Strength importance for blood DKs

[Casper5632 0]

I have been looking around and it seems everyone has come to the conclusion that Strength is the most important stat for Blood DKS. I can't understand the logic behind this and I cant find any details that support this idea. My main 3 heals in recount are Death Strike, Bone Shield, and Blood Shield, all of which are unaffected by Strength. Can someone explain this stat priority to me?

[demonardvark 556]

3 hours ago, Casper5632 said:

I have been looking around and it seems everyone has come to the conclusion that Strength is the most important stat for Blood DKS. I can't understand the logic behind this and I cant find any details that support this idea. My main 3 heals in recount are Death Strike, Bone Shield, and Blood Shield, all of which are unaffected by Strength. Can someone explain this stat priority to me?

Strength has a direct impact on your ability to parry. When you parry a physical attack does no damage at all. So, let's think of when you are tanking trash or a boss. 90% of the time what are they doing? They just sit there and smack you. So, for big abilities typically those with names we have active mitigation, we death strike before hand to ignore the bad effect. For just being smacked around we have our defensive cooldowns and our parry. Blood Dk's however, literally only have parry, so we end up taking quite a few abilities to the face. However, parry is your first line of defense if you will so you want that to be as strong as possible. When parry fails you take damage and with only 2 real cooldowns, that can be bad. 

[Casper5632 0]

3 minutes ago, demonardvark said:

Strength has a direct impact on your ability to parry. When you parry a physical attack does no damage at all. So, let's think of when you are tanking trash or a boss. 90% of the time what are they doing? They just sit there and smack you. So, for big abilities typically those with names we have active mitigation, we death strike before hand to ignore the bad effect. For just being smacked around we have our defensive cooldowns and our parry. Blood Dk's however, literally only have parry, so we end up taking quite a few abilities to the face. However, parry is your first line of defense if you will so you want that to be as strong as possible. When parry fails you take damage and with only 2 real cooldowns, that can be bad. 

But its not anywhere near a 1 to 1 ratio. I have 2 Str trinkets and my parry is nowhere near impressive sitting at 20%. And if it was just regarding the improved parry chance wouldent Crit be listed higher on most guides as well? Crit is usually in the bottom tier when it comes to blood stat priorities even though it still gives around 70% of itself into parry chance.

[demonardvark 556]

8 hours ago, Casper5632 said:

But its not anywhere near a 1 to 1 ratio. I have 2 Str trinkets and my parry is nowhere near impressive sitting at 20%. And if it was just regarding the improved parry chance wouldent Crit be listed higher on most guides as well? Crit is usually in the bottom tier when it comes to blood stat priorities even though it still gives around 70% of itself into parry chance.

Sorry for delay in reply, Rise of Iron got me ( I beat it). Strength also determines the amount of damage your abilities do as well as healing from death strike. 

[demonardvark 556]

so I felt compelled to answer further. The way stats work in that is odd but it comes down to those you are trying to actively get more of and those you are more or less going to ignore. Strength, agility, and intellect, basically (basic) fall into this category. A specific spec will only be able to use gear with one of those three. So a dk can't use agility gear or intellect gear, it does nothing for them. The most basic stat that is the background behind the class is strength. Sort of like ilvl, in general the higher ilvl the better it is for you. Now gearing a blood dk, you won't be actively seeking strength, its a default stat, all your gear should have it, and you should have a lot, you won't be gemming or enchanting for strength. You are after haste/mastery or if doing a raw damage build (not recommended) you go for raw crit.

So, we have primary stats that in general are just upgraded passively. So, if you have a ilvl 45 weapon and an ilvl 100, the 100 will be better and likely have more strength and weapon attack. Only very rarely do we find a trinket that just raw grants a lot of primary stat like strength or agility. In dps cases these are the most favored, in tank cases.......... it depends on a lot of factors. 

So, while strength is the backbone stat of dk period, as long as your ilvl gear is higher it should have more strength in it. You don't chase that stat in ways.

[Valks 2,375]

On 9/21/2016 at 3:31 AM, demonardvark said:

 I beat it

[demonardvark 556]

6 hours ago, Blainie said:

it's a good feel

[Valks 2,375]

On 9/22/2016 at 10:28 AM, demonardvark said:

it's a good feel

Almost as good as going fishing as a DK. :D

[Sniz 60]

Strength has synergy with Rune of the Fallen Crusader.  With around 70% uptime, it will probably represent upwards of 1/8th of self healing done.

 

Edit: This is wrong, its a chance proc of 6% max health and is not tied to DPS.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Sniz

[Desruc 15]

On 10/10/2016 at 5:00 PM, Sniz said:

Strength has synergy with Rune of the Fallen Crusader.  With around 70% uptime, it will probably represent upwards of 1/8th of self healing done.

Is it really worth getting fallen crusader?

more armor / stam way beats fallen crusader imo

[Phenomena 2]

8 minutes ago, Desruc said:

Is it really worth getting fallen crusader?

more armor / stam way beats fallen crusader imo

IMO

5% Str

5% stam

5% armor

[Shells 64]

Fallen crusader does proc a good bit and a free 6% self heal is always good. More strength is useful too. 

 

A flat 5% more stats and armor is nice but its a bit boring. :)

[Sniz 60]

1 hour ago, Desruc said:

Is it really worth getting fallen crusader?

more armor / stam way beats fallen crusader imo

Last time I checked logs for a boss about the debate was over.

I combined the DS heal, Blood Shield bonus per DS (from the 5% stamina) and the expected mitigation of 5% armor (which isnt that much) vs the healing of fallen crusader and Fallen's heal doubled SSG.

Its the uptime.  6% of all damage done through 70% of a fight adds up.

(5 min boss (300secs) * 120kDPS * .06 (the FC heal) * .7 (the uptime) = 1.5million in heals.)

[demonardvark 556]

51 minutes ago, Sniz said:

Last time I checked logs for a boss about the debate was over.

I combined the DS heal, Blood Shield bonus per DS (from the 5% stamina) and the expected mitigation of 5% armor (which isnt that much) vs the healing of fallen crusader and Fallen's heal doubled SSG.

Its the uptime.  6% of all damage done through 70% of a fight adds up.

(5 min boss (300secs) * 120kDPS * .06 (the FC heal) * .7 (the uptime) = 1.5million in heals.)

I honestly love people who can do the math without sim aid, makes me happy

and yes fallen crusader is better. 

[Desruc 15]

1 hour ago, Sniz said:

(5 min boss (300secs) * 120kDPS * .06 (the FC heal) * .7 (the uptime) = 1.5million in heals.)

hmm this math seems abit of as it is per proc it heals 6% and not per sec its up.

shouldnt the math be more like:
5 min boss (300s)*0.7(the uptime) = this will give the amount of time the buff is up = buffUpTime.
BuffUpTime/15s (buff duration) = amount of procs = procs.

now the hard part its 6% healing now is that 6% of missing healt, max health or dmg taken at some point (im just going to assume its max health because its easier).

i think avarage max health of a dk is about 3.5m health

3.500.000 * 0.06 * procs.

now my math might be abit rusty but if i add it all up:

3.500.000*0,06*300*0,7/15 = 2.9m which seems very high so im pretty sure the 6% is of missing health, reducing it drasticaly.

[Sniz 60]

47 minutes ago, Desruc said:

hmm this math seems abit of as it is per proc it heals 6% and not per sec its up.

shouldnt the math be more like:
5 min boss (300s)*0.7(the uptime) = this will give the amount of time the buff is up = buffUpTime.
BuffUpTime/15s (buff duration) = amount of procs = procs.

now the hard part its 6% healing now is that 6% of missing healt, max health or dmg taken at some point (im just going to assume its max health because its easier).

i think avarage max health of a dk is about 3.5m health

3.500.000 * 0.06 * procs.

now my math might be abit rusty but if i add it all up:

3.500.000*0,06*300*0,7/15 = 2.9m which seems very high so im pretty sure the 6% is of missing health, reducing it drasticaly.

You know what, you're right.  I apologize. Its NOT based on damage done. Man I feel stupid...

I woke up and saw a reply and I started banging out numbers before I had coffee...lol.

So in order to rectify my mistake, I went and double checked my last Nythendra.  

Unholy Strength Proc'd 20 times in 5:11.

EHPS: 2.64m

RawHPS: 4.56m

4.56m / 20(procs) = 228k (raw heal per) / .06 (%) = 3.8m which is pretty much the hp of a buffed and bone shielded DK.

[Sniz 60]

1 hour ago, demonardvark said:

I honestly love people who can do the math without sim aid, makes me happy

and yes fallen crusader is better. 

Thanks. I bet you don't like it when those same people misinterpret the ability!!

 

Please see my post above.  What do you call it when you remember the ultimate point but forget the method?

 

Mad apologys to everyone for reading that nonsense...

[Desruc 15]

47 minutes ago, Sniz said:

You know what, you're right.  I apologize. Its NOT based on damage done. Man I feel stupid...

I woke up and saw a reply and I started banging out numbers before I had coffee...lol.

So in order to rectify my mistake, I went and double checked my last Nythendra.  

Unholy Strength Proc'd 20 times in 5:11.

EHPS: 2.64m

RawHPS: 4.56m

4.56m / 20(procs) = 228k (raw heal per) / .06 (%) = 3.8m which is pretty much the hp of a buffed and bone shielded DK.

This seems more like it. i have a few questions tho.
What is EHPS and RawHPS?

im gueesing these are the actual numbers it healed through the fight?

[Sniz 60]

1 minute ago, Desruc said:

This seems more like it. i have a few questions tho.
What is EHPS and RawHPS?

im gueesing these are the actual numbers it healed through the fight?

 

Pretty much.

Effective Healing Per Second doesn't include overhealing.

RawHPS does.  Basically what you "could have" healed for if your health was always less than 100%.

I think Raw is better for judging sheer healing potential when deciding about stats and EHPS is more suited to judge rotation/timing.  Obviously in a fight you want to avoid overheal but it will always happen when you're sitting on runic power and full health. 

[Desruc 15]

1 hour ago, Sniz said:

4.56m / 20(procs) = 228k (raw heal per) / .06 (%) = 3.8m which is pretty much the hp of a buffed and bone shielded DK.

i think im just having a hard time figuring out what we are calculating xD

the 228k is health per proc.
then you divide it to figure out how much that is 6% of and if its 3.8 that means it healt 6% of our max hp everytime it procs.?

then my calculations should be quite accurate.

[Sniz 60]

42 minutes ago, Desruc said:

i think im just having a hard time figuring out what we are calculating xD

the 228k is health per proc.
then you divide it to figure out how much that is 6% of and if its 3.8 that means it healt 6% of our max hp everytime it procs.?

then my calculations should be quite accurate.

Yeah. 228k is 1/16th or 6% of 3.8mil.  just confirming that FC heals for 6% of your health pool and not 6% of damage taken or missing health.

 

SSG isnt "terrible" though, its good! The 5% to stamina is about 190k more hp (19k bigger DS heals) not to mention the added mitigation of the armor bonus.  Plus it synergizes with DS giving you more control and the comfort of a bigger hp pool.  The more you DS the better SSG is.  Whereas FC just procs whenever.

Depends on how you weigh the x factors of hp pool/controlability/ and the fact that its "always there" whereas FC is a random 6% health infusion...i mean, im actually thinking about trying SSG!

 

In that Nythandra fight i cast DS 39 times (perhaps underutilized, but thats because I was concerned about ripping threat from a Guardian druid.)  In any event, that could have been 741k  in SSG heals exactly when i decided to press the button.

 

but as far as raw numbers at the end of the day, FC wins. 

(Edit: i forgot to mention that FC is independent of the need for runic power, which is important as well. It heals even when you can't.)

 

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Sniz

[Desruc 15]

4 hours ago, Sniz said:

In that Nythandra fight i cast DS 39 times (perhaps underutilized, but thats because I was concerned about ripping threat from a Guardian druid.)  In any event, that could have been 741k  in SSG heals exactly when i decided to press the button.

mind you thats assuming your DS only heals for 10% of your max hp.. DS has the potential to heal much much more. :P

I quite like SSG, mind you i have never tried fallen crusader so i dont know what im actually missing out on xD

[Sniz 60]

10 minutes ago, Desruc said:

mind you thats assuming your DS only heals for 10% of your max hp.. DS has the potential to heal much much more. :P

I quite like SSG, mind you i have never tried fallen crusader so i dont know what im actually missing out on xD

Thats true.

i guess its the difference between stacking in more stam for DS control(which intrigues me) and having a dedicated pocket healer that randomly heals you for 216k (with 3.6mil hp) roughly one every 15 seconds whether you need it or not.

 

Looking at it from SSG's side.

If you have 3.6m hp w/SSG you'd have 3.42m w/o it.  Thats a DS difference of about 17k minimum heal (about 34k maximum) adding your mastery % as an additional bubble.

To make up for 205k FC heal (3.42m hp w/o SSG) every 15 seconds, you'd have to DS quite a bit.