5.4 Changes and Notes as of 7/10

[Khaos 5]

Just never bothered to make an account! i would also like to thank zagam for his very helpful tips and guides. :)

[Cruzan 71]

Anyone keeping up with this? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/#warlock

Some more number "tweaking" came in for Affliction it looks like. Is it just me, or did they gut Aff's execute?

Also, cant tell if the new AV's passive stacks, or if it is only from the latest source of damage. Interesting though.

[Annoroth 5]

Anyone keeping up with this? http://us.battle.net...158897/#warlock

Some more number "tweaking" came in for Affliction it looks like. Is it just me, or did they gut Aff's execute?

Also, cant tell if the new AV's passive stacks, or if it is only from the latest source of damage. Interesting though.

I believe it stacks, much like the current Vengeance mechanic for tanks does.

As for the Affliction tweaks, I sincerely hope that there's a numbers/tuning pass done on those changes, in the relatively near future.

[Zagam 1,982]

Anyone keeping up with this? http://us.battle.net...158897/#warlock

Some more number "tweaking" came in for Affliction it looks like. Is it just me, or did they gut Aff's execute?

Also, cant tell if the new AV's passive stacks, or if it is only from the latest source of damage. Interesting though.

It wasn't just the execute, it is all of their rotation. Gutting Malefic Grasp damage, gutting Malefic Grasp DoT proc damage, and gutting both components of Drain Soul is going to drastically nerf Affliction. However, they are compensating by buffing Agony and Unstable Affliction. It APPEARS that this is their attempt to fix PvP while keeping PvE viable. They're putting more reliance on the DoTs rather than the channeled effects which will make Affliction PvP MUCH more fun to play. This will also make Affliction stronger in multi-DoT situations, but I don't think a 5% buff to Agony and 10% buff to UA makes up for the gutting they did to MG and DS. My guess is a big nerfbat and then small tuning amounts until they get it back where they want.

What scares me is the line where it says "Glyph of Everlasting Affliction is being reworked." That could spell bad things for what's going to happen with Doom snapshotting. Looks like they aren't going to nerf UVLS, but rather the other key component that makes it so good.

[JvChequer 43]

> Put your Demon Hunting Glyph

> Taunt Lei Shen for Decapite

> DB

> LOL'D AT that bitchy face with your new Infinite SP Bonus

> GO Meta and roll some donuts

Edited July 9, 2013 by JvChequer

[vaeevictiss 17]

ugh yea, i was reading that last night wondering why they didnt go with a simpler...

Affliction

- This talent spec has been removed

[Zagam 1,982]

It'll be fine. I'm actually anticipating nerfs to a lot of classes and abilities, not just Warlocks, as an effect of the ridiculous scaling of gear and DPS. They might try to minimize the difference by gutting some of the strong classes.

[juribe 1]

It wasn't just the execute, it is all of their rotation. Gutting Malefic Grasp damage, gutting Malefic Grasp DoT proc damage, and gutting both components of Drain Soul is going to drastically nerf Affliction. However, they are compensating by buffing Agony and Unstable Affliction. It APPEARS that this is their attempt to fix PvP while keeping PvE viable. They're putting more reliance on the DoTs rather than the channeled effects which will make Affliction PvP MUCH more fun to play. This will also make Affliction stronger in multi-DoT situations, but I don't think a 5% buff to Agony and 10% buff to UA makes up for the gutting they did to MG and DS. My guess is a big nerfbat and then small tuning amounts until they get it back where they want.

What scares me is the line where it says "Glyph of Everlasting Affliction is being reworked." That could spell bad things for what's going to happen with Doom snapshotting. Looks like they aren't going to nerf UVLS, but rather the other key component that makes it so good.

They also buffed Haunt and the % damage from Haunt, right? Can't check the notes atm, but I thought I remembered reading that. No idea if that will be enough compensation for the nerfs, but it certainly appears that theyr'e moving in the direction of DoTs > channels, which is fine by me.

[Zagam 1,982]

Agreed. Yes, Haunt's damage is being buffed and Soul Shard generation is being buffed single target, so the priority will be even higher for Affliction to monitor DoT spell power as well as optimizing Haunt uptime. This will buff Affliction movement DPS by allowing it to safely use Fel Flame while moving (doesn't update DoTs anymore) because of its increased damage, reduced mana cost, and the nerfing of MG and DS. Hell, they're making most of the changes to where I don't think KJC will be taken very much. The damage buff to Manno's and AV will make taking KJC look like a lazy choice.

[vaeevictiss 17]

will AV be that good?

the whole idea of a DPS class is to not take damage. I do understand fights will have unavoidable damage, but how much will actually make AV worth it?

[Omaric 246]

will AV be that good?

the whole idea of a DPS class is to not take damage. I do understand fights will have unavoidable damage, but how much will actually make AV worth it?

Exactly. Looks pretty dumb to me. Not what I imagined for a rework.

[juribe 1]

It will completely depend on the fight which 90 talent we take. There are definitely some fights in ToT that I think the new AV would be stellar on, for when movement isn't crucial and there isn't a need for MF.

[Zagam 1,982]

AV looks heavily garnished as a PvP talent. It will be incredible for PvP Affliction in its new state. With a ramping up vengeance type ability, if you're going to attack a Warlock, you better make sure you kill him. If you don't, he's going to put super DoTs on everyone obliterating your entire team.

For PvE, there will be very cheesing type abilities for this that will likely cause them to rework it. For example, in its current state, I'd absolutely recommend raiding with a Paladin and taking Dark Bargain. Instead of a tank pulling at the start of a fight, you would. Since the damage is based on unmitigated damage, eat a shit ton of damage with Dark Bargain up. When DB wears off, tank taunts. Paladin slaps Hand of Purity on you while you use Unending Resolve and Twilight Ward. For every 1M unmitigated damage you'd take (approx 2 melees from a boss), you'd get about a 10k spell power increase. If this goes live, you're going to see top parsing Warlocks eating attacks with AV to buff damage. It's a neat design, but I think it's going to go heavily against intended fight design and adaption.

Good example of this is Lei Shen's Thunderstruck. On Heroic, it deals 2M damage if you stand directly under it. 2M mitigated via Dark Bargain would deal 1M over 8 seconds, or 125k per second. Hand of Purity reduces this by 70% for 6 seconds, so for 6 of the ticks, you'd only take 37.5k. Twilight Ward would absorb 3 of those ticks, and Unending Resolve would reduce that another 40% for the full duration of DB's backlash. You'd gain 20k spell power and end up taking about 200k damage which HoTs would easily cover up.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I was actually hoping they were going to completely change direction with it and make it something entirely different. Not rework an already broken idea.

[vaeevictiss 17]

AV looks heavily garnished as a PvP talent. It will be incredible for PvP Affliction in its new state. With a ramping up vengeance type ability, if you're going to attack a Warlock, you better make sure you kill him. If you don't, he's going to put super DoTs on everyone obliterating your entire team.

For PvE, there will be very cheesing type abilities for this that will likely cause them to rework it. For example, in its current state, I'd absolutely recommend raiding with a Paladin and taking Dark Bargain. Instead of a tank pulling at the start of a fight, you would. Since the damage is based on unmitigated damage, eat a shit ton of damage with Dark Bargain up. When DB wears off, tank taunts. Paladin slaps Hand of Purity on you while you use Unending Resolve and Twilight Ward. For every 1M unmitigated damage you'd take (approx 2 melees from a boss), you'd get about a 10k spell power increase. If this goes live, you're going to see top parsing Warlocks eating attacks with AV to buff damage. It's a neat design, but I think it's going to go heavily against intended fight design and adaption.

Good example of this is Lei Shen's Thunderstruck. On Heroic, it deals 2M damage if you stand directly under it. 2M mitigated via Dark Bargain would deal 1M over 8 seconds, or 125k per second. Hand of Purity reduces this by 70% for 6 seconds, so for 6 of the ticks, you'd only take 37.5k. Twilight Ward would absorb 3 of those ticks, and Unending Resolve would reduce that another 40% for the full duration of DB's backlash. You'd gain 20k spell power and end up taking about 200k damage which HoTs would easily cover up.

yea that would probably go along those lines of "highly unintended" (and get nerfed) lol. And doesnt TW only absorb shadow and holy?

Edited July 9, 2013 by vaeevictiss

[Zagam 1,982]

First stab at PTR Affliction DPS changes:

Notice that the total damage done before is 59.7M and total damage done now is 60.6M. Hey, pretty close and maybe even a slight buff? Just a heavier focus on Haunt and DoTs which, IMO, is better.

[Zagam 1,982]

yea that would probably go along those lines of "highly unintended" (and get nerfed) lol. And doesnt TW only absorb shadow and holy?

That's correct. Dark Bargain's backlash is always Shadow damage.

[Khaos 5]

I guess this all just means that KJC won't be that good anymore.

[Zagam 1,982]

KJC will be the lazy Warlock's selection. AV and MF generating extra DPS will be silly not to take. The buff to Fel Flame makes movement DPS even better. Demonology already didn't need it with good timing of Meta. I can see KJC being a DPS buff when absolutely NO AoE is needed and you won't be taking any damage. Based on current and future fight design, neither of those are ever completely missing.

[Khaos 5]

I still think AV is being badly designed . Taking dmg != DPS's job , this is going to prompt people to stand in bad stuff, i hope they're capping this effect just like they're trying to cap vengeance eg: the most spellpower you can get is 10/5% of your health.

Also i still don't see destro living without KJC in a tortos-like fight.

[Zagam 1,982]

If Tortos is done correctly, there isn't a lot of movement aside from right after Quake Stomp. Avoiding the turtles should be easy with Hunter Traps, Conflagrate slow, Curse of Exhaustion, Rogue slow, etc. Given the AoE nature of the fight, the 100% damage buff to Rain of Fire would likely trump KJC.

Capping AV at a certain percentage will just create thresholds of Warlocks to take damage for the buff increase. If you cap it at 10% of your max HP, my bonus would only be 1% of 65k damage which would be a 650 spell power gain. Hardly even noteworthy. If they cap it, the % will need to be modified. If they let it go live where taking damage buffs all of the Warlock's damage, Warlocks will take on a whole new role where they're going to take damage to do more damage.

[Khaos 5]

Then i really don't see it working out. =p

[Hawkmune 2]

It'll be fine. I'm actually anticipating nerfs to a lot of classes and abilities, not just Warlocks, as an effect of the ridiculous scaling of gear and DPS. They might try to minimize the difference by gutting some of the strong classes.

I'm glad you wrote this Zagam. I think sometimes we need to take a deep breath and realize that as min/maxers, we'll adapt to this change and probably be just fine.

Now, before I go all "Holier then thou" on everyone, keep in mind that I was one of the first people to blow a gasket when they nerfed KJC. I guess my biggest beef with the KJC is that casting while moving is fun. I actually think it should be a baseline ability for all classes. It feels like casting and not moving is a legacy idea from 2004. When I get on my Mage, Shadow Priest or Boomkin and cast, I die a little bit inside as I realize I can't move and cast.

I like the idea of AV, but now I worry that it too will become the default talent as it basically is buffing your spell power at all times during a fight. You'd have to have a very move-intensive fight in order to justify KJC over AV.

[Zagam 1,982]

Going to be rocking Affliction tonight in my 13/13H clear of ToT. That'll give me some real logs to test the 5.4 changes in single target and AoE/target switching situations. Going to hurt me to not play Demonology on Council, but meh. Then again, I might get sat for it. I dunno. I'll do my best to collect as much data as possible.

[Juloroh 0]

Going to be rocking Affliction tonight in my 13/13H clear of ToT. That'll give me some real logs to test the 5.4 changes in single target and AoE/target switching situations. Going to hurt me to not play Demonology on Council, but meh. Then again, I might get sat for it. I dunno. I'll do my best to collect as much data as possible.

=)....I felt the same when playing with my brother Affliction Warlock , good luck. I hope you(Affliction Zagam) will be as good as Demonology Zagam.