T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Omaric 246]

Something happened about 2/3 of the way through the fight for me to spike up to 800k without Bloodlust and hold it for about 20 seconds.  My guess is Dark Soul with PBI proc and some other mash of things.  This was the first time I've played Demo in 6 weeks, so I've got some room to improve.  I did accidentally clip my initial mega Doom about 2 seconds too early.  And I think he got out of range on me somewhere which hurt my Doom uptime.  I didn't use Soul Fire in Metamorphosis enough, Toxic Power proc had horrible uptime, and I may have overused Fel Flame instead of trying to weave in Soul Fires.  Lots to work on for me, but 377k in a single target fight is pretty sick.

 

Something certainly did happen.  It was the only time you had any meaningful overlap with Fiery Wrath.  Fiery Wrath proc'd back to back, but on the 2nd proc you also had DS, PBI, Lightweave, Potion AND KTT up.  Not *all* of those overlapped, and some of it wasn't for very long, but you basically had almost every buff you could (besides Berserking) happening right around the same time.

 

Also, I'm sure you're still getting used to Paragons as Demonology, but you should try it as Destruction again with the method I outlined earlier.  I was able to keep up with your 10 ilvls on a fight that went on for 2 minutes longer.  That sounds kind of douche baggish, but I think you know what I mean, haha.  At what capacity did you feel you were at with Demonology that attempt?

[Zagam 1,982]

Baller.  I'm almost capped on gear, as well.  Only one ring that isn't this tier.  Just amazing seeing how high DPS scales.  Simcraft models perfect single target DPS at 412k...almost there!

[Zagam 1,982]

Also, I'm sure you're still getting used to Paragons as Demonology, but you should try it as Destruction again with the method I outlined earlier.  I was able to keep up with your 10 ilvls on a fight that went on for 2 minutes longer.  That sounds kind of douche baggish, but I think you know what I mean, haha.  At what capacity did you feel you were at with Demonology that attempt?

Fight lasts longer = more opportunities for Shadowburn.  Notice on my parse, Soul Fire is the highest source of damage.  It's because I go into 9 execute phases.  Remember, I don't like Destruction.  It's rather simplistic to me and has nothing interesting aside from 3M Chaos Bolts.  It's a decent spec, and I love PvP with it, but Demonology is and forever will be where my heart lies.  I'm likely going to end up going like this...

 

Immers - Destro

Protectors - Demo

Norushen - Destro

Sha - Destro

Galakras - Destro

IJ - Demo

Shamans - Demo

Nazgrim - Destro

Malkorok - Demo

Spoils - Destro

Thok - Demo

Siege - Destro

Paragons - Demo

Garrosh - Destro

 

Just look at my Paragons log this week.  My logs this week were crazy.  I beat some old parses by over 70k DPS from the week before.  I think my highest Thok parse was 303k and now I did 377k as Demo (albeit with PBI).  I also CRUSHED Garrosh this week...I usually average 280-300, but this week I was around 380k (I think, check the log I linked - I only sat on Siegecrafter).

[Omaric 246]

Yeah, I guess I need to stop comparing 25M parses to 10M parses.  It's just not going to make sense.  I'll need to find someone else to compare myself to, haha.

[Twona 1]

Zagam, do you have any logs you can post of H Thok progression? I'd like to compare your demo logs with my aff logs.

[Rakupenda 15]

Paragons 25 Heroic: As Affliction

Dark Bargain & Unending Resolve (+ Twilight Ward) can easily solo soak aim, even through amber puddles/rapid fire if you weren't positioned properly in advance.

 

Demonic Circles can be placed while being mesmerized (Kunchongs), so either place them in the center before mesmerizes go out, or if you forget you can place it as you're walking towards your death. "Free" life grip.

 

Glyphed CoEx on bloods; Shadowfury for stun.

 

KJC a must with the incredible amount of movement. During purple mist keyboard turn in a circle close enough to the boss so you can lock in MGs and refresh instant dots (Reapply UA before this goes out because you will not be able to stop and reapply it as you are forced to run forward).

 

Unbound Will over Burning Rush (if you aren't Human) - Unbound Will can break whirling of Ka'roz (the first boss to become active after one dies). 20% hp is better than 50% from a single tick of whirling.

 

Make sure to Soul Swap your dots from the target about to die and reapply them to the next target/s to maintain your 10 stack of Agony. When they "die" they do not give shards, so when they drop below 5% copy your dots and then finish it. I admit I was terrible at this after the first couple bosses - usually dodging something as the boss is about to die (spamming MG) so I was focusing on mechanics rather than dps.

 

I ran with Dark Regeneration for a third defensive cooldown for Iyuukuk's fire lines and saved all my defensives for them (not green puddles). Every fire line that was on me I popped Fel Imps Cauterize and a CD (Unending Resolve, Dark Regen + Healthstone if healing is lacking, or lastly Dark Bargain + Twilight Ward and only after I dipped below half so they could heal me up before taking the remaining damage).

 

Make sure you CoE (Ka'roz expecially because he's away for long periods hurling amber or whirling) your rogues will be on the main target (Kunchong, the second boss for amber, etc) applying their poison, meanwhile your dots are ticking on an un-debuffed boss. Or they may have gotten transformed into a scorpion and can't apply their debuff. Keep an eye on it like any other fight.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Rakupenda

[Omaric 246]

Zagam, do you have any logs you can post of H Thok progression? I'd like to compare your demo logs with my aff logs.

 

He posted the link on the last page.  Just click on a different attempt.

[Skyrge 9]

   As I'm now comfortable with all the fights and don't need my KJC crutch as much anymore I'm using AD more. I'm just wondering what's the best use of the second DS for Destro and Affliction. Destro I've just been using it right after my opener to build embers for the second round of procs, but the real quandry is on affliction. When DS runs out after the opener affdots has agony showing in the mid 30s with a good bit of duration left. Is it worth casting DS again without procs to rebuff UA and Corr? My gut tells me just wait for the next proc, confirm or re-educate?

   Now that I think about it, same question for Demo. I'm the last caster in our 10 to get PBoI, so as long as it doesn't drop H-WF I shouldn't have to roll . As soon as that bad boy replaces Breath I'm coming home to Demo! I would assume you just hold the second use after starving through the opener until you have fury and a proc or mechanic to work with.

   OK while I'm here, last thing I swear! How do we best handle the opener on garrosh? Dumping both big CBs into him left me without embers for the adds or weapon, so last night I started giving him the first CB with both trink procs up, turn on F&B, Conflag, RoF and Incin until I had at least 2 embers then Immo (if I hit Immo first I seem to lose that first ember and have to turn F&B on again), do some single target to weapon, Havoc SBurns onto Garrosh as adds get low, then finish off weapon. Our strats working so I guess I'm just asking to optimize my own output.

 

P.S. I'm still here melting face thanks to you guys. My disease(Parkinson's for those who don't know. Where's my time-travelling Delorean btw?!) keeps my dps down from where it should be and I've told my group if it get's much worse I might have to bow out, but for now the info I get from you guys keeps me in the game. I really appreciate it.

[Omaric 246]

Glad to hear you're doing well Skyrge!

 

Hokay! 

 

Timing AD:

 

Destruction - Use it with another major proc.  Not PBI, as it generally always procs with your normal DS timer.

 

Affliction - Same thing.

 

Demonology - Same thing.

 

It may change on a fight to fight basis.  For example, on General Nazgrim I would *definitely* use it when he goes into berserker stance.

 

Garrosh opener:

 

I changed it up a bit recently.  I wait until adds are in place before I start casting as I don't want all of my procs going for just Garrosh.  Once adds are in place I pop all of my CD's and launch a FaB Immolate followed by RoF.  This ensures that you'll have tons of Embers with which to CB Garrosh or supplement your raid DPS on adds using FaB Incinerate.  Try your best to keep Immolate/RoF down.  Running out of Embers is almost impossible with adds up.

 

Keep in mind that after you do that first FaB Immolate you'll have no Embers, so I use that time to cast an Incinerate or two while RoF is running.  After that you're clear for take off.

[Rakupenda 15]

   As I'm now comfortable with all the fights and don't need my KJC crutch as much anymore I'm using AD more. I'm just wondering what's the best use of the second DS for Destro and Affliction. Destro I've just been using it right after my opener to build embers for the second round of procs, but the real quandry is on affliction. When DS runs out after the opener affdots has agony showing in the mid 30s with a good bit of duration left. Is it worth casting DS again without procs to rebuff UA and Corr? My gut tells me just wait for the next proc, confirm or re-educate?

   Now that I think about it, same question for Demo. I'm the last caster in our 10 to get PBoI, so as long as it doesn't drop H-WF I shouldn't have to roll . As soon as that bad boy replaces Breath I'm coming home to Demo! I would assume you just hold the second use after starving through the opener until you have fury and a proc or mechanic to work with.

   OK while I'm here, last thing I swear! How do we best handle the opener on garrosh? Dumping both big CBs into him left me without embers for the adds or weapon, so last night I started giving him the first CB with both trink procs up, turn on F&B, Conflag, RoF and Incin until I had at least 2 embers then Immo (if I hit Immo first I seem to lose that first ember and have to turn F&B on again), do some single target to weapon, Havoc SBurns onto Garrosh as adds get low, then finish off weapon. Our strats working so I guess I'm just asking to optimize my own output.

 

P.S. I'm still here melting face thanks to you guys. My disease(Parkinson's for those who don't know. Where's my time-travelling Delorean btw?!) keeps my dps down from where it should be and I've told my group if it get's much worse I might have to bow out, but for now the info I get from you guys keeps me in the game. I really appreciate it.

The cool thing about the second Dark Soul is that you are free to wait to use it with trinket procs. If you have PBI then you will definitely want to use the Dark Soul every 2 minutes in line with that and save the last one for execute phase. If you don't have PBI (like me...) then use the Dark Souls whenever you have a trinket proc (preferrably two).

 

If affdots is saying your dot is 30, a 30% haste proc will not bring that in line sufficiently enough to refresh your dot even if it is in Everlasting Affliction range. Let it almost fall off before refreshing so you get those empowered ticks and save the DS for another good opportunity.

 

Garrosh, save one ember (or make sure you can generate one if you use the first one on a Chaos Bolt with procs before the adds spawn) to FoB immolate the adds, keep RoF up and you will be swimming in embers enough to spam Chaos Bolt/Shadoburn cleave onto the boss. I'm still tweaking my opener (and will have to do so again when I finally bribe the RNG gods enough to get PBI). Trinkets are falling off just as the adds are stacking up :(

Edited October 25, 2013 by Rakupenda

[Omaric 246]

I don't think we could have randomly said basically the same things any better sir.  Cheers.

 

Except your use of the Fire and Brimstone acronym.  Come to the dark side, where acronyms are evil and correct!

[Skyrge 9]

Thanks guys. Makes sense Omaric, I will try to wait til they're stacked. Do I have the discipline to wait while our Enh Shamm spikes up to 750k? Tune in next week to find out !

[Omaric 246]

Haha, yeah it's tough to hold out.  I used to stand up in range of Garrosh and continue casting while running back to the ranged stack point.  Don't worry though, with full buffs you've easily got the potential to wipe the floor with those pesky windfurying bastards.  :D

[Zagam 1,982]

Zagam, do you have any logs you can post of H Thok progression? I'd like to compare your demo logs with my aff logs.

Yeah go to the logs I just recently linked.  Go to wipes and there should be plenty to pick from.  On some of the lower openers, namely two of them, notice that PBI played the dick card and didn't proc til after DS wore off.  I also got better as the night went on learning how to weave in my bonus Dark Soul and when to pop in and out of Meta to squeeze out more DPS. 

 

Paragons 25 Heroic: As Affliction

Dark Bargain & Unending Resolve (+ Twilight Ward) can easily solo soak aim, even through amber puddles/rapid fire if you weren't positioned properly in advance.

 

Demonic Circles can be placed while being mesmerized (Kunchongs), so either place them in the center before mesmerizes go out, or if you forget you can place it as you're walking towards your death. "Free" life grip.

 

Glyphed CoEx on bloods; Shadowfury for stun.

 

KJC a must with the incredible amount of movement. During purple mist keyboard turn in a circle close enough to the boss so you can lock in MGs and refresh instant dots (Reapply UA before this goes out because you will not be able to stop and reapply it as you are forced to run forward).

 

Unbound Will over Burning Rush (if you aren't Human) - Unbound Will can break whirling of Ka'roz (the first boss to become active after one dies). 20% hp is better than 50% from a single tick of whirling.

 

Make sure to Soul Swap your dots from the target about to die and reapply them to the next target/s to maintain your 10 stack of Agony. When they "die" they do not give shards, so when they drop below 5% copy your dots and then finish it. I admit I was terrible at this after the first couple bosses - usually dodging something as the boss is about to die (spamming MG) so I was focusing on mechanics rather than dps.

 

I ran with Dark Regeneration for a third defensive cooldown for Iyuukuk's fire lines and saved all my defensives for them (not green puddles). Every fire line that was on me I popped Fel Imps Cauterize and a CD (Unending Resolve, Dark Regen + Healthstone if healing is lacking, or lastly Dark Bargain + Twilight Ward and only after I dipped below half so they could heal me up before taking the remaining damage).

 

Make sure you CoE (Ka'roz expecially because he's away for long periods hurling amber or whirling) your rogues will be on the main target (Kunchong, the second boss for amber, etc) applying their poison, meanwhile your dots are ticking on an un-debuffed boss. Or they may have gotten transformed into a scorpion and can't apply their debuff. Keep an eye on it like any other fight.

This fight sounds delightful.  I personally can't wait for Siegecrafter as soon as we get Thok hopefully Tuesday/Wednesday next week.  Sad because I'll only have two hours of raiding the following week because of Blizzcon.  Progression halted.

[Zagam 1,982]

I'm just wondering what's the best use of the second DS for Destro and Affliction. Destro I've just been using it right after my opener to build embers for the second round of procs, but the real quandry is on affliction. When DS runs out after the opener affdots has agony showing in the mid 30s with a good bit of duration left. Is it worth casting DS again without procs to rebuff UA and Corr? My gut tells me just wait for the next proc, confirm or re-educate?

   Now that I think about it, same question for Demo. I'm the last caster in our 10 to get PBoI, so as long as it doesn't drop H-WF I shouldn't have to roll . As soon as that bad boy replaces Breath I'm coming home to Demo! I would assume you just hold the second use after starving through the opener until you have fury and a proc or mechanic to work with.

   OK while I'm here, last thing I swear! How do we best handle the opener on garrosh? Dumping both big CBs into him left me without embers for the adds or weapon, so last night I started giving him the first CB with both trink procs up, turn on F&B, Conflag, RoF and Incin until I had at least 2 embers then Immo (if I hit Immo first I seem to lose that first ember and have to turn F&B on again), do some single target to weapon, Havoc SBurns onto Garrosh as adds get low, then finish off weapon. Our strats working so I guess I'm just asking to optimize my own output.

Personally, I would bank on the bonus DS for Affliction by either guaranteeing I'd have it for execute or using it during another period of high damage potential.  I was reacting last night to using my bonus DS when both trinkets popped.  I also took the liberty of using my 2nd potion when 'the stars alligned.'  As all specs, I'd save it for either execute phase since all Warlocks jump up during execute, or when the opportunity presents itself. 

 

For Garrosh, I opened last night to the tune of 900k while soloing the weapon and getting in some AoE.  I did the same as you delivering two monster CBs in the first 10 seconds of the fight.  I kept Incinerate spamming until I was back to one charge, but instead of opening with FnB Immolate, I used FnB Conflag.  When you have only 1 Burning Ember, don't open with Immolate because it doesn't generate Emberbits on hit.  Conflag and Incinerate do.  ONLY use FnB Immolate if you have more than 2 Burning Embers.  This should get you back on track to not drop out of FnB.

 

Demo's opener is VERY different from before, but it follows the same pattern...get as much into your Doom as possible, squeeze out some DPS, then start building for your next burn phase.  Pre-casting Soul Fire is very advantageous to this strat especially if the 2pc procs.  I'm going to keep working on Demo this week doing an entire Flex as Demo, even when Destro seems more ideal just so I can really get back into the flow of it all.  I'll, as always, report back.

[Rakupenda 15]

I don't think we could have randomly said basically the same things any better sir.  Cheers.

 

Except your use of the Fire and Brimstone acronym.  Come to the dark side, where acronyms are evil and correct!

Too used to acronyms with o's in the middle *grumble grumble*

 

This fight sounds delightful.  I personally can't wait for Siegecrafter as soon as we get Thok hopefully Tuesday/Wednesday next week.  Sad because I'll only have two hours of raiding the following week because of Blizzcon.  Progression halted.

I liked Siegecrafter more than Paragons, personally. Paragons got more fun once your raid got used to dodging whirls and rapid fire. After Iyuukuk and Xaril die the fight is smooth sailing.

 

Too many different mechanics to know and react to that the majority of only last a minute or two, but maybe you like that sort of variety (think your first night on normal mode, and then add a mechanic). I prefer more scripted fights. They usually have more mechanics that last he entire fight, and once you master the first round it's a matter of rinse repeat (tenacity/stamina test). Paragons has three+ per boss (of which range dps only has to deal with 1-2 of them) and it ends up being more diverse mechanics to deal with overall.

[Zagam 1,982]

All I got to say is one thing: Thank the high heavens they didn't randomize the order they come in.

[Rakupenda 15]

All I got to say is one thing: Thank the high heavens they didn't randomize the order they come in.

^ This

 

The interesting thing I realized about the fight is the designer's creative use of the Paragon's powers after they die (at least how Blizzard appears to intended it). Example: You use Ka'roz's amber bomb to break the 50% encased in Amber Regen mechanic of Korven. You use Korven's amber to encase the mesmerized.

[Skyrge 9]

 

 

For Garrosh, I opened last night to the tune of 900k while soloing the weapon and getting in some AoE.  I did the same as you delivering two monster CBs in the first 10 seconds of the fight.  I kept Incinerate spamming until I was back to one charge, but instead of opening with FnB Immolate, I used FnB Conflag.  When you have only 1 Burning Ember, don't open with Immolate because it doesn't generate Emberbits on hit.  Conflag and Incinerate do.  ONLY use FnB Immolate if you have more than 2 Burning Embers.  This should get you back on track to not drop out of FnB.

 

 

 

Thanks Zagam, that's how I've been handling my F&B, always good to have confirmation when you're on the right track. I duddits! (Wow will anyone get that reference?) Only thing worse than running out of embers during an aoe nukefest is having to move midcast on a 30megaton Chaos Bolt.

[Omaric 246]

Thanks Zagam, that's how I've been handling my F&B, always good to have confirmation when you're on the right track. I duddits! (Wow will anyone get that reference?) Only thing worse than running out of embers during an aoe nukefest is having to move midcast on a 30megaton Chaos Bolt.

 

Dreamcatcher is a good read, but no capitalization??  Wtflips!!

 

I prefer getting Immolate out first because it starts buffing my RoF on all the mobs by 50% right away.  Let's be realistic too, it doesn't take long to get Embers rolling in that circumstance.  Within a GCD or two you have the Embers to get deep and dirty into your rotation.  You also aren't getting your Conflag buffed by all your procs.  Immolates are easier to refresh after procs, but you don't get your Conflag charges back.  To each their own though!

[Skyrge 9]

Dreamcatcher is a good read, but no capitalization??  Wtflips!!

 

I prefer getting Immolate out first because it starts buffing my RoF on all the mobs by 50% right away.  Let's be realistic too, it doesn't take long to get Embers rolling in that circumstance.  Within a GCD or two you have the Embers to get deep and dirty into your rotation.  You also aren't getting your Conflag buffed by all your procs.  Immolates are easier to refresh after procs, but you don't get your Conflag charges back.  To each their own though!

   All good points. I HAD it figured out, now I'm back to thinking! I kid, "to each their own" is right. I think you could go either way and not really notice the difference. By the by, I had a tank complain about me Shadowfurying the adds in a flex pug, he said I was syncing up their swing timers? My tanks have had no problems on normal, anyone heard of this?

[Omaric 246]

I've never heard of it as a complaint, and in my 3+ years of tanking never complained about it.  I guess it's a thing if you think about it.  If you're unlucky and have all the aggro you could get hit simultaneously by every mob.  Seems kind of nit picky though, especially seeing how you're straight up halting damage for a period of time, enough to let healers catch up and tanks recharge their CD's.

[Muoric 3]

By the by, I had a tank complain about me Shadowfurying the adds in a flex pug, he said I was syncing up their swing timers? My tanks have had no problems on normal, anyone heard of this?

 

I've heard of it and it can in theory be a problem. Just a case of how many mobs, how hard do they hit (slow + heavy is worse) and how much health does the tank have. Basically with a low health tank and heavy hitting mobs they can one shot the tank after their swings come at the exact same time. Seen that happen in toes (lfr) a few times on the adds before 3rd boss.

[Skyrge 9]

Interesting. I, however, will still be stunning them bitches. Maybe THAT'S why I have 860k health, gives me time to get the B-res off .

[Liquidsteel 279]

I've heard of it and it can in theory be a problem. Just a case of how many mobs, how hard do they hit (slow + heavy is worse) and how much health does the tank have. Basically with a low health tank and heavy hitting mobs they can one shot the tank after their swings come at the exact same time. Seen that happen in toes (lfr) a few times on the adds before 3rd boss.

I first encountered it on Tortos heroic. I'd stun the bats and it would cause them to rape the tanks shield and start healing. Started doing it just before the stomp / when they were low enough to die in the 3 seconds.