T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Zagam 1,982]

It's also why I NEED BINDINGS FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY.

[Nytemare 2]

Just tried the 3 tank try at the end, still can't beat shaman - we had our pally healer go tank - if I didn't need KTT trinket I would so come in on  my tank who can blow our healer turn tank out of the water in skill

 

maybe if I go demon I can tank long enough for tank stacks to fall off? only got to live for 30 sec could Glyph of Demon Hunting make me able to take Harm shaman for 30 secs?

Edited October 19, 2013 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,982]

Just tried the 3 tank try at the end, still can't beat shaman - we had our pally healer go tank - if I didn't need KTT trinket I would so come in on  my tank who can blow our healer turn tank out of the water in skill

Your guild's success should ALWAYS come before the needs of you personally in terms of an item.  Just sayin...

[Nytemare 2]

Your guild's success should ALWAYS come before the needs of you personally in terms of an item.  Just sayin...

 

well my tank is just an alt and not even in the guild, belongs to another guild so yeah - it was a suggestion for them. I feel we should down this boss ages ago, and not be stuck on them

 

Didn't answer the question can I go Demo tank and live long enough for the other tanks stacks to fall?

Edited October 20, 2013 by Nytemare

[Lockybalboa 618]

 

Didn't answer the question can I go Demo tank and live long enough for the other tanks stacks to fall?

 

LFR, sure. Flex, maybe. Normal, if you have mad gear and good healers. Heroic, lolololololololololololololol...no.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Maybe the 3-tank thing is something you do in heroic. I don't know since I'm not there yet. But, I can say that in normal there's no reason to need three tanks when two works just fine. People use the third tank to keep the bosses split apart, yet we do that with two tanks and have no problems pew pewing extra hard.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Maybe the 3-tank thing is something you do in heroic. I don't know since I'm not there yet. But, I can say that in normal there's no reason to need three tanks when two works just fine. People use the third tank to keep the bosses split apart, yet we do that with two tanks and have no problems pew pewing extra hard.

 

 

Three tank is *almost* mandatory for heroic, even in 10 man. There is a point where you can out gear it and two tank burn but it's a really, really high DPS/HPS cap.

[Ilion 8]

well my tank is just an alt and not even in the guild, belongs to another guild so yeah - it was a suggestion for them. I feel we should down this boss ages ago, and not be stuck on them

 

Didn't answer the question can I go Demo tank and live long enough for the other tanks stacks to fall?

 

Nope, and you shouldn't. Everyone has to do their part, if they're failing they must fix it or be replaced, it's not a dps job to do a healer or a tank job, you can (and you should) support them, but NEVER ever do their jobs.

[Nyanchan 2]

So, we had a couple of attempts on thok, at first i thought affli would rule without a doubt but i'm kinda leaning towards destro now.

 

The havoc glyph works wonders on the jailer and the bats and the self healing helps a ton when running away from thok with burning rush. 

 

Then again we have only made it past the bats once, still gotta see.

 

Btw for the interrupts, when they get too fast you can spam incinerate till u get interrupted then cast a chaos bolt, they are on different schools so it seems to match the required time to cast it safely. (for some reason my timers are way off from the interrupts)

 

And also glyphing for unending resolve short cd helps when your stuff procs so that you can cast freely (or when the bats come and u gotta burn them asap).

[Vile 9]

I can run Affli on Thok nearly unhindered with a MG stopcasting macro. I don't see Destro working very well there at all, past 10~ stacks you can't fit in a Chaos Bolt at all and you should be going for 20~ stacks depending on your raids DPS. Also trying to fling off empowered Chaos Bolts during kite phase without being outranged is going to be a bitch past the first two fixates.

 

At least that's what I think, if you do try it please post how it goes!

[Kazistrasz 216]

The only way Destro works well on Thok is if you have a lot of paladins both for Devo Aura and personal BoPs.

[Lockybalboa 618]

The only way Destro works well on Thok is if you have a lot of paladins both for Devo Aura and personal BoPs.

 

This.

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah there is no way I'm going to suggest Destro over Affliction on Thok.  Similar to reasons as on Iron Juggernaut.  Too many things to interfere with your primary damage dealing spell.

[Liquidsteel 279]

We had about 20ish pulls on Thok yesterday (granted half of those were with 9 players) but only reached the bats like 3 times as we kept having deaths in p1.

 

When we did reach the bats the damage wasn't quite there on them, thinking of running destro instead just to a) do more damage on bats and b) offer more survivability in p1 where we are having issues.

 

The time between roars is 2.4 seconds so you can definitely squeeze in chaos bolt under backdraft, and weave in incinerates/RoF around it. Initial damage on the boss is lower as destro for sure, but you have more defensive capabilities, will do more damage on the bats (which is what seems really matters here) and will likely do more damage in execute considering that Shadowburn is instant and drain soul ticks are so far apart you'll be lucky to regen a soul shard during roar.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Liquidsteel

[Zagam 1,982]

I understand some of the arguments for Destruction, but I can't see any arguments AGAINST Affliction while there are plenty against Destruction.

 

Drain Soul should be used to finish Thok while he is fixated on people, not during the interrupt spam phase, so the execute argument goes away.

 

Arguing that Destruction has more defensive capabilities is a false claim, because the only thing that Destruction has over Affliction is Ember Tap, which you would not want to be using for a multitude of reasons.  The primary reason is Warlocks already have a high enough HP pool that we won't be the ones needing to be prioritized for heals to stop the Blood Frenzy phase from activating.  Blowing an Ember on Ember Tap is counterproductive in two ways.  Both specs can spec into survival talents just the same.

 

You may be able to consume Backdraft to get off a Chaos Bolt during his interrupt phase, but how can you reliably do that with trinket procs?  It is FAR easier to snapshot DoTs during this type of thing and work with MG and Fel Flame to maximize your damage.  In order to get a Chaos Bolt off, you'd have to consume all 3 of your charges from Conflagrate, and that just leaves your Incinerates slower and more susceptable to interrupts.

 

I'm sure the fight can be done as Destruction, but arguing against Affliction is just silly.

[Zagam 1,982]

The only way Destro works well on Thok is if you have a lot of paladins both for Devo Aura and personal BoPs.

AKA, be in a 25 man.  This is simply not a viable strategy for 10 mans.

[Liquidsteel 279]

To clarify, I'm not saying affliction is bad. Far from it. 

 

My point was to bring up the issue of the bats, as with current ilvl's the boss damage is no longer proving to be an issue. We're pushing him to 60% after first stack phase but our AoE setup isn't the best. We have 2 locks, a Shadow, a fire Mage and a ret.

 

The ret had some issues getting to the bats as if he moved out of his marker we could force blood frenzy too early. No ele and having a hunter afk means our aoe was lacking.

 

Destro seems (I will test it tonight) like it will bring higher bat damage, and you can use havoc glyph to cleave 6 shadowburns onto the boss. I'm not arguing against affliction, rather trying to list a few reasons why destro could work.

 

If we had decent aoe classes then I'd stick to affliction for higher boss damage, but destro looks like it could fill the gap on bat damage which we were lacking yday.

[Zagam 1,982]

Ah, yeah, Destro tends to shine anytime something needs to die fast.  This type of functionality would always depend on raid comp which it seems you are suffering from. 

[Lockybalboa 618]

My point was to bring up the issue of the bats, as with current ilvl's the boss damage is no longer proving to be an issue. We're pushing him to 60% after first stack phase but our AoE setup isn't the best. We have 2 locks, a Shadow, a fire Mage and a ret.

 

 

Soul Swap spam. No fear of the interrupt and does mad DPS.

[uconnfan34 4]

Hey guys, for normal klaxxi and destro, should I keep immolate on all targets (bosses) or would that be considered padding? I know I should keep ROF up all the time since it will most likely be hitting more then 2 targets, but just wondering if its optimal to keep immolate up on all of the bosses for increased ember regen. 

Edited October 21, 2013 by uconnfan34

[Omaric 246]

Hey guys, for normal klaxxi and destro, should I keep immolate on all targets (bosses) or would that be considered padding? I know I should keep ROF up all the time since it will most likely be hitting more then 2 targets, but just wondering if its optimal to keep immolate up on all of the bosses for increased ember regen. 

 

I do.  If they're close enough pop off a FnB Immolate instead to save yourself a couple GCD's.

[Zagam 1,982]

RoF and Immo on everything all the time.  It's not padding.  It's more Chaos Bolts by higher Ember generation.

[Rakupenda 15]

Hey guys. For normal klaxi and destro, should I keep immolate on all targets (bosses) or would that be considered padding? I know I should keep ROF up all the time since it will most likely be hitting more then 2 targets but just wondering if I should keep immolate up on all of the bosses for increased ember regen. 

I would say the Immolate would be less padding than RoF since RoF doesn't generate embers anymore. RoFing Paragons (ignoring the padding) is like RoFing a single target. RoFing is only important for effective damage on multiple targets.

 

If you are going to Immolate the other targets, you will want to so with crit or haste buffs for ember generation only (since immolate only generates ember bits on crits, and more haste means more ticks). And even that may not be worth it. Anything else is definitely padding (recasting with Int procs for massive damage!). Consider that ember generator (padded damage) cast every <Immolate duration divided by two> seconds to keep Immolate up on two additional targets versus casting two incinerates on your main target. Sure you'll generate a few extra ember bits (Base # ticks / 3 assuming 33% crit per target), but does that make up for the incinerate damage (70-200k ea) and emberbits (2-4) lost on your main target? No definite answers as it will be based on personal experience...but something to think about.

 

On heroic there are periods where you actually want to bring two bosses down to 50% so that the off-target gets encased in amber instead of your main target. Then you would want to Immolate both main targets at all times.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Rakupenda

[Zagam 1,982]

I would say the Immolate would be less padding than RoF since it doesn't generate embers anymore. RoFing Paragons (ignoring the padding) is like RoFing a single target. RoFing is only important for effective damage on multiple targets.

This is wrong.  Immolate generates Emberbits on tick crits.  RoF hitting multiple targets = higher Ember generation = more uses of Chaos Bolt = higher single target DPS.  Anytime Immolate will tick 2-3 times on ANYTHING, it should be cast.  Rain of Fire should ALWAYS be cast if it will hit 2 or more targets for the entire duration, regardless of whether or not the residual damage is permanent.  The Ember generation justifies it.

[Rakupenda 15]

I do.  If they're close enough pop off a FnB Immolate instead to save yourself a couple GCD's.

A full ember to save one cast? Ick, I'd rather use it for Chaos Bolt and apply the second Immolate manually.