

For Destruction you'd gain a little extra amount of burning embers through the extra Immolate tick.

Demonology would gain a little extra DF from the extra Corruption tick.

You just have to walk the fine line of making the only move/cast option spell too powerful, but still fun.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Omaric

[Cruzan 71]

https://twitter.com/...088563348840448

GC Tweet about FF remaining as an instant.

As well as Lore http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9282218881?page=138#2753

Edited June 18, 2013 by Cruzan

[FellintoOblivion 2]

Have they reduced the mana cost of FF? If not isn't it still pretty much unusable?

[Syntii 2]

GC Tweeted that they will reduce Mana Costs of FF but they figure out by how much to keep it Situational.

[Zagam 1,982]

They need to reduce mana cost. If they only change that it doesn't extend Corruption, UA, and Immolate and reduce the mana cost, then the spell is fine. Especially if they buff it a bit. It is EXTREMELY mana inefficient.

[Syntii 2]

• James Wilson @Tirnanogh

  @Ghostcrawler @Zarasz Mana cost for Fel Flame is quite high. Are you considering lowering it?

Greg Street @Ghostcrawler

@Tirnanogh Yes. We just want to keep it as a spell of last resort and don't want it to get mixed into normal rotations.

10:58 PM - 18 Jun 2013

Also i read something about buffing dmg for Destro instead of Ember generating......

Edited June 19, 2013 by Illumy

[Zagam 1,982]

I don't expect heavy damage modification numbers to come through until they've figured out HOW they want classes to be played. They are tweaking lots of stuff and have the new raid to consider. They've said before that they make raid encounters sometimes to favor ranged or melee, but that lots of attention is made to not let one particular type of class (like multi-dotters) become so overpowered in an encounter that bringing only them is an easy key to success.

[Syntii 2]

True but when they go through with that Destro could become even more boring than it is right now. Meaning no RoF and lesser CB casts...

[vaeevictiss 17]

The friggin problem with "mandatory" talents is that there is no way possible for blizzard to avoid it. If it is a talent, that directly affects your dps...that is the one people will take. With other tiers of talents, you really do have options based on preference or encounter. But shit like KJC was a clear choice.

I hate when they come back and try to blame the community for not using the other two shitty talents when they designed it that way.

There is no amount of changing you can do to talent trees that will avoid "mandatory" talents, unless they do nothing for dps.

Edited June 19, 2013 by vaeevictiss

[Zagam 1,982]

I've never seemed them blame players for using a talent or ability. They take full responsibility for their design and admit when they overlook some things and defend things when they feel they are right. They blame themselves for letting KJC become what it is, not the players for taking the talent.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I suppose...regardless, why would you dangle such a treat in front of us just to rip it away...jerks! lol

[Zagam 1,982]

Such is life, my friend. Remember naptime in Kindergarten and how much you hated it? Yeah, me, too. Miss it today at work? Yeah, me, too.

[Stonesie 5]

KJC nerf makes me very sad. :(

[Zagam 1,982]

Updated first page with new changes. Looks generally like our mobility spell across all specs is Fel Flame. It's had its mana cost reduced 40% to 3% of base instead of 5%. It's received a very small damage buff, no longer extends DoTs, and most painfully, does not generate Demonic Fury for Demonology anymore.

The Demonology changes are BRUTAL for sustained AoE on multiple targets. Void Ray no longer extends Corruption, so you can't apply and forget. This will make Corruption not even worth casting in multi-DoT situations when more than 5 or 6 mobs are stacked together (think Wind Lord).

The lack of DF generation from Fel Flame is a HUGE gutting on Demonology PvP. Goodbye moving and casting. Fel Flame will do a small amount of damage and provide NO other benefit for Demo in PvP. The change also hurts Demo in PvE settings because Life Tap is now more valuable. I think this change will make Life Tapping to 100% mana (if your mana is anywhere south of 75%) a more viable option than Fel Flame.

Ouch.