T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Zagam 1,982]

 

This is a rockstar post.  Thanks for all that info.  Going to ask if I can poach some for my guide...

[Zagam 1,982]

Now I am confused don't yo want to pool ember for when its about off CD so you can get the max amount of CB off during it?

 

I swear I ran you say or saw the guide at one point say if DSI < 30 sec use embers on proc - if DSI> 30 sec pool the embers.

 

I have both Purified Bindings of Immerseus and Kardris' Toxic Totem so of course it rocks with both proc - but do I now only use DSI when it off CD and only if one of these trinkets procs are up?

 

When one trinket procs do I just spam CB until it expires / out of embers and keep using CB as embers fill if the proc will be up still when CB cast is finished?

 

Also with flex 4 opening this week I have a chance to get BBOY I kow the bindings is BIS but do I want the BBOY over Toxic Totem or does the Multstrike win out?

 

Also since Bindings is BIS do I use it regardless of others-  like I have LFR version so do I get rid of it if I get BBOY and toxic in Flex? My group will be working on Iron Jud so we close to being able to take on shaman but until than I using LFR trinkets as those are the only ones I gotten (do LFR, Flex, and Normal)

Dark Soul:Insanity is a nice CD, but it's not as impressive as the Int procs on trinkets.  If you had to choose one or the other, you'd use DS:I to generate embers and bust them during Int procs.  Since you're toting around 2 LFR trinkets, you're not seeing as large of an effect, but as your trinkets improve, you'll see a much bigger Chaos Bolt average.  You're correct in that quote when I said to pool embers and spend during DS:I...that was before this tier...there are adjustments that should be made.  There's no way 30% Crit is better than 10k Intellect for Chaos Bolt.  If you can stack DS:I WITH a trinket, that is, of course, ideal.  Sorry for the confusion.  Multistrike is solid if you're using GoSac.  It's a very solid trinket with a dependable proc.  BBoY requires excellent execution within a 5 second window to maximize its use.  If you are PERFECT with BBoY, it'll be slightly better, but it'll be easier and more reliable given movements, fight mechanics, and timing to use PBI + KTT.

 

DS Instability isn't really that impressive for destro. Better to build embers with it and dump CBs into boss with big int procs.

 

Managing stack trinkets like BBOY is really about being comfortable with how good your latency is/how much haste you have. Knowing at what point you can fire off that LOL70K INT PROC CB is pretty much a matter of that (on that note, guh wish I was either a West Coast player or we had more people to push to move to a CST server).

Correct.  For me, it's beginning the cast RIGHT as the timer hits 8.  That gives me 3.0 seconds for a 2.6 second cast.  If I'm off by even half a global, I consume 3 stacks of Backdraft to get my CB off with procs, but I curse at myself for screwing up my rotation. 

 

I'd say those are the biggest factors in a fight where you can always reliably plant your feet long enough to fling one or two precisely timed CBs. Most fights have components where you can't however. There have been so many times where I've had 2+ embers pooled and Bindings + Wush proc together and I get all giddy loading up for massove crits, only for some or other fight mechanic pop off and I'll have to move. Super frustrating. I'd take KTT over stacking trinkets for pretty much all destro fights.

So many times this on Heroic Malkorok.  Oh, 7 stack of BBoY and KTT just proc'd?  NICE, MEGA CHAOS BOLT INCOMI....son of a *%#()@ SCREW YOU MALK, QUIT KNOCKING ME UP IN THE AIR!  At least I got a couple of 600k Incinerates in :(  Lots of these instances.  Every week I pray for Bindings so I can lock that up with my Heroic KTT...some day....some day...

[Soulzar 42]

That Nazgrim chart is pro, going to help us a lot this week as he is next, thanks a bunch.

 

So looking at that chart, it would seem the best place to tank the boss would be around blue so that melee and tanks can cleave/stun the adds spawning at blue/green/purple as there are no shamans spawning in that area until wave 9.  Ranged can nuke down the shaman at yellow while melee take care of the priority add that spawns at either of those 3 spawn locations.

[Typecast 16]

That Nazgrim chart is pro, going to help us a lot this week as he is next, thanks a bunch.

 

So looking at that chart, it would seem the best place to tank the boss would be around blue so that melee and tanks can cleave/stun the adds spawning at blue/green/purple as there are no shamans spawning in that area until wave 9.  Ranged can nuke down the shaman at yellow while melee take care of the priority add that spawns at either of those 3 spawn locations.

Tank at blue or green unless nazgrim is in defensive or you are going to burn the boss the last 10%.  Tank him where he starts during those two situations.  If your healers can react quickly, have them tank the sniper near green.  We also assign 1 range to help the whoever is the melee that is interrupting with the first interrupt just because they wont be in range of it all the time.  The shaman in wave 9 isnt too bad as long as you keep it stunlocked.  It should be the priority target that wave anyway.

 

This is a rockstar post.  Thanks for all that info.  Going to ask if I can poach some for my guide...

Go for it! If anyone has info on the spawns of wave 12 of the nazgrim fight or have a video that has it shown, I can update that table. Edited October 15, 2013 by Typecast

[Nytemare 2]

Yeah gets old have all trinkets proc + jade spirit + DSI + Eng tinker, and get almost done with a CB and get knocked up, or have to move because if I don't I dead instantly.

 

So would it be best to save DSI for when one of the trinkets procs - of course both up would be best - or is that a dps lost to save DSI for only when procs happen? when i use AD I use it ever minute with my eng tinker so just like to know ways to get my dps up better.

 

Yeah LFR trinkets will get replaced, had no luck getting better bindinds not dropping them and bonus roll keeps given me cloak (don't know why blizz felt the need to include cloaks with 9/10 people will have legendary - should have the system remove them from the personal loot / loot table if you got legendary cloak or everyone in party has it), and we failed on shaman Monday on last pull we had him to 20% best pull and they just up and reset, but that was end of our raid time)

 

I do flex every week trying to get flex version to hold me off until I can get normal ones (so I want both KTT + PBI) or do I want to try and get a BBoY?

[Omaric 246]

Nytemare:  Don't hold onto DS:I unless you're about to get into Execute range or Nazgrim is about to go into Berserker stance.  Anything that would allow you to get more use out of it.  Otherwise don't waste uptime on it hoping for procs.

 

For trinkets, keep shooting for KTT and PBI.  If you get a BBoY first then use it.

[Soulzar 42]

So on Heroic Malkorok, I understand the mechanic of orbs removing shield and doing damage and why they are soaked during the phase where you can get healed up... however...

 

I am curious if Dark Bargain would allow you to soak outside of that phase.  Would the talent allow you to soak a bunch within the 8 second window (preventing the 150k dmg per) and get a big heal just before it expires to get a shield on you to soak the 50% dmg ticks?

 

We run with 2 locks in our 10 man, which if this worked could really help keep a large portion of the room less cluttered in the first phase, or less cluttered around players that derp repeatedly on hitting orbs...

[Zagam 1,982]

So on Heroic Malkorok, I understand the mechanic of orbs removing shield and doing damage and why they are soaked during the phase where you can get healed up... however...

 

I am curious if Dark Bargain would allow you to soak outside of that phase.  Would the talent allow you to soak a bunch within the 8 second window (preventing the 150k dmg per) and get a big heal just before it expires to get a shield on you to soak the 50% dmg ticks?

 

We run with 2 locks in our 10 man, which if this worked could really help keep a large portion of the room less cluttered in the first phase, or less cluttered around players that derp repeatedly on hitting orbs...

You absolutely do NOT want to soak AT ALL during P1 UNLESS you have a COMPLETE immunity such as Cloak of Shadows, Deterrence, etc.  Remember, even if you don't eat the 150k damage, you'll be losing your shield regardless.  The Ancient Miasma does 40k per second on top of all the damage you'd be eating over time.  Your healers would have to blow their load to top you back off.  What happens if while you were doing this you got knocked up in the air and then took fall damage while the DB bleed is happening on you? 

 

TL;DR: no, don't do it.  Take Soul Link with GoSac for a HUGE health pool which is actually beneficial here because your shield's maximum is your max HP giving you way higher survivability (I've eaten a Breath and taken 75k damage).

[Soulzar 42]

You absolutely do NOT want to soak AT ALL during P1 UNLESS you have a COMPLETE immunity such as Cloak of Shadows, Deterrence, etc.  Remember, even if you don't eat the 150k damage, you'll be losing your shield regardless.  The Ancient Miasma does 40k per second on top of all the damage you'd be eating over time.  Your healers would have to blow their load to top you back off.  What happens if while you were doing this you got knocked up in the air and then took fall damage while the DB bleed is happening on you? 

 

TL;DR: no, don't do it.  Take Soul Link with GoSac for a HUGE health pool which is actually beneficial here because your shield's maximum is your max HP giving you way higher survivability (I've eaten a Breath and taken 75k damage).

 

Ok so 100% immunities do work to prevent the 150k dmg per.  I understand its not an ideal solution dealing with the after effects of the delayed dmg, just thinking ahead to possible options.

 

The above was theorized with the assumption that I would not randomly go running around to soak up orbs, but time between events that can cause damage to raid members.  I assume Seismic Slam has a timer?  We can port to avoid fall dmg.

 

So 40k every 2s for Miasma would equate to 10k/s ticks after DB wears off.  Each Orb soaked would add 9,375 dmg to that.  Even if you soaked 5 orbs, your barely breaking 55k/s healing required for 8 seconds... I don't feel that would force healers to blow their loads.  That's roughly the same amount of dmg taken soaking Imploding Energy.  We can soak the first 2-3 ticks with Shadow Ward.

 

I think we have enough players in our raid with 100% that we would not have to worry about testing this, if we find it needed at all to soak any during this portion of the fight, was just curious if others had tried and what their results were.

[Typecast 16]

What happens if while you were doing this you got knocked up in the air and then took fall damage while the DB bleed is happening on you?

But you shouldn't be taking fall damage with teleport.

[Zagam 1,982]

Well, more often than not, wherever I put my teleport, Malkorok puts a ball of light right where it is.  So I use it to get out of stacking during P2 to get back and absorb balls before Ancient Miasma is activated again.  I'm not going to keep spending globals to drop my teleport.

[Nyanchan 2]

Well, more often than not, wherever I put my teleport, Malkorok puts a ball of light right where it is.  So I use it to get out of stacking during P2 to get back and absorb balls before Ancient Miasma is activated again.  I'm not going to keep spending globals to drop my teleport.

 

He only puts balls over you, you can even stack them for easier clearing later. Put your teleport, move a bit away and everytime a ball appears just move a bit away. I used to trap myself till i notice how easy is to keep entire areas clear.

[Nytemare 2]

for the fights that say any T5 which one should be default I am 543 so should I just take GoSac on them or use the imp?:

 

So for DSI use it on Cd unless excute will be here before 2 min is up or if Gen is about to go zerker stance - I still use it on open and right now just pop it ever 2min  or 1min if I taking Darkness - trying to get my dps up - our frost mage blows me out of the water in dps and I usually between 160-185K and would like to be even higher - I know I doing everything right, just think I not using DSi correctly - by the way I been doing on destro on all fights - we just 1 shotted boss 1-5 this week so we working on Iron and Shamans

 

 

We wiped and wiped on Shaman fight- we can get them to 40-45% hp than we just die and crap, got any tips - we put all range on slimes and they run and wait for the slims to come back to us and that works out good until 45% and so mark. 

Edited October 17, 2013 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,982]

He only puts balls over you, you can even stack them for easier clearing later. Put your teleport, move a bit away and everytime a ball appears just move a bit away. I used to trap myself till i notice how easy is to keep entire areas clear.

This isn't true at all.  I never stand in my teleport, and at some point during the fight, he puts a ball there.  Not sure if the game tracks all recent placements, but the very first thing I do before fight even starts is put down my Teleport.  I NEVER stand in it, yet a ball always seems to form there.  I've had one attempt where it did not and I didn't get thrown up in the air.

[Zagam 1,982]

for the fights that say any T5 which one should be default I am 543 so should I just take GoSac on them or use the imp?:

 

So for DSI use it on Cd unless excute will be here before 2 min is up or if Gen is about to go zerker stance - I still use it on open and right now just pop it ever 2min  or 1min if I taking Darkness - trying to get my dps up - our frost mage blows me out of the water in dps and I usually between 160-185K and would like to be even higher - I know I doing everything right, just think I not using DSi correctly - by the way I been doing on destro on all fights - we just 1 shotted boss 1-5 this week so we working on Iron and Shamans

 

 

We wiped and wiped on Shaman fight- we can get them to 40-45% hp than we just die and crap, got any tips - we put all range on slimes and they run and wait for the slims to come back to us and that works out good until 45% and so mark. 

DS:I proper use isn't going to explode your DPS.  If you're still doing 160-185k at 543 item level, it might be time to look at some logs because there is something else going on.  For you, unless you have KTT, the choice between T5 talents is irrelevant. 

 

For Dark Shamans, there is no need to put all range on.  I don't know your comp, but I know you can solo them.  When Foul Stream pops out, put Rain of Fire up, flip on Fire and Brimstone, and open with a Conflagrate to snare them.  Then Incinerate spam your heart out until they're all gone.  Everyone else should stay on the boss.  If you're wiping at 45%, my guess is your healers don't prepare or coordinate for Falling Ash.  Falling Ash + random Tornado damage ticks can spell doom for anyone.  I'll bet you 50k gold that if you posted a log, I could find TONS of avoidable damage hitting your raid. 

[Rakupenda 15]

This isn't true at all.  I never stand in my teleport, and at some point during the fight, he puts a ball there.  Not sure if the game tracks all recent placements, but the very first thing I do before fight even starts is put down my Teleport.  I NEVER stand in it, yet a ball always seems to form there.  I've had one attempt where it did not and I didn't get thrown up in the air.

I think you solved your issue with your last statement. They probably spawn when you teleport after getting thrown up into the air. As he said, don't stand on it and move off of it as soon as you have sure-footing again. I've never had this issue as long as I stood a few yards away from it.

[Zagam 1,982]

It's very clearly RNG...I've had the poor end of it, as always, similar to trinket drops.  I'm not surprised.  I deal with it.  2 weeks ago, #1 parse.  Last week, #1 parse reclaimed.  This week, 349k and only back to #13.  It's that damn PBI not dropping for me.

[Omaric 246]

It's very clearly RNG...I've had the poor end of it, as always, similar to trinket drops.  I'm not surprised.  I deal with it.  2 weeks ago, #1 parse.  Last week, #1 parse reclaimed.  This week, 349k and only back to #13.  It's that damn PBI not dropping for me.

 

I can't hear you over how awesome KTT and PBI are working for me.  Please don't ban.

[Zagam 1,982]

Heroic KTT gave me 32% uptime on Toxic Power.  5.8% damage from Multistrike.  I am pleased.  However, nothing is more infuriating than starting to cast Chaos Bolt for a 10 stack of Black Blood mega nuclear strike only to have to move from something.  Damn is that frustrating.  I accidentally pressed my push-to-talk button during one of those incidents so now I'm referred to as the raging Warlock.  I raged a bit.  Well, a lot.  Nothing worse than having to move and give up 1,000,000+ damage.

[Omaric 246]

Ewwwwwww. 

 

Edit:  Also, 32% uptime on which boss?  Or overall?  Because I've been hovering around 13-16% so far.  WTB 32%.

[Brown 14]

Heroic KTT gave me 32% uptime on Toxic Power.  5.8% damage from Multistrike.  I am pleased.  However, nothing is more infuriating than starting to cast Chaos Bolt for a 10 stack of Black Blood mega nuclear strike only to have to move from something.  Damn is that frustrating.  I accidentally pressed my push-to-talk button during one of those incidents so now I'm referred to as the raging Warlock.  I raged a bit.  Well, a lot.  Nothing worse than having to move and give up 1,000,000+ damage.

Accident...that's what I call it but I think my guild knew I raged a lot shortly after I joined.

 

EDIT: I mostly rage at one of our raiders (ele sham) who got bumped up to the big leagues who rolled heroic PBI. And the spriest that rolled it. And the BotH I still use. 

Edited October 17, 2013 by Brown

[Zagam 1,982]

Ewwwwwww. 

 

Edit:  Also, 32% uptime on which boss?  Or overall?  Because I've been hovering around 13-16% so far.  WTB 32%.

Going to have to look up my logs to see it...pretty sure that was my uptime on Malkorok.  I can't look them up at work (fuckin' IT blocking WoL but not some other scummy shit).  US-Cho'gall, Devierum.  Also to note, as always, Destructive Influence proc'd 2 times in 6 minutes, and I didn't even get a full proc on one cuz it happened at the very end.  Unreal how bad that set bonus is.

[Omaric 246]

Yeah wow your KTT uptime is fucking retarded.  Lowest I saw was 16% on a 4:45 minute fight.  Otherwise you average around 25% it seems.  That's disgusting.

 

12 procs on your 7:44 H Dark Shaman kill.  None of them overlapped, but a few were back to back.  Also, WTB your 4-piece.  PBI not for sale though.

[Zagam 1,982]

It's got a 0.92 RPPM, so you'd expect 16% (1 per minute, 10 second duration).  I think the 0.92 RPPM is for 553 ilvl, so my RPPM is around 1.05, so minimum should be 20%.  I know I got good RNG on Toxic Totem, but piss poor RNG elsewhere.  Incinerate is higher than CB damage on that fight because of all the bloody movement required.  I still beat our 2nd place DPS by 75k.  Not sure I can give all the credit to KTT's procs. 

 

On my Dark Shamans kill, I was #10, but I've slid to #17.  I just got some really good synergy with my trinkets....pretty sure BB overlapped with a ton of my KTT procs. 

 

When/if I get PBI, I'm tearing down the roof. 

[Rakupenda 15]

 Also to note, as always, Destructive Influence proc'd 2 times in 6 minutes, and I didn't even get a full proc on one cuz it happened at the very end.  Unreal how bad that set bonus is.

It is pretty bad... Not only do you need a conflag crit (Optimistically ~1/2 chance on average with various int/crit procs), but the crits only offer a 20% (1/5) chance to proc the 2p, so 1/10 Conflagrates procs the bonus. What's CD on conflagrate, 15 seconds? On a 15 second CD...that's 2 1/2 minutes per proc single target. Multi target fights it's better, I see it proccing on Siegecrafter a lot (mainly because conflag is hitting 5-10 targets).  And it's 10% crit that only affects Immolate/Incinerate...Moar ember generation.

 

It should be like 10% per Conflag cast that way it will proc the same amount on multi target fights.