Kalzifa91 3 Report post Posted June 24, 2013 Hi Guys, I'm always reading haste>crit>mastery as Priority for my states but at the point my haste is so high that with Bloodlust my Frostbolt is casting within 1.0 seconds I feel haste isn't that useful because I got the 30% buff via Bloodlust or the legendary meta procc that often that its uptime is sometimes beyond 70% of the boss fight. So at such a point wouldn't it be more benifical to get the crit cap and then push mastery up? I would like to get known to your experiences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted June 24, 2013 Haste will always be better than the other 2 stats... The problem is exactly what you are saying, that frost mage scaling is.... BAD. However, if you reforged some haste into any other stats, you would have a DPS loss. Unfortunately, as I mentioned above Frost scaling is very bad, and after a certain point, whatever you do, other mage specs will pull ahead. If you want to play around with stats and you have RPPM trinkets, go for Haste>Mastery>Crit :). Because of the high intellect procs, you will stand around the crit cap anyway, even without any reforge into crit. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalzifa91 3 Report post Posted June 24, 2013 Yeah I'm tryin stuff like that playin around with the armors too at the moment I'm playing with molten armor for crit cap and also havin enough haste though. Got a slightly dps increase that way but this could actually be a random event I'll get more information about that and tellin it to ya all. But thanks for the information Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted June 24, 2013 Yeah I'm tryin stuff like that playin around with the armors too at the moment I'm playing with molten armor for crit cap and also havin enough haste though. Got a slightly dps increase that way but this could actually be a random event I'll get more information about that and tellin it to ya all. But thanks for the information It is very cool that you are trying to improve and I'm looking forward to your results! Keep in mind tho, again, that intellect procs grant you Crit rating. When I was frost a few weeks ago, I was at 18% crit rating, unbuffed. With arcane brilliance, and molten armor, you get +10% more crit by which you'll get already capped. Now, if you get any int procs from trinkets (it's pretty likely..) or potion, or flask, literally anything, you will be OVER the 28% crit cap, making many stats going to the waste. If you want to try out different armors, you should actually try Mage armor. There's a thread about frost mage DPS and playing around with talents/glyphs on MMO-champion. I highly recommend you to read that. Good theory crafting. :) http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1302459-Frost-Haste-Caps-amp-You-Quick-Guide The truth to be told, because of frost's shitty scaling (it will be even worse in 5.4...), I ahve already switched to fire spec and yea.. it's not a huge difference in terms of DPS, but it will be in 5.4.. Fire scaling with crit is so broken. Arcane seems to be pretty decent, on the same level of Fire in high-end raid tiers. It just lacks the mobility, but if you have a look at Blatty's stream from method, he's completely fine with arcane and I will actually try out that spec just for fun next week. :) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalzifa91 3 Report post Posted June 24, 2013 Yeah I watch out for the proccs and dropt my crit down so it won't let me loose to many stats. Mage armor is next at testing with molten I got good dps output though. But I have to wait a little til I got an Raid where I can log the fights for some comparisons. And yeah I also tried fire but unfortunately I got very bad luck with my crits... although I use the pom alter time combo to get as many pyros as possible with most of my proccs I just dont get crits with them so there is noch chance for a big combustion. Because of that I'm playing frost. And also because I'm our Raidlead an need to watchout for other people in the raid to see possible mistakes and therefore frost ist more easy to play I think ;). Long story short I'll do my best to get useful information ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted June 24, 2013 I have read in a few topics on MMO-champion, that the most popular "haste cap" is 50% atm, if this helps you out. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalzifa91 3 Report post Posted June 24, 2013 well I'll see at the moment I'm playin at 26% unbuffed with that I'm very near at the 1 second breakpoint while having Bloodlust or Metaprocc. Burst dps is usually about 290-340k dps Singletarget sometimes even more that was with molten armor before I took the proccs into account. Wednesday I'll try Mage armor intensly to get more information. And apologize for my bad english but I'm german. Just wanted to make that point clear xD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tiagocal 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 Nice topic.. i have the same doubt... I also thinks ive got too much haste... 29% unbuffed.. i really think i waste dps with this... i dont know.. but is stranger.. im wondering when i get the legendary gem... lol http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/azralon/Kalimen/advanced my mage wtf.. i think i will try arcane Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 Nice topic.. i have the same doubt... I also thinks ive got too much haste... 29% unbuffed.. i really think i waste dps with this... i dont know.. but is stranger.. im wondering when i get the legendary gem... lol http://us.battle.net...alimen/advanced my mage wtf.. i think i will try arcane ahhh, no no no.... 29% haste is completely fine, don't worry... :) Most players actually go for a 50% haste cap, the truth to be told I was at 40% when I was frost and I'd say that that should the maximum. 1,2-1,3 sec FB cast with no haste procs. That is more or less perfect. Try fire. ;) It'll be a beast in 5.4 unless it gets nerfed on PTR. Arcane should do as well but I don't have personal experience with it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tiagocal 0 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 THanks bro.. i have tried fire.. but really... its strange for me to play.. at least with me.... i dont know.. but i think i have a srlys bad luck with the crits.. cya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalzifa91 3 Report post Posted June 28, 2013 Well due the fact that world of logs where in maintaince when I wanted to log I can just actually tell what my recount says at 26% haste unbuffed mage Armory provides 6 to 14k more dps then Frost Armor does in my case. Actually this is due the legendary meta gem which gives a very high BL uptime (sometimes nearly 70%). But this were only one test. When I got the time I'll do several LFR runs or things like that to check it out mor detailed. Til then cya ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted June 28, 2013 I've been strongly suspecting, that after X% haste Mastery will pull ahead. this is what I'm talking about... After 50% haste, your FB cast time is already at 1 sec and then, you get the meta gem procs etc. etc.. what a waste.. This is why people say that frost has no scaling... Fire has crit scaling... it's incredible. Arcane Mastery scaling.. again. Frost haste... waste after X% haste.. comeoooonnn... Keep on researching! :) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghanjo 37 Report post Posted June 29, 2013 Regarding the problems of stat scaling for Frost, there's a pretty interesting analysis of it over at Lhivera's Library, if you guys are interested: http://lhiveras-library.com/content/how-solve-frosts-soft-cap-problem 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalzifa91 3 Report post Posted July 30, 2013 So I now did some Raids and at the moment it seems like havin about 36% of haste while frostarmor ist active is kinda breakpoint for haste. Stacking it higher than that instead of start stacking some extra mastery seems like a dps lost to me. But at the moment we'll have to wait what the new mastery system for frostmages turns out to be I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emagunner 0 Report post Posted August 12, 2013 I have a similar question. My Self-buffed haste is 33% at the moment. I am fully gemmed for haste. But i just got the legendary meta, and i also have the shado pan trinket and the herbalism haste CD. As you said haste is still better than the other stats, but in this case would be wiser to change my gemming towards intellect instead? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted August 13, 2013 No. Haste is only a waste if it is over 50% with raid buffs. Although, the recent 5.4 changes are not clear yet with Mastery, but for now Haste is still the best secondary stat. Depending on your raid setup, your required base haste level can vary. I strongly believe that Kalzifa91 was referring to PTR as well. Also try to read thgough the topic, please. We could only give the same answers and link the same theorycrafting tha Gambolputty linked. http://lhiveras-library.com/content/how-solve-frosts-soft-cap-problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emagunner 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2013 Thanks, although i was referring to Int gemming which in general seems to be on par with haste gemming. I still have to try the legendary meta since my helm is 496 so i have not equipped it. I hope it is as good as it sounds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted August 13, 2013 Thanks, although i was referring to Int gemming which in general seems to be on par with haste gemming. I still have to try the legendary meta since my helm is 496 so i have not equipped it. I hope it is as good as it sounds. What I also meant by my previous post Haste gemming is worth it as long as you don't go over the 50% haste, raid buffed. Until you reach that it doesn't really matter. After you reached that "cap" you should switch to int gems definitely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
