T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Strife 6]

Question for people who have done H. Paragons, do you generally have an order or use all of the buffs that come from the dead bodies of the paragons as you progress through the fight?

 

My 10M doesn't use it at all for normal since the fight is pretty easy, but I want to start preparing for Heroic.

 

We're currently 4/14H so have a while still until we get there, so I thought practicing in normal would be good for people if it's much easier in heroics when you actually use the buffs.

[JvChequer 43]

Hello my dears, after around 15~ tries we killed Spoils, pretty easy fight with some overgear dpsing, mainly because we dropped 4 H WF weapons this week at my core.

Now we're at thok and I wanna some tips like u guys help me in Spoils.

We have Holy Pally + Disc Priest + Druid Resto as healers and Dk + Warrior Tanks.

Any tips would be welcome, in te 8~ tries we did it last night our healers is struggling in keep we alive until 25~ stacks, maybe a positioning issue, IDK.

Help me plox or report u <3

[Zagam 1,982]

Soudns like a CD issue.  You have one Devotion Aura (6 sec of casting immunity), two Hands of Protection (16 seconds of casting immunity), and Rallying Cry.  You didn't mentioned the rest of your DPS, but they'll be important.  Bench Mages because they bring nothing.  Positioning should be relatively easy...lay down an AoE heal (Efforflorence) and ranged stand on one side, melee on the other.  You should be split 4/4 with the OT being in melee when not tanking.  You've got a lot of leeway with CDs - you should BoP the Resto Druid for a full Tranq when she is nasty.  BoP your Disc Priest for a Hymn when shit is nasty.  Paladin can bubble and pop CDs when shit is nasty.  When all that is done and shit is still nasty, pop Devo and everyone can heal.  Don't forget personals.  The fight is exactly like normal except you have to stay in the interrupt phase longer.  Your healers will get used to it.  It takes iterations.  Thok is an execution fight.  At this point in the tier, it's NOT a DPS race.  Throw bodies til people quit derping.  Then wipe some more while people screw up kiting.  If everyone gets it, fight isn't difficult at all.

[JvChequer 43]

Soudns like a CD issue.  You have one Devotion Aura (6 sec of casting immunity), two Hands of Protection (16 seconds of casting immunity), and Rallying Cry.  You didn't mentioned the rest of your DPS, but they'll be important.  Bench Mages because they bring nothing.  Positioning should be relatively easy...lay down an AoE heal (Efforflorence) and ranged stand on one side, melee on the other.  You should be split 4/4 with the OT being in melee when not tanking.  You've got a lot of leeway with CDs - you should BoP the Resto Druid for a full Tranq when she is nasty.  BoP your Disc Priest for a Hymn when shit is nasty.  Paladin can bubble and pop CDs when shit is nasty.  When all that is done and shit is still nasty, pop Devo and everyone can heal.  Don't forget personals.  The fight is exactly like normal except you have to stay in the interrupt phase longer.  Your healers will get used to it.  It takes iterations.  Thok is an execution fight.  At this point in the tier, it's NOT a DPS race.  Throw bodies til people quit derping.  Then wipe some more while people screw up kiting.  If everyone gets it, fight isn't difficult at all.

We indeed have some CD's problem.

Our DPS are Hunter, Rogue, mage, DK and Me.

Anti magic zone works on Thok as defensive CD? Don't remember if the scream is physical right now.

[Zagam 1,982]

It is physical.  Rogue has Smoke Bomb, DK and Mage are worthless to your group in terms of survivability.  Most upper tier guilds brought zero Mages to their Thok kills because they're not worth anything.  Hope your healers are of high skill.

[Pattymayo 16]

 

Zagama is about to tear up T16.

[Khaos 5]

 

Zagama is about to tear up T16.

 

lolwut

[Liquidsteel 279]

As you said Chequer, right now people are really starting to overgear the content.

 

Whilst not helping you out directly, and seeing as I'm 25 man I can't speak from experience, but I have heard from many people that a viable strat on 10 man is to only do water and fire cages, and skip the poison/bat cage entirely.

[leech6590 1]

For H 25m Dark Shaman, any tips for the opener? should i fire&brimstone the 4 targets? or just havoc off the adds onto the boss and any tips on getting my dps on the silmes more? having 2 other destro locks sniping my shadowburns or killing the add im targeting before i even get a cast off gets annoying and makes me look bad on the charts :(

[Oldtrout 7]

Opening is about killing the wolves, not getting damage on the boss. Havoc your first chaos bolt from one wolf to the other and havoc should be back up to havoc shadow burns from the lower health wolf onto the other (or if one is dead wait to havoc shadow burns on to boss from remaining wolf).

Because I want to chaos bolt with my first havoc I'll single target cast immolate on all 4 targets.

This is exactly how I do it:

Pre-pot

Incin

DS

conflag x2

RoF

Immo wolves

Havoc 1 wolf

Chaos bolt other wolf x2

Immo bosses

Then carry on with regular rotation of until. Maybe it's not the optimal way to do it, but to me, "wasting" the first backdrafts on chaos bolts seems irrelevant in a 4 target situation, you're getting so many embers from RoF and immo.

The thing to do is make sure you're still getting chaos bolts off during your procs, which is obviously harder to do with 4 targets than with 1.

[Zagam 1,982]

"Looking bad on the charts." 

 

Who the hell gives a shit?  If your raid leader is too incompetent to see Shadowburn as the top damage source and realize it's almost all overkill damage, tell your raid leader to quit being incompetent.  Your role in a raid is to kill things efficiently, not look good on the charts.  Trust me, approaching the fight to parse and approaching the fight to be as contributing as possible are COMPLETELY different. 

 

Fire and Brimstone should always be used at 4 targets or more.  Keep Rain of Fire up.  This will only last about 15-20 seconds, so the majority focus should be on the rest of the fight.  For the Slimes, if they're being handled, what's the big deal?  I did 346k DPS to Immerseus this week without touching the adds.  A Shadow Priest did 550k DPS by doing nothing but killing adds with Mind Sear.  Who was more effective to their raid?  Intelligent raid members and raid leaders understand the importance of WHAT you DPS, not how much you do.

[Omaric 246]

Trick question Zags.  Immerseus is so easy that it doesn't matter what you DPS.  What do I win??? :D

[Soulzar 42]

"Looking bad on the charts." 

 

 I did 346k DPS to Immerseus this week without touching the adds.  A Shadow Priest did 550k DPS by doing nothing but killing adds with Mind Sear.  Who was more effective to their raid?  Intelligent raid members and raid leaders understand the importance of WHAT you DPS, not how much you do.

 

Answer: Neither.  If you were instructed to tunnel boss, adds were obv the responsibility of somebody else and it seems both of you were effective in your roles.

 

But I call shenanigans on "not touching" adds, to effectively tunnel boss as destro you would be passively AoEing for embers and havoc sniping you're nuts off! :P 

 

Joking aside, why exactly do they have you tunneling boss if its not forcing boss to split before adds are spawned?  I know in 10 man at least at this point we don't ever get more than one wave of adds before split.  You guys pushing for speed kills?  just seems... redundant for that fight given your progression.

[Zagam 1,982]

I don't know, first time I raided with this guild.  They dispel the DoTs and we don't even see a Swirl.  I follow directions in a raid to a T.  If I'm told not to touch adds, I don't touch adds.  My ineffective DPS doesn't validate my raid spot.  My execution of mechanics, ability to do the job assigned to me, and lack fo mistakes does.  If you do those three, your DPS will stand out automatically.  I don't need gimmicks to perform well.

 

The adds were not the responsibility of anyone.  We were to zerg the boss and then kill adds after during the time spent between transitions.  Makes seemingly good sense with the down time anyways.  I legit did 100% of my damage to the boss, no add padding, not even with Rain of Fire.  See the above paragraph...my single target damage is fine without those sorts of gimmicks.

[Omaric 246]

Gaining Embers through RoF'ing 20+ adds =/= padding/gimmick.  More CB's on main target is win.  Boy you straight cray cray.... today.... horse say neigh.

[leech6590 1]

 

Thx for the help!

Edited November 27, 2013 by leech6590

[Zagam 1,982]

Gaining Embers through RoF'ing 20+ adds =/= padding/gimmick.  More CB's on main target is win.  Boy you straight cray cray.... today.... horse say neigh.

Nah, I should mention they do this weird thing where we are constantly rotating around the boss clockwise.  No time to plant feet for a Chaos Bolt. 

[Soulzar 42]

Currently working on Siegecrafter ... 2 nights in so far.  Walled due to belt Combo's not getting shit killed, but al in all both belt and platform groups still learning and fine tuning the strat.  Good progress so far.  Yet to have our optimal comp due to holidays, so both nights were more for belt peeps to get time in.

 

We are taking out Missiles and dealing with mines which seems like the less chaotic approach vs dealing with Empowered Missiles .. though def feeling the lack of options with swapping belt comps vs who needs to stay on platform to control mines.

 

Hoping our Rogue, War, and Hunter get mad upgrades this week for belts 

[mediocregatsby 18]

our guild has made some fast progression on 25H siegecrafter, but one interesting suggestion came up yesterday. we run 4 locks (all on boss platform) at the moment and someone suggested we all use MF instead of KJC to blow up mines (our strat is kill missiles, get mines).

 

that means one lock (at a time) loses DPS while kiting laser but we probably negate the empowered mines mechanic almost completely. any raids try this?

[Zagam 1,982]

MF doesn't do shit for mines.  It only empowers Rain of Fire which does garbage DPS.  You'll be wanting to use Fire and Brimstone, which is not affected by MF.  KJC is too critical for a fight that uses a lot of movement.  What we were doing in my 25 is using 3 Destruction Warlocks and me as Demonology (not their choice, was mine).  I was using MF to AoE with Immolation Aura.  I was playing Demo to use Carrion Swarm to knock the bombs into a neat pile to allow the Destro Locks to beast them down.  Think of me as Lebron's teammate who sets him up for the knockout 3.  I was using Carrion Swarm for knockbacks and using HoG/CW for snares on bombs coming in too hot (no pun intended).

 

Using MF as Destro = dumb.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah as Zagam already said, the loss of KJC on this fight will just cripple your dps. You can kind of stand still for the first minute or two if you get lucky but after that it's near constant shuffling.

 

I actually can't think of any scenario where you would want to take MF for destruction to be quite honest, Rain of Fire isn't used so much for damage but for the ember gain. You would lose a lot more dps by not being able to FnB incinerate.

 

I would play Demo on it if I could but I had to play destro for the first 2 kills and was forced into affliction to do the belt the past few times...

 

One thing you can do is Sacrifice your Succubus for the extra knockback. Between hunter trap/boomkin shrooms/conflag/dk grip/mage ring etc etc you have more than enough tools to keep those mines under control. 

[Typecast 16]

Its fights like siegecrafter that makes me wish I was in a 25 man. Hate doing conveyer belts, sometimes I just want to pad.

[Lezzr 0]

currently progressing on klaxxi hc - 25man. wanted to share some thoughts and maybe get some info from anyone that already has beaten that annoying encounter :)

 

i did a couple of pulls (around 30) as afflicition which is quite okish for this fight IMO. but since you need alot of burst for either skeer in the beginning and for the adds that mindcontroll you later i think destro is the spec to go for.

 

you can rain of fire the skorpions for massive amount of embers.

 

on pull i apply immolate on rikal + havoc him -> double conflag on skeer + 1 inci which results in decent amount of embers to get some bolt off on skeer with your trinkets up

 

do you think is a single target dps loss if u havoc + execute the bosses over the fight since you are going to lose the havoc global? other warlocks in my raid say they do it for "procs" but for me it feels like stupid padding.

 

in the phase were you have to burn korven and hisek simultaniously  would you recommend to havoc + chaos bolt them on cd even without trinket procs or would it be better to inci them for more embers? - not sure on that point tbh

 

do you think its worth applying immolate on all active targets? or is this padding aswell ?

 

are there any other things to consider dps or mechanic wise?

 

thx in advance for any answer.

 

regards

[Zagam 1,982]

Always Immolate anything alive.  Always.

 

Using Havoc + Shadowburn for procs is a bullshit excuse to pad meters.  There's no reason to be using Havoc for anything but generating embers since they heal to full.  For this reason, the Glyph of Havoc comes into mind as being noteworthy since you can use it every minute but it gives you 6 charges.  This could be used for rapid ember generation.

[Lockybalboa 618]

do you think is a single target dps loss if u havoc + execute the bosses over the fight since you are going to lose the havoc global? other warlocks in my raid say they do it for "procs" but for me it feels like stupid padding.

 

All damage done to anything other than the kill target or the adds is useless damage. If you are havocing+executing a boss/Korvan then you're doing useful damage to both targets, if you're just doing it boss/boss, then you're not doing useful damage to both targets and you're needlessly padding.

 

Use havoc with Incinerates for mad ember gain.

 

do you think its worth applying immolate on all active targets? or is this padding aswell ?

 

I didn't, I've only killed HM Pargons once though and haven't tried it with DoTing everything. Personally I don't do it on a progression kill in a situation like this because the small DPS loss that results from not having those embers saves me from having to put a lot of brain power in to keeping the dots up allowing me to beast mode mechanics more.

 

If you find yourself with the ability to beastmode and dot them all, then go for it. If not, don't sweat it imo.

 

From what I understand 25m is a lot less personal so you might have a lot easier time getting away with doing more at once, for me in 10man with me having to do two other jobs at the same time it was fairly impossible for a first time progression kill.