2016-09-23 Patch Notes Discussion

[Carrn 284]

Figured I'd make a master thread about it since there's already been 2 posts and it hasn't yet been 24 hours since the patch notes went live

PATCH NOTES

TL;DR

• Outlaw mildly nerfed
• Sin mildly buffed
• Sub buffed

 

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What does this mean for us?

A: Ehhh, not much

The biggest difference is that all 3 specs are effectively equal until a higher gear level, when Sub starts to pull ahead (although not by much)

The Agonizing Poison build pulls ahead of the Exsanguinate build as we move away from pre-raid gear and into Heroic EN, and continues to stay ahead. This means that Mastery is once again valuable for Sin

Even then, Outlaw's possible ceiling is still going to be higher, although that still takes quite a bit of luck and possibly some rigged dice. Outlaw's cleave will also always be better

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So what spec should I play?

A: Literally anything you want

It's not worth swapping specs over, since all 3 are so close. You should still be comfortable playing Outlaw, since that will be to go-to spec for AoE

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But... One has to be higher than the others... What should I be playing?

A: No seriously whatever you want.

Initial simulations are showing all 3 specs to be within about 8k of one another - and that's from highest to lowest. Pick whatever spec you enjoy the most, get good at it, and play that.

Here's an image of the comparison. You'll see there are 4 builds there as talents - Sin, Sin Exsang, Sub, and Outlaw. Each of those is represented 3 times; once for pre-raid gear levels, once for Heroic EN gear, and once for Mythic EN.

[lipsinch 46]

Or so I heard that Otl would be king...

Spoiler

 

[Flossing 0]

Hi I'm looking for opinions on Sin Tier 6 talents since my thread got locked:

Thanks!

[Megotaku 0]

When you say all specs are effectively equal, does this apply to cleave/AoE as well as single target?  Or is this "effectively equal" only for single target?  I don't play a Rogue, but if Assassination's AoE is fixed with this change I've always wanted to play it, but wasn't willing to be useless on any fight with AoE.

[Falx 1]

I wonder if master poison is now viable.

[Carrn 284]

3 hours ago, Flossing said:

Hi I'm looking for opinions on Sin Tier 6 talents since my thread got locked:

Thanks!

My opinion? Exsang is likely still going to be performing better than a poison spec

Final numbers aren't in yet, so that's just my opinion. Like I said in the OP I'll update it when more information becomes available

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Megotaku said:

When you say all specs are effectively equal, does this apply to cleave/AoE as well as single target?  Or is this "effectively equal" only for single target?  I don't play a Rogue, but if Assassination's AoE is fixed with this change I've always wanted to play it, but wasn't willing to be useless on any fight with AoE.

SIngle target.

Outlaw will still have the best AoE due to Blade Flurry

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, Falx said:

I wonder if master poison is now viable.

It's looking like every spec is going to be close enough in terms of performance that if you wanted to play Poison spec over Bleed spec you can probably get away with it, although especially for 2 target cleave Bleed will still be ahead by a decently significant margin due to multi-target Rupture and Hemo

[Falx 1]

2 hours ago, Carrn said:

It's looking like every spec is going to be close enough in terms of performance that if you wanted to play Poison spec over Bleed spec you can probably get away with it, although especially for 2 target cleave Bleed will still be ahead by a decently significant margin due to multi-target Rupture and Hemo

Hemo? I thought Elaborate Planning was the best talent tier.

[Carrn 284]

Given that it doesn't help you much when you're swapping targets, I would imagine that a cleave scenario where you're able to maintain bleeds on 2 targets Hemo is better. 

I could be mistaken, we will see what the Sim profiles look like when they come in, again this is just my own hypothesis

[Falx 1]

I found this on mmo-champions forum about the new hotfixes, what do you guys think?

Sims post hotfixes

[Carrn 284]

5 hours ago, Falx said:

I found this on mmo-champions forum about the new hotfixes, what do you guys think?

Sims post hotfixes

It shows exactly what I said - all of the specs are effectively equal, with about an 8k difference between the top and bottom specs this tier. You'll notice a gradual shift as gear improves moving into Mythic that Sin falls off a bit and Sub really pulls ahead moving into BiS gear

 

[Rustycage 0]

Hey guys, what does _Exsg stand for in the sims?  I have assumed it is a talent choice variant, but I don't want to guess.

 

Thanks,

Rusty

[Zupsero 1]

cant say that i hate these changes, since i got very frustrated with outlaw. 

we are a very lucky class! No matter what specc we like, we can play it and probably be at the top or near in a raid oder mythic+ environment. I still havent tested the cleave/aoe of Sub and Assa, but these doesnt matter too much to me anyways.

I love how the speccs are so close together that its literally whatever what u play. i must say, good job blizzard.  

 

different story for pvp i suppose

[Carrn 284]

3 hours ago, Rustycage said:

Hey guys, what does _Exsg stand for in the sims?  I have assumed it is a talent choice variant, but I don't want to guess.

 

Thanks,

Rusty

Exsanguinate build.

Final results from simulations should be in soon, and I'll outline talent choices and playstyles in the OP

[Moffli 0]

Damn.

I really want to play Assassination. But all my Artifact Power is in Outlaw, any way to change or just farm them all over again?

[Valks 2,375]

59 minutes ago, Moffli said:

Damn.

I really want to play Assassination. But all my Artifact Power is in Outlaw, any way to change or just farm them all over again?

Gotta farm it all again, unfortunately!

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, Moffli said:

Damn.

I really want to play Assassination. But all my Artifact Power is in Outlaw, any way to change or just farm them all over again?

The nice thing about Artifact Knowledge is that you can level up your other weapons INCREDIBLY quickly

[Carrn 284]

Updated and added some more information

Agonizing Poison build is now officially pulling ahead of Exsanguinate once you get into EN gear.

ALL specs and options are viable on single target. The difference between the best and worst is negligible, and if you're good at your chosen spec you'll be able to perform well regardless

Outlaw is still the top choice for constant cleave such as Mythic+ dungeons, although in situations where you need to focus down one particular target both other specs are strong.

Sin is strongest on 3 targets that you can hit all at once that are all going to live for a while. Think Iron Maidens from BRF.

That's about it. Pick whatever spec you like, play it as much as you can and practice all the time, and you'll perform well no matter what.

[Falx 1]

2 hours ago, Carrn said:

Updated and added some more information

Agonizing Poison build is now officially pulling ahead of Exsanguinate once you get into EN gear.

What I don't understand is how Agonizing Poison can be ahead of Exsanguinate if neither talents have been touched by the hotfix :)

Even more, I'd think Agonizing Poison would be even less viable considering that they buffed Deadly Poisons by 30%.

Edit: Forget what I said, I just noticed Poison Knives also buffs Agonizing Poisons now :)

Edited September 27, 2016 by Falx

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, Falx said:

What I don't understand is how Agonizing Poison can be ahead of Exsanguinate if neither talents have been touched by the hotfix :)

Even more, I'd think Agonizing Poison would be even less viable considering that they buffed Deadly Poisons by 30%.

Edit: Forget what I said, I just noticed Poison Knives also buffs Agonizing Poisons now :)

Previously there was math that showed it could be better with high Mastery levels, but it hadn't been validated by Sims nor was I able to test it without actually having a computer. 

Now we have both :P

[Lor 0]

18 minutes ago, Carrn said:

Previously there was math that showed it could be better with high Mastery levels, but it hadn't been validated by Sims nor was I able to test it without actually having a computer. 

Now we have both :P

So with an Agonizing build do you think the Tier 1 would lean on MP?

[Carrn 284]

Just now, Lor said:

So with an Agonizing build do you think the Tier 1 would lean on MP?

No, still Elaborate Planning

[Falx 1]

9 minutes ago, Carrn said:

No, still Elaborate Planning

Does the stat weight change? I guess Mastery becomes quite important now doesn't it.

[Carrn 284]

Just now, Falx said:

Does the stat weight change? I guess Mastery becomes quite important now doesn't it.

It does. Mastery is the most important stat followed by Crit, which is almost equal to Vers. 

I hope to have some guides posted here on the forums by tomorrow afternoon, which I'll be able to keep updated instead of using the guides on the main site which are harder to get updates for