T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Soulzar 42]

And yet he still manages a bunch of soulfires after that.

 

You don't have to believe me, but it worked fine for me. Anyway, take a stopwatch and time it (might aswell use the blood legion kill). My intervals were all above 2 seconds. Even the ones at 25+ stacks.

 

 

Dunno why I still bother, but it's fun :b

 

http://youtu.be/Yv5jnLH2VoY?t=1m for a minute there, no unending resolve, no devotion aura, successful casts of soulfire even above 25 stacks.

Who knows, maybe Sparks and me are just getting different Thok than anyone else? Silly dinos

 

1.5s Soulfire casts is not "above 2 seconds"

 

As far as I can see, Thok seems to cap at 1.5s GCD which means with enough haste and good timing you can fit a MC SF between interrupts.  This seems like a good fight to stack a bit more haste.

[mediocregatsby 18]

Updating stuff for hotfixes today.

 

Destruction is #1 single target INCLUDING SET BONUSES. That means that before t16 set bonuses destruction is a decent bit ahead. Affliction is close behind though, demo trails in the back by a large 15k gap (~5%).

 

Unerring is 5k ahead of other normal mode trinkets single target, and can't compete with any heroic trinkets from SoO. Plus it is generally just awful to use now, I'd recommend no one touching that trinket ever.

can you post logs of destro in SOO? i am having a hard time believing this. what stat priorities are you using for destro?

 

edit: 

the best post-nerf malkorok kills for destro can barely break 290k http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Siege_of_Orgrimmar/Malkorok/25N/Destruction_Warlock/

 

meanwhile, affliction and demo kills are busting 330k http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Siege_of_Orgrimmar/Malkorok/25N/Affliction_Warlock/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Siege_of_Orgrimmar/Malkorok/25N/Demonology_Warlock/

 

note that some of those top parses are getting pretty damn lucky with perfect aim procs, so look at the top 100 instead of the top 5. affliction and demo are 250-270k and destro is 200k.

Edited September 26, 2013 by mediocregatsby

[Annoroth 5]

can you post logs of destro in SOO? i am having a hard time believing this. what stat priorities are you using for destro?

 

As far as I'm aware, it was a SimC bug with Immo. 

[Khaos 5]

How's demonology doing atm? 

I think on garrosh demo is the way to go , it feels like i could do a lot more than affli does atm but i don't know how it's doing number wise , with the imp nerf and all that.

[Omaric 246]

Demonology still does very respectable DPS, but I wouldn't use it over Affliction on Garrosh I don't think.  The numbers Affliction puts out on that fight is ridiculous.  I definitely couldn't get close to it with Destruction.  I may try Demo on it though.

[Khaos 5]

Demonology still does very respectable DPS, but I wouldn't use it over Affliction on Garrosh I don't think.  The numbers Affliction puts out on that fight is ridiculous.  I definitely couldn't get close to it with Destruction.  I may try Demo on it though.

 

How so? maybe a stupid question cause we just started tonight , but on adds it looks like a bit more splash damage might be good.

[Twona 1]

I've been destro for Garrosh and I don't think I could play another spec for it. Phase 1 F&B and havoc for weapons is just too good to pass down. The DoTless burst for MC'd people is also fantastic.

[Omaric 246]

How so? maybe a stupid question cause we just started tonight , but on adds it looks like a bit more splash damage might be good.

 

Well with UVLS I'm spreading insane DoT's to every add and bursting for over 2 million DPS in the opener.  I feel like all the critting numbers are slowing my system down.

[zombiecurse 0]

Well with UVLS I'm spreading insane DoT's to every add and bursting for over 2 million DPS in the opener.  I feel like all the critting numbers are slowing my system down.

 

You're still using demo UVLS eh? On which fights? I was hoping someone would open a discussion on this after the dust settled.

[mediocregatsby 18]

if you're progressing on garrosh, you should pick a spec based on your raid's needs. all 3 specs are viable and good for the fight.

- raid can't kill 1 add wave before next wave comes? go destro

- raid doesn't have enough interrupts for empowered MCs in p3? go demo and carrion swarm that shit

- raid isn't pushing garrosh fast enough? go demo/afflic

- assigned to bitch duty on weapons or engineers? go afflic/destro

 

if your raid has no particular needs and is already farming the boss then imo affliction is probably the highest dps spec

[Omaric 246]

You're still using demo UVLS eh? On which fights? I was hoping someone would open a discussion on this after the dust settled.

 

That's Affliction UVLS.  :)

 

I'm currently Affliction/Destruction, but I'll be testing out Demo again soon.

[zombiecurse 0]

That's Affliction UVLS. 

 

I'm currently Affliction/Destruction, but I'll be testing out Demo again soon.

 

Oh, alright, didn't catch that. I (like a lot of other people I think) switched my UVLS out for a Wushoolay's and paired it up with 548 bindings. Definitely not complaining about the numbers I'm getting off that pairing, but I do miss throwing out UVLS/bindings buffed dots and soul swapping everything straight to hell. Maybe I'll pull UVLS off the bench and see what happens tonight.

[gahhda 95]

Destruction and affliction are essentially tied single target now. It isn't a bug with simc, the values are correct at a 15% incinerate buff and a 30% immolate buff with the additional 15% chance to proc an ember on incinerate and conflagrate. I checked all values vs in game numbers last night and they were identical.

 

Demo is behind 5% single target, which doesn't count it out, it just has very lackluster mechanics for most fights this tier compared for affli/destro.

 

Malkorok isn't pure single target, any movement involved will drop destructions dps below affliction quickly. Not to mention the fact that the fight is half the duration of basically every other fight in the tier. All of the logs of demo since the hotfixes still have uvls and still have 100% crit rate on doom on the kills because the fight only lasts 3.5 minutes. The shorter a fight becomes the less value destruction has versus the other two specs which clearly have higher single target burst but relatively even sustained.

 

Then you look at the fact the the warlocks posting said logs have an unfair bias away from destruction meaning the parses will inherently be lower.

 

On top of that the heroic parses haven't been updated yet and most of the bosses have 'normal mode' kills that are actually bugged heroic parses. I ranked #3 on galakras 10n on our heroic kill this week.

 

On top of all of this, affliction will always have a higher max parse available because ITS FRIGGEN RNG. If you get 8 fucking wushoo procs back to back as affliction in a 3.5 minute fight chances are you're going to stomp anything a destro could possibly do.

Edited September 26, 2013 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,982]

RNG affecting DPS parses?  Blasphemy.

 

Anyways, for those who are panicking or arguing Destro isn't viable single target, I can tell you it very much is.  I do just as much ST as Destro as I do Affliction.  RNG affects this greatly, but with double ramp up trinkets (Wush + BBoY), my first two Chaos Bolts hit for 1.8-2.2M and my DoTs are mega retardedly empowered as Aff.  The specs themselves are close enough that you should play what helps your group the best.  Don't pick a spec because it's '1% better' than the others.  Regardless of how they sim, you'll never theoretically match simcraft numbers because *drumroll* RNG!  Trinkets, meta procs, cape procs, and RNG within the specs will vary parses so much, there is no RIGHT answer. 

 

Demo is the most complex spec and doesn't reward the highest damage anymore.  I know Demo is still 'fine' but if you're playing Demo over Affliction on 2-3 targets, you're not doing it right and you're holding yourself back.  If you try to argue with logs, I'm going to go to the buffs gained tab and show you why RNG of a good Demo parse can carry over the average Affliction parses.  Sometimes you can't read the numbers and make conclusions...you have to actually THINK about what is going on, what tools you have available for the situation, and how best to execute them. 

[JvChequer 43]

Gahhda, you did this with wich ilvl?

[gahhda 95]

Gahhda, you did this with wich ilvl?

 

t16n 2/2.

Edited September 27, 2013 by gahhda

[Nyanchan 2]

RNG affecting DPS parses?  Blasphemy.

 

Anyways, for those who are panicking or arguing Destro isn't viable single target, I can tell you it very much is.  I do just as much ST as Destro as I do Affliction.  RNG affects this greatly, but with double ramp up trinkets (Wush + BBoY), my first two Chaos Bolts hit for 1.8-2.2M and my DoTs are mega retardedly empowered as Aff.  The specs themselves are close enough that you should play what helps your group the best.  Don't pick a spec because it's '1% better' than the others.  Regardless of how they sim, you'll never theoretically match simcraft numbers because *drumroll* RNG!  Trinkets, meta procs, cape procs, and RNG within the specs will vary parses so much, there is no RIGHT answer. 

 

Demo is the most complex spec and doesn't reward the highest damage anymore.  I know Demo is still 'fine' but if you're playing Demo over Affliction on 2-3 targets, you're not doing it right and you're holding yourself back.  If you try to argue with logs, I'm going to go to the buffs gained tab and show you why RNG of a good Demo parse can carry over the average Affliction parses.  Sometimes you can't read the numbers and make conclusions...you have to actually THINK about what is going on, what tools you have available for the situation, and how best to execute them. 

 

I agree with you, but i still think demo performs stupidly well in some niche fights. My progression so far in heroic is at the metallic scorpion so i cant say anything about the remaining fights but for example immersus and sha are encounters where demo aoe annihilates stuff so quickly it almost nullifies the mechanic for other people. Which is why Affli with demo OS for niche fights sounds more appealing to me. Other than the "add A has to die super quick" scenario i cant see destro being better than affli.

 

I miss demo single target dps so much =(

Edited September 27, 2013 by Nyanchan

[gahhda 95]

I agree with you, but i still think demo performs stupidly well in some niche fights. My progression so far in heroic is at the metallic scorpion so i cant say anything about the remaining fights but for example immersus and sha are encounters where demo aoe annihilates stuff so quickly it almost nullifies the mechanic for other people. Which is why Affli with demo OS for niche fights sounds more appealing to me. Other than the "add A has to die super quick" scenario i cant see destro being better than affli.

 

I miss demo single target dps so much =(

 

Other then the fact that destruction has more burst aoe dps with the buffs now removing demos niche .

Edited September 27, 2013 by gahhda

[Nyanchan 2]

Other then the fact that destruction has more burst aoe dps with the buffs now removing demos niche .

 

Wait how? Could you elaborate? Im not talking about council style fights but the adds of immersus or sha of pride.

 

Demo: 2 Purple aoe thing, meta immolation aura, 2 fel guards spining, void ray, and push (glyphed)

 

Destro: rain of fire, fire and brimstone(incinerate/conflagrate/immolate)

 

 

Edit: Plus Demonology is more beefy so it makes it easier to survive if you happen to get aggro of the adds.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Nyanchan

[gahhda 95]

Go watch methods blackfuse video. Sparkuggz played destruction LAST WEEK, as in before the incinerate/immolate buffs. Between dropping mannoroth's RoF ontop of FaB Immolate the burst aoe for destruction is just as off the charts as demo. Demo may still win in pure burst, but destro stomps it for anything even relatively sustained such as blackfuse.

 

Stomp is a relative term from a heroic raiding perspective, demo aoe is perfectly fine and pretty close to destruction, this recent set of buffs pushed destruction to what I would call an unbalanced level.

Edited September 27, 2013 by gahhda

[Nyanchan 2]

Go watch methods blackfuse video. Sparkuggz played destruction LAST WEEK, as in before the incinerate/immolate buffs. Between dropping mannoroth's RoF ontop of FaB Immolate the burst aoe for destruction is just as off the charts as demo. Demo may still win in pure burst, but destro stomps it for anything even relatively sustained such as blackfuse.

 

Stomp is a relative term from a heroic raiding perspective, demo aoe is perfectly fine and pretty close to destruction, this recent set of buffs pushed destruction to what I would call an unbalanced level.

 

Then i guess theres really no reason to go for demo anymore, destro's aoe is based on mastery right?, So i can go affli 9k haste mark and rest on mastery to have affli as mainspec with destro aoe OS?

[Lockybalboa 618]

 Between dropping mannoroth's RoF ontop of FaB Immolate the burst aoe for destruction is just as off the charts as demo.

 

He was running KJC

[gahhda 95]

He was running KJC

That would matter if the example I cited was related to the topic of burst dps, blackfuse is a sustained battle, which is why he played destro. Just pointing out that on a fight like sha of pride manno + rof = hilarious.

[Lockybalboa 618]

That would matter if the example I cited was related to the topic of burst dps, blackfuse is a sustained battle, which is why he played destro. Just pointing out that on a fight like sha of pride manno + rof = hilarious.

 

 

I understand that, but most people reading it will only understand the small idea of exactly what you say. They won't look at the forest in front of them, but only at the trees you point at. That's why I noted that he wasn't running MF, but KJC. 

[Zagam 1,982]

Wait how? Could you elaborate? Im not talking about council style fights but the adds of immersus or sha of pride.

 

Demo: 2 Purple aoe thing, meta immolation aura, 2 fel guards spining, void ray, and push (glyphed)

 

Destro: rain of fire, fire and brimstone(incinerate/conflagrate/immolate)

 

 

Edit: Plus Demonology is more beefy so it makes it easier to survive if you happen to get aggro of the adds.

What I do on Heroic Immerseus is Mannoroth's Fury a Rain of Fire on a big pack of adds, flip up Fire and Brimstone, and Immolate, Conflagrate, Incinerate x 3.  Everything disappears, and there's no need to be close to them like Demonology requires.  Demo requires manipulation of your Felguard/Wrathguard as well as relative proximity to accomplish its AoE.  Destro can rock and roll from 40 yards away with quicker, easier to control mechanics, and it's sustainable forever unlike Demonology's ridiculous cost on Void Ray and having to go in and out of Metamorphosis.  Same goes with Sha of Pride.  When you get into Heroic Sha of Pride, you'll realize the necessity for BURST for Corrupted Crystals, Manifestations of Pride, and the smaller adds.  Demonology just CANNOT switch to Manifestations of Pride quickly.  Know what can?  Havoc Sha of Pride, fire off a Chaos Bolt at it, Conflagrate, then fire another Chaos Bolt.  If you can kill the Manifestation of Pride before his second cast, you're essentially removing a mechanic.  When you break people out of the pac-man phase quicker, you're removing a mechanic.  The small adds that come out are not meant to be nuked down...they don't hurt.  Our tanks hold them, so I use Rain of Fire on them to fuel the spamming of Chaos Bolt on Sha.

 

Just as said before, Demo isn't a dead spec...Destruction just offers a TON of utility and uses in a lot of Heroic mechanics.  It's just like Ra-Den...watch the early videos.  Chaos Bolt was the answer to the need to kill the orbs before they reached him. 

 

And Demonology isn't more 'beefy' to survive adds coming.  Meta provides some armor, but you're not going to live like a tank.  Also, if you're pulling aggro, either you're being over-aggressive or your tanks are being too passive.  In terms of survivability, Destro wins HANDS down.  Fel Imp's Cauterize is a hugely overlooked heal, and Ember Tap is just ridiculous when you stack Mastery.  Mine heals me for 275k non-crit and only costs an Ember.  My healers have already recognized on spread out fights like Heroic Immerseus that they can just ignore me for healing purposes.