Fire DPS Logs - Garbage performance

[AtomicSpoon 0]

Log here

848 Fire, not doing anywhere what I should be and having trouble bringing the damage up to sufficient levels. Was fine on my hunter in HFC but going back to a caster after a multiple year hiatus is giving me issues. Face -> Desk -> Repeat.

Trying to improve before I lose my mind.

I know my PF usage is far from good and I'm losing some PBs due to pyromaniac. RoP usage is badly timed as well. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by AtomicSpoon
A few words.

[Kreegan 1]

Posting Cenarius isn't the best because it's a crazy fight and it looks like you guys stopped dps for like 45 secs in it etc. I did see you slammed part of your opener into thorns, so for that I'd open sooner and not fish for a crit. Instead, a suggestion would be to pre-cast pyro or fireball and then drop RoP immediately then if you crit just fireblast and continue, if not you can pf+fireblast+combustion to get a hot streak and so your burst should finish right when thorns comes up.

I looked at your Ursoc and it's pretty much just as you said. Too often you're using PF when a rop isn't down and then hardcasting fireballs when  rop is down. You should be doing most of the hardcasting of fireballs outside of rop and saving the higher dmg bursts for RoP. I saw once you even used combustion and had to hardcast a couple fireballs during it, which is a complete waste.

The main thing you need to think about is never using a PF or Flame On when you aren't inside RoP and you need to save CD as much as possible when combustion is coming off cooldown. 

[Mute 0]

bump

 

I don't think its my rotation, i could be better but still.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Mute

[AtomicSpoon 0]

Less fireballs inside RoP and more focus on burst inside RoP. How do you handle keeping from capping on RoP/PF at 2/3 charges respectively? Close to a combustion I see holding onto them, but say in between.

(Can you tell I haven't played a caster in forever?)

[sidelsky18 0]

I found this thread from Google and strangely enough have the exact same problem as you AtomicSpoon.

Here is my log from our heroic Nyth kill tonight: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JNqPADXVp8LbkfRK/#type=damage-done&source=13

Our logs look fairly similar, but I think Kreegan is correct in saying that we are wasting our burst outside of RoP/Combustion too much.

[Kreegan 1]

10 hours ago, AtomicSpoon said:

Less fireballs inside RoP and more focus on burst inside RoP. How do you handle keeping from capping on RoP/PF at 2/3 charges respectively? Close to a combustion I see holding onto them, but say in between.

(Can you tell I haven't played a caster in forever?)

It shouldn't be difficult to not cap it. You blow through your cooldowns at the start of the fight and by the time your RoP is back up, you'll usually have 1-2 PF to use in it. In general you'll at that point probably almost be ready to use Flame On again, so you'll want to use a RoP + FlameOn + PF to do as big a burst as you can. It's just a matter of constantly gauging where your cooldowns stand in relation to eachother. You'll want to use them all at once as often as possible, while making sure they're also up for the following Combustion (2 PF should be enough for combustion if flame on is up). It takes some practice to do while doing the mechanics of a fight but it's certainly the way to go.  

Occasionally you might have a rune of power to use without much for cooldowns and that's fine since you don't want to be sitting at 2 charges but you want to minimise this as much as you can. 

[Kreegan 1]

9 hours ago, sidelsky18 said:

I found this thread from Google and strangely enough have the exact same problem as you AtomicSpoon.

Here is my log from our heroic Nyth kill tonight: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JNqPADXVp8LbkfRK/#type=damage-done&source=13

Our logs look fairly similar, but I think Kreegan is correct in saying that we are wasting our burst outside of RoP/Combustion too much.

I took a look at a couple minutes of the replayer of the fight https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JNqPADXVp8LbkfRK/#view=replay 

Things I noticed that can be improved to vastly increase dps:

You used combustion at the very start of the fight. By the time you finished with rop and time warp, 20% of it was gone and you hadn't done anything yet. Combustion should be cast just as you drop RoP (it's off the global cd so no reason to not time it perfectly as you start the burst).

:13 you cast a PF without RoP, then instant pyro, fire blast, instant pyro. As soon as you finished that burst, you dropped RoP and proceeded to hardcast 2 fireballs. I think it goes without saying what's wrong with the order here :P

:39 PF without RoP, which you could've used 15 secs later in your RoP where you ended up having to hardcast fireballs toward the end

1:05 PF without RoP, just save it

1:12 You got rot and used 2 scorches while running away. It doesn't appear that you're using Ice Floes. Pick that skill up so you can pretty much continue your rotation on the move instead of using scorch casts, which do very little dmg. 

1:27 A few problems here. Firstly, you cast combustion first again instead of RoP and wasted 2 seconds of it. 2nd, you started a burst phase right as phase 1 was ending and had to abandon ship. Pay attention to mechanic timings before going to your big burst. If a phase is ending or she's about to cast Rot, wait a few seconds to make sure you aren't going to be disrupted and then go for it. Third, your FlameOn would've been almost off CD as well so all the more reason to wait 5-10 more seconds so you can make the most of the combustion. Also, more scorches, ew!

It also appeared that several times, you would go fireball, fireblast for hot streak and then immediate instant pyro. It's better to carry that hot streak into the next fireball hardcast and then use the instant pyro as soon as the fireball finishes, and then go into the next fireball. Note that this is mainly for when you're outside the burst windows, because you should be using mostly instants within it. If you're already doing this then keep going, sometimes it's hard to tell in the replayer. 

I hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

 

[denthead 0]

Hi all,

I suspect I am having the same issues described above, as some of it sounds familiar i.e. dropping RoP outside of cooldowns, using PF willy nill, etc. but I am hoping someone who knows a thing or two can confirm that those are the issues and possibly find more, as I am parsing low in my ilvl bracket and overall.

Last night my guild ran heroic Nythendra through Il'gynoth and my ilvl comparison percentage was at highest 59 and at lowest something awful like 20ish. 

Here's a link to my timeline for the Ursoc kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z1 ... w=timeline

I've looked at comparisons with other mages who did way higher DPS in fights of similar length, and it appears that they're bursting higher than me generally, although like I said, I may just be low on CDs or using them incorrectly during these combustion phases.

I've also noticed that I tend to case pyroblast 10+ few times than top performing mages, so obviously that's factoring into it but I am not sure where I am flubbing that. 

Anyway, if anything sticks out to someone, please let me know, and thank you again for the help.

[sidelsky18 0]

8 hours ago, Kreegan said:

I took a look at a couple minutes of the replayer of the fight https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JNqPADXVp8LbkfRK/#view=replay 

Things I noticed that can be improved to vastly increase dps:

You used combustion at the very start of the fight. By the time you finished with rop and time warp, 20% of it was gone and you hadn't done anything yet. Combustion should be cast just as you drop RoP (it's off the global cd so no reason to not time it perfectly as you start the burst).

:13 you cast a PF without RoP, then instant pyro, fire blast, instant pyro. As soon as you finished that burst, you dropped RoP and proceeded to hardcast 2 fireballs. I think it goes without saying what's wrong with the order here :P

:39 PF without RoP, which you could've used 15 secs later in your RoP where you ended up having to hardcast fireballs toward the end

1:05 PF without RoP, just save it

1:12 You got rot and used 2 scorches while running away. It doesn't appear that you're using Ice Floes. Pick that skill up so you can pretty much continue your rotation on the move instead of using scorch casts, which do very little dmg. 

1:27 A few problems here. Firstly, you cast combustion first again instead of RoP and wasted 2 seconds of it. 2nd, you started a burst phase right as phase 1 was ending and had to abandon ship. Pay attention to mechanic timings before going to your big burst. If a phase is ending or she's about to cast Rot, wait a few seconds to make sure you aren't going to be disrupted and then go for it. Third, your FlameOn would've been almost off CD as well so all the more reason to wait 5-10 more seconds so you can make the most of the combustion. Also, more scorches, ew!

It also appeared that several times, you would go fireball, fireblast for hot streak and then immediate instant pyro. It's better to carry that hot streak into the next fireball hardcast and then use the instant pyro as soon as the fireball finishes, and then go into the next fireball. Note that this is mainly for when you're outside the burst windows, because you should be using mostly instants within it. If you're already doing this then keep going, sometimes it's hard to tell in the replayer. 

I hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much, that really helps!

 

One question: What is the best talent setup for "general use". I'd prefer not to have to change talents after every single boss (for single target and aoe).

Would Conflag / Unstable Magic / Cinderstorm be a good general setup? I believe Pyro, Unstable, and Kindling are best for single target and Conflag, Living Bomb, and Cinderstorm are best for aoe, right?

Edited September 28, 2016 by sidelsky18

[AtomicSpoon 0]

Seem to have mostly fixed the issues. Still a few errors, but substantial improvement. 

[Kreegan 1]

17 hours ago, denthead said:

Hi all,

I suspect I am having the same issues described above, as some of it sounds familiar i.e. dropping RoP outside of cooldowns, using PF willy nill, etc. but I am hoping someone who knows a thing or two can confirm that those are the issues and possibly find more, as I am parsing low in my ilvl bracket and overall.

Last night my guild ran heroic Nythendra through Il'gynoth and my ilvl comparison percentage was at highest 59 and at lowest something awful like 20ish. 

Here's a link to my timeline for the Ursoc kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z1 ... w=timeline

I've looked at comparisons with other mages who did way higher DPS in fights of similar length, and it appears that they're bursting higher than me generally, although like I said, I may just be low on CDs or using them incorrectly during these combustion phases.

I've also noticed that I tend to case pyroblast 10+ few times than top performing mages, so obviously that's factoring into it but I am not sure where I am flubbing that. 

Anyway, if anything sticks out to someone, please let me know, and thank you again for the help.

 

First thing, scorch is bad. If you're using it then you screwed up. 

PF was used 5 times out of RoP. I like to look at the replayer because it illustrates casts easier for me. I think the other things I've broken down in here would apply to you as well if you look at your log. I'll point out a fairly obvious example on yours. If you're doing it here it's probably being done at other points of the fights or in others too:

At around :37 seconds you go Instant pyro, fireblast, pyro, cancel fireball, pyro. As soon as you finished that, you dropped RoP, throw a PF+fireblast+pyro and then spent most of the rest of the RoP hardcasting fireballs. Can you imagine how much of a dps increase it would be if everytime you did a burst like :37, you were in the RoP instead of wasting it? Also, how much of an increase it would be if every PF was used to grant instant pyros also inside of RoP? Work on that and you won't be in the 20th percentile any longer. 

I looked a little further on and saw a few more things...

Your 2nd combustion was a mess which kills your dps. At 1:17 you used flameon, outside of RoP and with combustion about to come off CD. You have to use flameon during a burst with RoP and combustion if it's coming available. You put RoP down at 1:23 and then didn't combust until 1:32 and it was already finished. Massive dps loss in this area. You actually had to use scorch twice to generate crits in it. 

So out of curiosity I went to the 3rd combustion and it was a mess too. Used it then dropped RoP a couple seconds later, had to scorch during it etc. You have to work on saving instant spells for your burst windows. It's by far your biggest issue.  

 

 

 

[Valks 2,375]

Really glad to see everyone pitching in to help with the analysis. Thanks guys :)