T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Zagam 1,982]

Do you mean Glyph of Life Tap?  Glyph of Eternal Resolve is nice, as well, but you elude to Mana cost, so I assume you mean Life Tap.

 

Your tank definitely wasn't pulling fast enough.  Ours wasn't either.  First week jitters.  Should be better this week.

[Rakupenda 15]

I dream of the day that a question about weaving spells between Hand of Gul'dans or how to better use Chaos Bolt gets more discussion and hints than Haste vs Mastery vs Crit.  I almost cry buckets of tears when I check these forums anymore.

Think the reason behind the focus on stats is because stats are something that doesn't require live-performance and tuning? Especially if your the type of person that believes the stat weights from an optimizer... It's easier to adjust your stats at a reforger than it is to break the bad habit of Soulburn:Soul Swap to multidot adds. (I think I finally broke that habit on Garrosh last night btw... Yay.) For me it's much harder than getting used to modifications to your UI.

[Zagam 1,982]

That's exactly what it is.  Stats are easier to adjust.  People get instant gratification with no work.  I'm not giving up my crusade to make people care about what's important!

[EddyG17 2]

Do you mean Glyph of Life Tap?  Glyph of Eternal Resolve is nice, as well, but you elude to Mana cost, so I assume you mean Life Tap.

 

Your tank definitely wasn't pulling fast enough.  Ours wasn't either.  First week jitters.  Should be better this week.

 

I'm terrible, totally forgot about Glyph of Life Tap. That is definitely a better option. It would be interesting to see if there are no weird mechanic interaction between Glyph of Lite Tap and Ancient Miasma.

 

Thanks, for the clarification on Spoils.

[Zagam 1,982]

There wouldn't be.  I used it.  It just puts an 'healing absorption' debuff on you.  The miasma just prevents healing, so healers are constantly spending the fight like you have the Heroic Tortos effect on you.  Not losing HP with Life Tap is big here.

[Vile 9]

And don't forget your lovely Twilight Ward. It doesn't absorb very much but it's on a very low cooldown. I've been trying to use it (I tend to forget) a lot on both Malkorok and Garrosh.

[Zagam 1,982]

Mine is a 160k Absorb, so it's not insignificant.  I'll be sure to put it in for fights with Shadow damage.  Thanks!

[Soulzar 42]

For Garrosh it was effective in phase 1 to use Unglyphed Carrion Swarm to knockback the adds into Iron Star to finish them off.

[Zagam 1,982]

It's likely far more efficient to have a DPS just kill the engineer.

[Muoric 3]

Got to disagree with you there. On 25 man it seemed far better to have 1 iron star to kill the adds. It does insane amounts of damage and I think it's good practice to use it now since I assume it's going to be mandatory on hc.

Plenty of people to do the knocbacks though, so wouldn't unglyph it since glyphed it's a damn nice aoe interrupt on mind controlled people after you can't stun them anymore.

p.s. went affliction for the actual kill myself, but did demo for one evening there.

[Zagam 1,982]

In 10 man, our Hunter easily toasted the engineer.  I might need to make 10 v 25 perspectives as they seem to be quite varying.

[Soulzar 42]

We nuked one, ignored the other.

[Darkie 0]

I feel as if affliction notes, mainly the ones concerning aoe, are far too often refering to using seeds. In my experience, if adds are gonna live for over 40 seconds (which would usually mean that there's no more than 10ish), it's usually far more beneficial to try to multi-dot them. A case point below is one of our garrosh wipes, where you can easily see the delta between multidotting and seeding. Granted, Garrosh is one of the more bias of the two cases (the other one being Galakras), since you can get your fully-buffed dots up on the first set of adds as they come, but I still feel as if it illustrates this nicely.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hla78vbeou3rmkpn/sum/damageDone/?s=7780&e=7954

 

I would say, seeding is almost not really worth it, particularly in a 10m environment, because seeds are amongst one of the worst mechanics of aoe in this game. It's slow to setup, and does fairly low damage. If you needs adds bursted down quickly, there's plenty of other classes that can do that far better (not to mention the other two specs). If there is a case where seeding is worth it, the trash before iron qon comes to mind as a viable seeding scenario. But once more, destro is probably a lot better for that sustained 15+ mob aoe.

[Zagam 1,982]

Heroic Immerseus down!!  No Bindings, though...ON TO PROTECTORS!

[Zagam 1,982]

HEROIC PROTECTORS DOWN AND I GOT MY BIS SHOULDERS!!!

[Twona 1]

Zagam, do you suggest demo or affliction for H Protectors? I was running affliction last night but am seriously considering demo today.

[Zagam 1,982]

I ran Demo.  Demo provides a couple of bonuses outside of the DPS perspective.  Every time Calamity came out, I popped into Meta.  It's a physical attack and Metamorphosis mitigates that damage.  It also lessens the pain from Garrote.  I took the least amount of damage from everyone in the raid purely based off of taking less Calamity and less Garrote damage. 

 

Dooms on 6+ targets is nice, too.  My girl was watching me and she goes "OMG there are imps over there, and over there, and there are more over there!!"  It's pretty fun.  It also gives you a Wrathguard (I went Supremacy) to Wrathstorm the stacked bosses as well as use his normal attack which is a cleave by default.  This was particularly useful during Sun's DM because all those stacked adds = yummy Immo Aura + Shadowflame + Wrathstorm damage.

 

I'm sure Aff with UVLS and Wush or BBoY would see favorable results, but damage is one thing...surviving is another.  I think Demonology provides too many survivability pushes to pass up on.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Went to bed at world 5th ten man, woke up and those damn Euros pushed us down to 8th. Oh well, heres what I learned for the first 5 bosses.

 

Heroic Imm: We sat our melee on the boss and had the range spawn and kill adds by having healers dispell on CD with the OT picking up adds ASAP after spawning. I was destro and just spammed DPS on adds all fight other than a few seconds of SB on the boss at the end of each phase. Everyone speads out and kills/heals adds as they run in to the boss, GG fight over. Took 6 pulls. Talents, SL, SF, SL, BR, GoSac, KJC. You need to dodge a shitton of crap so moving filler was nice, also the DPS required is so low that AD wasn't even remotely needed. One of our tanks died 2 min into the fight and we still downed.

 

Heroic Protectors: Tbh, I followed the skull our RL marked and dotted all the things. Ran Aff and just blew shit up. The healing requirement for this fight is fairly high for one of the phases but the DPS requirement is almost non-existent, I'm sure in a few weeks you'll see some troll guild run 2 tanks and 8 disc priests killing it for the lulz. Talents, SL, SF, DB, BR, GoSup, AD. None of these talents are NEEDED for the fight, they are simply what I used. AD for more damage, MF and KJC would be fairly useless. DB was for the damned rogue phase as I was one of the people getting him thrown to and needed to tank him for a moment, as aff this is a little hard to do but with DB and UR and some Drain Life spam I was okay. Demo would be OP for this with DarkApoc.

 

Heroic Norushen: omfg the DPS check on this prick...my guild hasn't see gear AT ALL so we're still ilvl 551avg and had about 8 <5% wipes to this guy before the kill. Ran Aff again, dotted all the things. Up phase is simple, dot all the things and drain soul the crap out of the adds. You get mad shards so I was throwing off haunts on to anything that moved just because more damage and almost unlimited shards. Down phase is mostly the same, dot the big dude and then run around the room SS on to the little guys and then DS for shards before popping out. Talents, SL, SF, SL, BR (BR was very useful for the down phase, getting behind the little adds to DPS them is kind of annoying), GoSup, AD. You NEED AD here. MF is useless and KJC would have been a waste.

 

Heroic Sha of Pride: Um...normal strat really, but you have to jump on fire on the ground every 1 min and you get randomly sent in a down phase where you play Mrs. PacMan with your toon. Aff, SS all the things, GoSup with Observer out to interrupt the big add that spawns. And...ya. Dot all the things, gg. Took maybe 10 pulls. Talents: SL, SF, SL, BR, GoSup, AD. Weird note, the big add that spawned ALWAYS gave shards from DS, but the little effers was hit and miss. Not sure if bugged fight or what was happening. After the first few times I didn't get a shard from them I stopped trying altogether and just sat on boss/big add.

 

Heroic Galakras: If you don't have AMAZING healers, don't waste your time with this guy for a while. The healing throughout the fight is fairly high and then the end phase is just omfg pain, pain, PAIN. I ran aff for 3/4 of our pulls and destro for the other 1/4, I think both did about the same DPS but just in different places. Destro has a clear advantage for the adds 90% of the fight, but aff is a lot better for going in the towers and dropping 7 kind of spaced out targets faster and has higher damage in the end on the main boss. Ether way, you can run both with about the same level of DPS, just depends on what you want and what you need. I glyphed my personal port for this boss because I was using it so many places, to get out of fire on the road when fighting adds, to port to the base of the tower to run up after the destroyer was dead, to port back very fast after getting hit by the knock back, to run the hell away from the boss to kite the orb. Just all over the place, 4 seconds off the CD might not sound like much but it helped a lot. Talents, SL, SF, SL, BR, GoSup with observer in Aff so I could help int the Shaman and GoSac in destro with Fel Hunter for the same reason, AD in both aff and destro. MF *might* be useful in destro, but I wouldn't. MF is just crapy imo and you won't seeing me use it unless I am totally forced to. The DPS gain from AD is a must and KJC is meh for this fight. There IS a lot of moment, but it doesn't make up the loss of another DS. I could see demo doing VERY well on this fight, if we had a few more pulls of missing DPS by a hair I would have dropped destro and gone demo for it. But in the end we killed it on our 3rd final phase pull. The rough part was getting there and seeing the healers puckering in the end phase healing.

 

Our logs are private for another week or two but ballpark DPS for Imm was 275k, Protectors 315k, Norushen 255k, SoP 235k, Galakras 200k. There is a LOT of down time in the Galakras fight, makes for crappy logs as a dot class.

 

We raid again today starting at 2 PST, I'll repost with new thoughts for what bosses we kill sometime tomorrow morning-ish.

[Zagam 1,982]

Good luck, boss.  we got Norushen to 15% sending only 4 DPS in.  I stayed out and Destro'd the adds mostly, but we're planning on sending me in tonight to see if that's the push we need.  BL stalled on Malkorok, so I'm dreading that one on heroic. 

 

Small questions: 2 or 3 heal Galakros, 2 or 3 heal Norushen, and did you send all DPS on Noru?

[Twona 1]

Did you guys 2 or 3 heal protectors? I've seen most three heal, but our two heal attempts were kinda smooth yesterday. Got about half way through the fight.

I'm also wondering about Norushen amount of healers.

I think affliction would be better for the Norushen adds than destro. As locky said, so many adds spawn that unlimited soul shards for haunt spam would be amazing at bursting them quickly.

[Zagam 1,982]

We used 3 for Protectors...probably why our enrage timer was so tight.  Looked doable with two as long as CDs were rolled, but raid damage can get pretty crazy.  Perhaps with an extra DPS, Garrote and SW:Bane damage isn't so high. 

 

For Norushen, the 6.1M big adds die so fast, Agony wouldn't get a chance to stack high.  I'm finding Havoc + Chaos Bolt to be better.  The small adds can be nearly solo'd by Destruction as well.  As long as you can get a Shadowburn off on them, you'll have unlimited embers, much like you have shards.  Both specs are likely fine on the fight...just comes down to preference. 

[Lockybalboa 618]

For Norushen, the 6.1M big adds die so fast, Agony wouldn't get a chance to stack high.  much like you have shards.  Both specs are likely fine on the fight...just comes down to preference. 

 

 

That's why you just SS off of the boss on to the adds. No stacking time when you just move a 10 stack from Boss to add. But yes, both specs are likely fine for the fight assuming you can meet DPS requirement. I'm not an amazing destro player and with the adds being bursted so hard it's sometimes kind of a pain to get that SB in before it dies, thus why I gave up and just affed. Dotting all the things and casting haunt like bullets from a tommy gun was doing a good bit more dps.

 

We three healed Imm (mostly because of range issues), protectors, and for 90% of our pulls on Norushen. Once our healers were used to the fight they found they were able to two heal it, we NEEDED to two heal it because of enrage issues. Even with our monk fistweaving for 65% of the fight we were still coming up 4-6% short. SoP and Gala was two healed, SoP is fairly easy and Gala is more about burning the boss REALLY fast at the end rather than healing though the damage. The last 2-4 seconds of the fight the raid was taking 350k PER PERSON PER SECOND. A few more seconds and that just isn't healable, doesn't matter much if it's two or three healers at that point. One shots can't be healed though.

 

EDIT: I missed one of your questions, Zag; tbh I'm not really sure who/when we sent down, I was busy with SSing so much crap and tracking 3dots*4adds+1boss that I was using all my brain power for that and just jumped down when our RL said too. From what I seem to remember we did Spriest, me, rogue, hunter, warrior, Spriest, me, hunter/warrior. All of this was staggered as being person (2) goes down as soon as person (1) big add dies in the up phase, soon as it dies person (2) goes down and kills their big followed by smalls. That last hunter/warrior they jumped down at the same time. Make sure you have as much/all of your DPS purified for lust.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Lockybalboa

[Zagam 1,982]

Gotcha.  Thanks for tips.  Kick Iron Juggz ass tonight.  Dark Shamans sounds awful in 10 man...Totem of Iron Prison?  Get real.

[Nyanchan 2]

Ive only done immersus heroic, but i think affli is the worst spec for it. Hardest part is the small adds while not stacking too much debuff from boss, I used demo with immo aura and MF, gg on the adds, highest damage by far at the end of the fight. Also pets dont stack the debuff. Careful with void raid since its bugged, its not single target and yet it gives you the debuff.

 

For protectors still not sure which is better, demo or affli, you gotta get pretty lucky to get uvols to proc when 3 adds r out, so doin it as affli seems to make them drop faster, i was getting 400k constant dps as affli, 320-350ish as demo, then again only got to bout 30%.

[Vile 9]

We hade more than enough DPS for adds in both P1 and P2 on Immerseus. I was topping single target damage on the boss and thanks to SB:CoEx i could always slow a cluster of adds in P2 which helped buying extra time for strong cleavers to move there.

I agree on Affliction for Protectors as it is much more reliable damage.

For both these fights Twilight Ward is a godsend. Almost all damage from Immerseus is shadow so pop it on cooldown the entire fight, and on Protectors you can have it up for every Calamity which, together with your Leech shield pretty much negates it completely. This way you can save UR for Garrote.

Edited September 19, 2013 by sallyboo