Help me master my sin spec

[Kimbo 1]

Okay so I rerolled from outlaw to sin a while ago and doing really well, happy to be topping the dps in the guild (7/7 HC). 

Reading and always trying to improve and master my sin spec. So I picked up Agonizing poison and eleborate planning is supposed to scale better than exanguinate+hemo which has been my spec so far. Here's my armory, great stats for bleed spec and at 861 avarage il atm. 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/jaedenar/Kîmbo/advanced

Do you think i could push slightly higher dps with poison build or is my mastery too low? Perhaps stick to bleedbuild untill i reach (how much mastery atleast for poison build to be better?) 

Also, could use some tips how to keep EP 15% dmg buff up with poison specif im supposed to change to poison build. Just waiting with the full comopoints to envenom/reapply rupture until the buff is about to run out ? (Unless u have full evergy u just use a finisher..?)

Final question; Kingsbane..you obviously wanna use it after exanguinate (if ure running that build even) so u can get the full duration bleed effect. Apart from that, when is it smartest to use it? With full energy so u can spamm some mutis/envenoms while u have the kingsbane debuff on the target or am I missing

[Carrn 284]

On 10/17/2016 at 2:39 PM, Kimbo said:

Final question; Kingsbane..you obviously wanna use it after exanguinate (if ure running that build even) so u can get the full duration bleed effect. Apart from that, when is it smartest to use it? With full energy so u can spamm some mutis/envenoms while u have the kingsbane debuff on the target or am I missing

Kingsbane isn't a bleed

 

On 10/17/2016 at 2:39 PM, Kimbo said:

Also, could use some tips how to keep EP 15% dmg buff up with poison specif im supposed to change to poison build. Just waiting with the full comopoints to envenom/reapply rupture until the buff is about to run out ? (Unless u have full evergy u just use a finisher..?)

You don't keep it up all the time, that's the point. You pool Energy, spend it when you have a damage buff, then pool again

On 10/17/2016 at 2:39 PM, Kimbo said:

Do you think i could push slightly higher dps with poison build or is my mastery too low? Perhaps stick to bleedbuild untill i reach (how much mastery atleast for poison build to be better?) 

Trying it is the only way to know

[Kimbo 1]

3 minutes ago, Carrn said:

Kingsbane isn't a bleed

 

You don't keep it up all the time, that's the point. You pool Energy, spend it when you have a damage buff, then pool again

Trying it is the only way to know

Did try it last night. I hit the dummy for around 5mins with both spec and got pretty much the same result with both builds (AP and EP) & (Hemo & Exang). At 300k ish in the end as both. So used to hemo so i dont like EP, guess I just gotta get jsed to it, im nowhere close keeping EP up on single target tho..feels like 50% uptime and thats why I like hemo more dunno. Am I supposed to envenom at 3cp or how am I supposed to rotate on single target with AP & EP build. I mean apart from when I vendetta i never really get 6cp envenoms off if i wanna have a good uptime on EP? :/

[Kimbo 1]

Just now, Kimbo said:

Did try it last night. I hit the dummy for around 5mins with both spec and got pretty much the same result with both builds (AP and EP) & (Hemo & Exang). At 300k ish in the end as both. So used to hemo so i dont like EP, guess I just gotta get jsed to it, im nowhere close keeping EP up on single target tho..feels like 50% uptime and thats why I like hemo more dunno. Am I supposed to envenom at 3cp or how am I supposed to rotate on single target with AP & EP build. I mean apart from when I vendetta i never really get 6cp envenoms off if i wanna have a good uptime on EP? :/

Exanguinate still cuts of half the duration of Kingsbane though? :/

[Kimbo 1]

On 2016-10-17 at 3:39 PM, Kimbo said:

Okay so I rerolled from outlaw to sin a while ago and doing really well, happy to be topping the dps in the guild (7/7 HC). 

Reading and always trying to improve and master my sin spec. So I picked up Agonizing poison and eleborate planning is supposed to scale better than exanguinate+hemo which has been my spec so far. Here's my armory, great stats for bleed spec and at 861 avarage il atm. 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/jaedenar/Kîmbo/advanced

Do you think i could push slightly higher dps with poison build or is my mastery too low? Perhaps stick to bleedbuild untill i reach (how much mastery atleast for poison build to be better?) 

Also, could use some tips how to keep EP 15% dmg buff up with poison specif im supposed to change to poison build. Just waiting with the full comopoints to envenom/reapply rupture until the buff is about to run out ? (Unless u have full evergy u just use a finisher..?)

Final question; Kingsbane..you obviously wanna use it after exanguinate (if ure running that build even) so u can get the full duration bleed effect. Apart from that, when is it smartest to use it? With full energy so u can spamm some mutis/envenoms while u have the kingsbane debuff on the target or am I missing

Its still a little unclear to me how to use EP on single target, what factors and what dmg buffs am I looking for before using envenom? When to pool energy and when to pop something for EP? When to use EP at for example at 3cb instead of 6 etc? 

Thanks !

[lipsinch 46]

Exsanguinate doesn't cut Kingsbane duration, it's not a bleed. It's a poison.

From what I saw in the current logs in WCL, usually people tend to have around 60 to 70% Elaborate Planning uptime. You should be pooling enough energy to dump at least 2 Mutilates after Envenom.

About 3 or 6 CP usage, I haven't looked this yet, so I can't inform you.

[Derby 15]

On 10/17/2016 at 9:39 AM, Kimbo said:

Okay so I rerolled from outlaw to sin a while ago and doing really well, happy to be topping the dps in the guild (7/7 HC). 

Reading and always trying to improve and master my sin spec. So I picked up Agonizing poison and eleborate planning is supposed to scale better than exanguinate+hemo which has been my spec so far. Here's my armory, great stats for bleed spec and at 861 avarage il atm. 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/jaedenar/Kîmbo/advanced

Do you think i could push slightly higher dps with poison build or is my mastery too low? Perhaps stick to bleedbuild untill i reach (how much mastery atleast for poison build to be better?) 

Also, could use some tips how to keep EP 15% dmg buff up with poison specif im supposed to change to poison build. Just waiting with the full comopoints to envenom/reapply rupture until the buff is about to run out ? (Unless u have full evergy u just use a finisher..?)

Final question; Kingsbane..you obviously wanna use it after exanguinate (if ure running that build even) so u can get the full duration bleed effect. Apart from that, when is it smartest to use it? With full energy so u can spamm some mutis/envenoms while u have the kingsbane debuff on the target or am I missing

 

1.  I would guess that your mastery is too low for AP to overtake Exsanguinate, but you don't need to rely on my (or anyone else's) best guesses.  You should run sims on your character specced both ways and use that as the basis for your determination.

2.  Unlike Envenom's buff, EP has a flat 5 second duration regardless of how many combo points you expend on a finisher.  That means it becomes a question of, "Do I get more damage by allowing for some downtime on EP while building more CP for finishers, or using more, smaller-CP finishers for higher EP uptime?"  The ultimate goal is to get to all 6 CP finishers with as close to 100% EP uptime as possible (since abilities don't snapshot damage), which you achieve through increasing your critical strike chance and thereby generating faster CP through mutilate.  I run MP/AP personally, so I can't comment on what the sweet spot is for Envenom CPs and EP uptime.

3.  This question is interesting, because the answer is yes but probably not for the reason you think.  Kingsbane will increase in damage-per-tick the more application of poisons you do during its active duration.  Timing your Kingsbane with Exsanguinate will mean more energy generation > more mutliates > more theoretical applications of poison during its duration > more Kingsbane damage.  Kingsbane will NOT benefit from Exsanguinate's damage compression effect, but that's fine since its on a fixed CD anyway.

As for how to use EP on single targets, my gut tells me keep it up as much as you can so Rupture gets more of the 15% bonus.  The more crit you have, the more CP you will be able to accumulate for finishers while maintaining a high EP uptime.  100% is infeasible, but I think conventional wisdom is 4-6 CP Envenoms and 6 CP Ruptures for "best" results.  Like others have said, 70%ish uptime seems to be an acceptable target.  Run some logs with different CP pooling methods and see how they stack up.