5.4 Changes and Notes as of 7/10

[Zagam 1,982]

LoLwut? "There are no nerfs"? Currently it's a toss-up of what's best even at >545 item item level, but with this nerf that isn't a nerf, there isn't an argument of which talent to use? As in you'd be doing less damage, right? How is this not a nerf? Mind... blown.

Edit: As Affliction, some (like myself) don't want to use a pet 100% of the time. In fact, the only pet I really ever wanna see out is Felguard.

You stated Affliction got nerfed. I argued that it did not and that it was a talent adjustment. You claim it's a nerf because you PREFER to play that way. Affliction didn't get nerfed. Grimoire of Sacrifice got nerfed.

[Kaboozey 16]

Affliction wasn't nerfed, just fixed before going Live like 5.0 and being extremely OP.

So the scaling will lead it to going overboard at much higher item levels. That makes more sense. It also repeats what we had last time they nerfed it (around 496-502 ilvl): Affliction starts out less valuable and weaker at lower item levels using Sacrifice because it simply doesn't scale. Most people at that time abandoned ship from Affliction at that point, and it will happen again until it eventually catches up. Especially with multi-target fights. It would seem they could come up with a better way to do with it rather than nerf it every time people are about to attain better gear.

[Kaboozey 16]

You stated Affliction got nerfed. I argued that it did not and that it was a talent adjustment. You claim it's a nerf because you PREFER to play that way. Affliction didn't get nerfed. Grimoire of Sacrifice got nerfed.

And you're arguing a technicality because it's a talent. It certainly didn't effect any of the other specs.

[Zagam 1,982]

So the scaling will lead it to going overboard at much higher item levels. That makes more sense. It also repeats what we had last time they nerfed it (around 496-502 ilvl): Affliction starts out less valuable and weaker at lower item levels using Sacrifice because it simply doesn't scale. Most people at that time abandoned ship from Affliction at that point, and it will happen again until it eventually catches up. Especially with multi-target fights. It would seem they could come up with a better way to do with it rather than nerf it every time people are about to attain better gear.

Mages have something similar. It's called Critical Mass, and Blizzard has been stumped on how to fix this issue for a long time. Look at Fire Mages now. They will be able to get ridiculously close to 100% Crit in the next tier. Scaling seems to just go right over Blizz's head. Anytime you place a percentage increase on something, the better that something gets, the larger the buff gets. I would imagine that this will make GoSac absolutely worthless in all instances of PvE, even single target BiS.

[Zagam 1,982]

And you're arguing a technicality because it's a talent. It certainly didn't effect any of the other specs.

I'm just sensitive to people saying '*insert spec here* got nerfed' when that's not really the case because people will read that and twist things or ask more questions. Might be a slight overreaction on my part, but I have to play the part of forum check and make sure anything that MIGHT be misleading is clarified as soon as possible.

[JvChequer 43]

So the scaling will lead it to going overboard at much higher item levels. That makes more sense. It also repeats what we had last time they nerfed it (around 496-502 ilvl): Affliction starts out less valuable and weaker at lower item levels using Sacrifice because it simply doesn't scale. Most people at that time abandoned ship from Affliction at that point, and it will happen again until it eventually catches up. Especially with multi-target fights. It would seem they could come up with a better way to do with it rather than nerf it every time people are about to attain better gear.

Ppl does not play affliction anymore not because it's bad nowadays or it's heavy nerfed, but because UVLS it's just too good for DEMO.

[Kaboozey 16]

Ppl does not play affliction anymore not because it's bad nowadays or it's heavy nerfed, but because UVLS it's just too good for DEMO.

It's hard to envision that. If Sac was still at 50% for Affliction, and Corruption wasn't nerfed by 25% (and whatever other nerfs I can't think of), I'm awfully confident that Affliction would still be king like it was in 5.2(?) - and consequently OP (or "broken" for you M:TG players). Someone hitting 160K would be hitting almost 200K instead. People would be forced to move due to rising sea waters on account of Mage tears.

[Omaric 246]

It's hard to envision that. If Sac was still at 50% for Affliction, and Corruption wasn't nerfed by 25% (and whatever other nerfs I can't think of), I'm awfully confident that Affliction would still be king like it was in 5.2(?) - and consequently OP (or "broken" for you M:TG players). Someone hitting 160K would be hitting almost 200K instead. People would be forced to move due to rising sea waters on account of Mage tears.

Why is it hard to envision that? UVoLS takes Demonology DPS to extremes. Demonology would be an average DPS spec without it. If Affliction wasn't nerfed like you say, it would be the only spec anyone is playing right now or they would be dumb, assuming they're trying to push progression. The damage would be insane. So yes, JvChequer is right in that Affliction isn't played as much because UVoLS is so good with Demonology. Affliction is very competitive otherwise, and in fact, pulls ahead in some situations.

[Kaboozey 16]

Oh, I would have fully agreed with him had he not mentioned the "heavy nerfed" part. As you say, without them, it'd be the only spec anyone would play. In fact...

Ppl does not play affliction anymore not because it's bad nowadays or it's heavy nerfed, but because UVLS it's just too good for DEMO.

Fix't

[Omaric 246]

He's still right though, haha, people would still play it even though it's been heavily nerfed. I do on certain fights.

Also, English isn't his first language so you can't take him word for word on everything. :D

[Cieron 0]

Here is a question about the dev's thinking. Why is GoSac even in the game if they don't want anyone to take it?

[Omaric 246]

They don't mind people taking it. They know a lot of players don't like dealing with either pet AI or because certain fights don't benefit from pets like others do (Jin'Rokh and Ji-Kun). They just don't want it to be so good that there isn't any point to taking the other two talents. Because of how Affliction scales they need to keep breaking down the benefit it provides. It's still a massive survivability boost on top of everything that scales with your HP pool, which is already high for warlocks. The survivability boost comes from not only the passive HP regen, but it also ensures a gigantic shield from Sacrificial Pact, as it takes *your* HP rather than from your pet.

They probably have something planned for next expansion so they don't have to deal with this fiasco, but we'll see.

[Zagam 1,982]

You mention the thing I always considered a perk while everyone just asks 'what's the best damage?'

GoSac gives you 2% of your max HP back every 5 seconds and is pretty nice when you're taking consistent damage. The reason it's not being allowed to blow up is because they designed it poorly in letting it scale your abilities up at certain item levels. Below that level it will be mediocre and above that level, it will be too good. What they should have done is modeled each to have a utility perk or DPS perk per fight. Service is a good talent to take for lots of AoE. Two Felstorms? $$$$$$$ Service as Affliction with Felhunters? Hey, extra clutch silence and a decent source of damage, but really it's just an extra button you gotta worry about. Destruction isn't allowed to use Sacrifice because of PvP. Did you read the forums back in November and December of last year about players who took a Chaos Bolt to the face? They had to remodel talents because they didn't think about the effect of scaling. Remember how having a 50% buff to stuff in 5.1 made Affliction the only worthwhile spec? Remember how GoSac made Destruction ridiculously awesome? GoSac used to be 50%, 30%, and 35%. Now it is 20%, 25%, and 15%. In the next expansion, we will either see a talent re-work or we will see the 5.0 values. Or the talent will become negligible and the baseline scaling of our class won't come from the talent.

TL;DR: Scaling abilities and talents shouldn't exist.

[juribe 1]

Man I always see people say they have pet issues on Jikun. I do nests every week and have done them since week 1 of ToT and I don't think my pet has despawned more than once, and that was because the first platform he missed when I jumped down. Do people really have that many issues with pets on Jikun?

[Cieron 0]

I get all that with scaling it just was gone for 2 expacs and then they brought it back having not solved the issues they had in BC with sac/destro sb spam. Seems silly to even bring it back.

[JvChequer 43]

Also, English isn't his first language so you can't take him word for word on everything.

Sorry, I try really hard :(

[Omaric 246]

Man I always see people say they have pet issues on Jikun. I do nests every week and have done them since week 1 of ToT and I don't think my pet has despawned more than once, and that was because the first platform he missed when I jumped down. Do people really have that many issues with pets on Jikun?

The reason I shy away from pets on Ji-Kun is that they don't benefit from the 100% increased damage buff that Primal Nutriment provides. When you're doing double damage, you want the grimoire that helps to increase that further.

[Omaric 246]

Sorry, I try really hard

I don't mean that as a bad thing. :D

You speak FAR better English than I speak..... anything else, haha.

[Khaos 5]

They keep nerfing gosac because without that we'd be in 5.0 / 5.1 all over again , with affliction scaling out of control.

[Jenaye 9]

dingdingding, winner.

[Alphric 7]

Yay the shit storm subsided!

[Alphric 7]

In 5.4 codex of xerath will affect dread steed, fel steed, abysmall, demonic fury, dark apotheosis, and demonic leap.

[Zagam 1,982]

Green Horse nostalgia will last approximately 48 hours. Green Abysal? Who the hell even summons that thing? Not sure on the Demonic Fury thing since it like...is a resource and not a spell? Unless they're changing that weird purple aura thing around Warlocks with full DF to a green color. Changing that small purple effect to green on Demonic Leap is meh. If I can be a big green meteor coming out of the sky with the glyph, I'll take it. That might actually be the most exciting thing about this change.

Gateway unable to be killed again, but usage is on a 60 sec CD.

[Omaric 246]

Green Horse nostalgia will last approximately 48 hours. Green Abysal? Who the hell even summons that thing? Not sure on the Demonic Fury thing since it like...is a resource and not a spell? Unless they're changing that weird purple aura thing around Warlocks with full DF to a green color. Changing that small purple effect to green on Demonic Leap is meh. If I can be a big green meteor coming out of the sky with the glyph, I'll take it. That might actually be the most exciting thing about this change.

Gateway unable to be killed again, but usage is on a 60 sec CD.

It also means green horns I believe, so I approve!

[Alphric 7]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the green fire changes to demo were meant to be implemented earlier but overlooked, like green horns and aura when maxing demonic fury, green wings in apotheosis mode, etc. Hand of Gul'dan would be neat green...I think the mounts and summon were just a "eh why the hell not?" sort of deal.