Questions about Assassination

[Maruken 31]

I have a few questions about Assassination, looking at the guide didn’t really answer much.

 

Is Rupture worth using at 4 or less combo points?

Should you even attempt AoE damage since there’s no mention of it?

When is it beneficial to multi dot?

When is the best time to use Marked for Death?

When is the best time to use Kingsbane? (I figured that would be mentioned in the pooling segment, in the guide it says you should just use it off cooldown)

What’s the actual opening rotation? (steps 4 through 7 on the guide make 0 sense)

EDIT: Should you ever use Envenom at 4 Combo Points instead of 5 (or 5 instead of 6) like we used to in the past?

The one thing I definitely learnt from the guide was the little Vanish > Rupture trick, I thought that was neat, but some parts of the guide was kinda vague. Can someone help?

I copied and pasted from Google Docs, which is why it looks like this, I don't know how to change it, sorry.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Maruken

[Sempronius 0]

Hi Maruken,

This is just my personal 2 cents, others on here might have different advice.

• Rupture at 5 or 6 combo after vanish if possible, or 5 or 6 combo without vanish next, then less than 5 if it will fall off, main rule here is to not let rupture drop, even a 1 combo rupture buys you enough time to get back to 5 points to extend the rupture
• AOE is a challenge, if you get lucky and get the legendary that gives you a huge fan burst then it is more viable, but Assassin AOE doesn't come close to Outlaw, I created an outlaw build just for Il'gynoth since the outside phase is all small adds that die too fast and then AOE on the bloods, inside the chamber on that fight Assassin can do well, but you have save your CDs for that phase.
• Mutli-dotting I find to be viable on 2 or 3 mobs that are close, like on Xavius when the large add comes out, just tab target refresh rupture, then go back to the one you should be focusing on.
• I don't use MFD (not yet at least, but testing it) so I can't speak to that one.
• I use Kingsbane when I have 5 or 6 combo and pool energy to around 60 or so, that gets at least 2 full point envenoms off while the ability is active.
• I have 2 openings, one for an exsang build and one for a poison build, but they are roughly the same, poison first:
  • Stealth
  • pre-pot (they are expensive, but it makes a huge difference if you are pushing heroic or mythic)
  • I have a macro that I use from stealth that is /cast garrote then /cast vendetta
    • Garrote and Vendetta are on different cool downs so you can macro those two together and with the pre-pot you get 3x the damage, particularly if you have unlocked the golden dragon that adds the 300k dmg from vendetta
  • Mut to 5 or 6 combos
  • vanish
  • rupture
  • mut x2
  • kingsblade
  • envenom
  • mut x2 or x3
  • envenom
  • refresh garrote/rupt
• the bleed rotation I use is
  • stealth
  • pre-pot
  • garrote/vend macro
  • mut to 5 or 6
  • hemo
  • vanish
  • rupture
  • exsanguinate
  • mut x2
  • kingsblade
  • envenom
  • mut x2
  • refresh rupt/garrote (rupt is the priority it is normally 25-30% of your dps)
• The Evenom at 4 would be situational at best, if you have hemo getting to 5 should be fairly easy, if not then it might be fine, particularly if you have vanish and vendetta about to come off cool down and you want to get that envenom in before building points for a vend/vanish/rupture combo.

My raid team is 7/7 normal and 6/7 heroic so far and this has worked out, but again some fights just won't be good on Assassin, Il'gynoth is the most egregious example, but Cenarius can be a challenge too, any fight with a lot of adds is going to be hard for poisons that need time to ramp up damage.

 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Sempronius
corrected one mistyped item

[Carrn 284]

7 hours ago, Maruken said:

I have a few questions about Assassination, looking at the guide didn’t really answer much.

 

Is Rupture worth using at 4 or less combo points?

Should you even attempt AoE damage since there’s no mention of it?

When is it beneficial to multi dot?

When is the best time to use Marked for Death?

When is the best time to use Kingsbane? (I figured that would be mentioned in the pooling segment, in the guide it says you should just use it off cooldown)

What’s the actual opening rotation? (steps 4 through 7 on the guide make 0 sense)

EDIT: Should you ever use Envenom at 4 Combo Points instead of 5 (or 5 instead of 6) like we used to in the past?

The one thing I definitely learnt from the guide was the little Vanish > Rupture trick, I thought that was neat, but some parts of the guide was kinda vague. Can someone help?

I copied and pasted from Google Docs, which is why it looks like this, I don't know how to change it, sorry.

It depends. It's not ideal, but if you forget to refresh it and it's going to fall off, you can use a low cp one temporarily.

Honestly not really. Sin's kit really isn't meant to do AoE damage

Multi-dot on 2-3 targets that will live long enough to not waste time on Rupture. You need to make sure your Poisons are stacked up, as well as Rupture ticking on them, which means you need to swap around regularly.

You don't, as Sin

Once you have bleeds on, have saved to 5-6CP and high Energy, and are ready to spam out a lot of Envenoms. Typically just using it on cooldown, but you also want to make sure the target will live for a while to make it worth it

Garrote > Mut to 6CP > Vendetta > Vanish > Rupture. After that you really just default to your priority list 

5 instead of 6 is fine

[C02Equinox 0]

16 hours ago, Sempronius said:

• • I have a macro that I use from stealth that is /cast garrote then /cast vendetta
    • Garrote and Vendetta are on different cool downs so you can macro those two together and with the pre-pot you get 3x the damage, particularly if you have unlocked the golden dragon that adds the 300k dmg from vendetta

Why do you cast vendetta after garrote? Surely the damage bonus on garrote would outweigh the 40 energy you get back?

And if it doesn't, why not garrote, mute, then vendetta to make use of the full 100 energy refund?

 

I read somewhere (on here i think) that you should always use finishers at 6CP only. But mute gives you two which will essentially waste a combo point 50% of the time, depending on when your mute crits and garrote lines up. Is it better to waste the combo point and mute again or just envenom with 5?

[Mateuzeus 0]

why vanish before rupture?

[Case 1]

Nightstalker (tier 2 talent) buffs any damage when in stealth by 50%

[Sempronius 0]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 2:24 AM, C02Equinox said:

Why do you cast vendetta after garrote? Surely the damage bonus on garrote would outweigh the 40 energy you get back?

And if it doesn't, why not garrote, mute, then vendetta to make use of the full 100 energy refund?

 

I read somewhere (on here i think) that you should always use finishers at 6CP only. But mute gives you two which will essentially waste a combo point 50% of the time, depending on when your mute crits and garrote lines up. Is it better to waste the combo point and mute again or just envenom with 5?

You have a good point, I should at this point move the Vendetta cast to just after the Rupture or the Envenom for the energy return.  I had it earlier in the rotation when leveling and before filling in the artifact slots, and for easy of use (one button to rule them all).   For the combo points, at the start of a fight I find that crits are more common, not guaranteed but seem to happen a lot, and Seal Fate seems to get me to 5 cps with just 2 Mutilates more often than not and at times I'll see 6 cps from 2 Mutilates if they both crit.  That might just be perception on my part, I'll have to check the logs to see for sure, but if you need a third Mut to get to 5cp then I'd do it.

[Carrn 284]

3 hours ago, Sempronius said:

You have a good point, I should at this point move the Vendetta cast to just after the Rupture or the Envenom for the energy return.  I had it earlier in the rotation when leveling and before filling in the artifact slots, and for easy of use (one button to rule them all).   For the combo points, at the start of a fight I find that crits are more common, not guaranteed but seem to happen a lot, and Seal Fate seems to get me to 5 cps with just 2 Mutilates more often than not and at times I'll see 6 cps from 2 Mutilates if they both crit.  That might just be perception on my part, I'll have to check the logs to see for sure, but if you need a third Mut to get to 5cp then I'd do it.

 

On 03/10/2016 at 7:24 AM, C02Equinox said:

Why do you cast vendetta after garrote? Surely the damage bonus on garrote would outweigh the 40 energy you get back?

And if it doesn't, why not garrote, mute, then vendetta to make use of the full 100 energy refund?

 

I read somewhere (on here i think) that you should always use finishers at 6CP only. But mute gives you two which will essentially waste a combo point 50% of the time, depending on when your mute crits and garrote lines up. Is it better to waste the combo point and mute again or just envenom with 5?

No, Garrote before Vendetta is good, as is using a couple Muts. You want to spend as much Energy as you can before casting Vend as you get a refund through your artifact traits. 

You should always TRY for 6CP, but 5CP is fine if necessary. Don't Mut on 5CP and waste a bunch, but if you won't cap Energy by the time Garrote gets refreshed then you can and should wait.