Prot Warriors -Nerfed?

[Chrysanthana 0]

How much of a nerf is this really? Honestly is dosnt seem that bad to me.

-33% total IP sounds bad but then we also get our rage gen doubled from 10 rage per slam to 20 >.>

 

The biggest nerf really is to guilds that where using Inspire presence stacking IMO

[Proximity 0]

Hmmm, doesn't seem to be a "nerf" at all, but more of a kind of buff to me...

Rage generation has never been so low, so a up will make the rotation feel waaaay smoother. Besides that, the IP "nerf" only affects the total stackable amount of shield, so it's a big meh, since you should always try not to reach that limit anyways. If you're currently actively capping the IP limit, A) you're tanking low level content , B) You don't spend your rage correctly

On top of that, more rage generation means more survivability, so i'll gladly take that "nerf".

And for the inspire presence part, I wouldn't call it a nerf, I'd say it's a fix.

 

 

[Estarriol 167]

It is a nerf. The 33% nerf affects both each individual cast and the maximum stacked size. The wordind Blizzard chose was misleading, but it's easily verified in game. They also fixed the Vengeance nerf from last week ( IP was reduced by 45% instead of 35%).

The buff to Shield Slam makes the spec much more bearable to play in solo and very low damage content, but it does not nearly make up for the 33% hit to IP. The nerfs this week are extremely significant. Despite that, warriors are still okay.

[Allseye 96]

6 hours ago, Estarriol said:

It is a nerf. The 33% nerf affects both each individual cast and the maximum stacked size. The wordind Blizzard chose was misleading, but it's easily verified in game. They also fixed the Vengeance nerf from last week ( IP was reduced by 45% instead of 35%).

The buff to Shield Slam makes the spec much more bearable to play in solo and very low damage content, but it does not nearly make up for the 33% hit to IP. The nerfs this week are extremely significant. Despite that, warriors are still okay.

Thanks for this information, i couldn't find any officials yesterday. In the official Forum, there just has been a big guessing about what the 33% does exactly mean. So that means, that they did the following fixes?

- Reduce the factor (28) to about 18.5 to calculate the amount of absorbtion

- Reduce the max absorbotion from 3x IP to 2x IP

- Reduce the Cost-Reduction of Vengeance to 35% (from 45%)

- Increase ragegeneration from Shieldslam to 20 (from 10)

I do agree, that we're still okay with this nerf, but it's a big one (specially to reduce the factor). To nerf the max absorbtion was absolutly necessary. But the nerf (or how u call it fix) of Vengeance is a wrong way. In my opinion now it just make sense to use it with Ultimatum. Vengeance itself gives us now a to low ragegain  (we already discussed that in an other topic).

[Estarriol 167]

I agree. I think the Vengeance nerf in combination with this more recent nerf is overboard. One or the other would be okay on its own, but with both it's a 48% nerf. Yeah, we needed the nerf, but it's just too much, especially to be done in such a small time period. They should have done gradual nerfs if needed and kept adjusting by small amounts until a reasonable number was reached. 

I really don't feel the nerf to maximum stacked IP was needed at all due to the fact that the only time you're going to stack it that high is when you're taking no or minimal damage for extended periods of time. Granted, by the same token, it doesn't really have a large effect. 

[Proximity 0]

Just saw the "real" update change in Europe megaserver. Sadly, Estarriol is right, the nerf basically means a reduction of a third of our old Ignore Pain. Besides, getting over the loss of IP's efficiency, getting back a decent rage generation feels a lot better to the rotation. I now have zero to no problems getting full IP , even in solo content. It even feels better in term of survivability in dungeons.

[Chrysanthana 0]

So rage saved per vengance rotation is back to 3 from 7 now :<

[Allseye 96]

No, its even lower, its 1.5 rage if u use a full IP/FR combo. So u see, the real rage-save comes from a free FR (Ultimatum). Then u'll save around 20-21 rage with a full IP/FR combo. At the other hand, this makes our playstile much easier...just use FR with an ultimatum-procc. Otherwise the risk to "loose" rage is to high due to using FR to early :-D

[Bangkook 0]

Wouldn't this make weaving Battle Cry in even more important due to the rage it'll save with the free FR? It's a little dicey, as with 30% chance of reset, you could reset SS with every GCD or get no resets and only get off one free FR. I feel as though popping Battle Cry almost on CD would help the flow of getting the IP/FR combo off successfully and save as much rage now that the nerf to IP and the Vengeance fix are in place (although I wish, if they HAD to nerf IP, it would have only been a 15-20% nerf, not 33...).

[Allseye 96]

Sorry, after reading the post 3 times, i didn't get your point :-D.

I just can say after my raid today: the nerf is damn hard. My absorb feels like a joke, there is so much more dmg incoming now, feeling like a paper in the wind....blown away. Will be interesting to read your experiences.

[Proximity 0]

Seems like we gotta first find out the rage spent/ignore pain's shield ratio versus the rage gain from the new nerf to know the real impact of the october 3rd change.

Yes, 33% less to the maximum cap could be something while you're offtanking or tanking low damage content, but the rage generation increase to the shield bash is really something you guys should see at first. Intercept is now 10 rage, Revenge has always been a poor rage generator with a slight 5 rage, while shield bash used to generate half of what it is now, which is currently 20.

Having more rage generation means that you will be able to generate more shield off your extra rage. I doubt it would be enough to counter balance the 33% reduction from Ignore Pain, but it will absolutely impacts your rotation.

Not sure if anyone did the maths, but... It might be just not that bad of a nerf really.

[ruthless 0]

So I'm starting to think everyone commenting on this issue is just completely misinformed, because all I'm seeing is people saying "it's only max absorption so it isn't too bad" in referring to the ignore pain nerf, which is completely incorrect as ignore pains maximum absorb isn't the only thing that is affected, the damage absorbed per cast is also reduced by 33% and "well you get more rage now from shield slam" which is true, but what you seem to fail to realize is shield slam has always given 20 rage, it was just recently nerfed to 10 rage the week before the ignore pain nerf...so you're basically telling people to be happy that they got what they already had back up to par and slapped in the face with a bigger nerf. Don't get me wrong, prot warriors were definitely overpowered and needed to be toned down, but at this point they have just been nerfed into the ground...I feel like paper mache trying to tank mythic plus +5 at 860 IL...the nerf to vengeance was pretty hard, (went from spending 15 rage on focused rage to save 30 rage on ignore pain to spending 19 rage on focus rage to save 21 on ignore pain..this being after the initial cast of one of the two to get the buff going) so that's a ton of survivability already gone right there...and they also nerfed intercept rage gain from 20 to 10 which actually has a pretty big impact on our survivability on fights with a lot of movement, not to mention our rage going into a fight is half as much due to this nerf so that means were going to struggle going in to pulls that hit extremely hard like some of the rougher mythic plus groups. My point is, they have nerfed us entirely too much, too fast...I don't know how they calculated that a 33% nerf to our main survivability that the entire spec basically revolves around on top of nerfing our best talent basically making it completely pointless if not pairing it with ultimatum(which makes our shield slam criticals make our next focused rage free) but even with that it feels meh...considering that before we were saving 15 rage per shield slam/ignore pain cast sequence without crits and now we're relying on a crit to save 21. I was maining prot and loving it before but now I don't even enjoy it as it feels like I get completed shredded while trying to tank basic pulls in content I used to could mass pull in (again, I know warriors were overpowered before but I'm just trying to make the point that the nerf was too drastic). I can't speak for anyone else but I definitely won't be maining prot in it's current state as it just feels extremely weak.

[Allseye 96]

So, after reading that wall of text (next time try to use some space :-)), i have two remarks:

- First, i agree, u describe the same feeling that i have. I (or as far as i can say "we") also agree that we were overpowered. But now...i dont know how other tanking classes feels, but i feel a bit helpless. I can't really smooth the dmg spikes anymore. Shieldwall has a 4min CD...i can use it 1x in a fight. That's it. Demoshout helps a bit, but just a bit. Last stand just safes my ass for 1 hit, so in my opinion it's not a spell to reduce the dmg spikes.

- Second, i think you haven't read the whole posts. We really do understand what the nerf has done (see post of estarriol and mine up there)

 

Then i got a question this on MMO-Champion:

• (Protection) Fixed a bug where Vengeance could cause Ignore Pain to consume less Rage than intended, but absorb for more

Is this already fixed? Today i recognized that sometimes my absorb is higher. Is this fix already up (playing on an european-server)? That would mean the absorb is even lower...

[Proximity 0]

it is fixed. The full IP rotation now consumes 39 rage (prior to 33).

@ruthless My point is not to cry on how and why they nerfed the class, it's about what we're gonna need to do to deal with it now. If you just want to play a class because it is the shit and the class of the moment, you're gonna have a bad time on the game.

Remember how the Brewmasters monks sucked early in the extension? Now some amazing guys found how broken were the combination of a pair of legendaries, making the class itself on top of any other tanks.

If the class stinks, we'll get a up. That's pretty much about it. No whining, just analysis. :)

Edited October 6, 2016 by Proximity

[Allseye 96]

5 hours ago, Proximity said:

it is fixed. The full IP rotation now consumes 39 rage (prior to 33).

Thanks for trying, but this is not an answer to my question. Please read again the statement of the hotfix. My question is about the amount if absorb and not about the ragecost.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Allseye