Frost dk stat priority questions

[Lifvana 1]

Hello all, with 7.1 coming soon, I am wondering what % of each stat I should be aiming for, mainly just interested in mythic+ and normal raids. My armory is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/windrunner/Lifvana/simple . Not sure why it's saying I have 34.5% haste, it's more like 20-22% in game, with 28% crit and 25% mastery. My gear is kinda all over the place cause I play blood as well. I can give the exact percents I have once I get home in a couple hours, and  I have another 835 ring which I will post the stats of it when I get home. Sorry if the formatting is bad, first post and on my phone haha. Edit: Once I get the exact percentages of my stats, if someone could let me know the ideal enchants I should use, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much! :)

Edited October 19, 2016 by Lifvana

[Lifvana 1]

Main reason I don't like haste is because it makes it a bit harder to keep up frozen pulse, especially during Heroism/Bloodlust. Thinking about getting my crit to 30% then stacking mastery? Honestly, I'm not too sure. I switch between blood and frost mainly, but occasionally I play unholy. Frost is still my main spec so for enchants/gems I want to optimize them for frost.

[Lifvana 1]

The ring is 835 ilvl, 595 haste, 1141 mastery.

[demonardvark 556]

Your stats are pretty good. You are more or less haste capped. At a min I'd say shoot for 4% more Crit to be around 25% and at that point start funneling more into mastery. If wanting to do OBRA i'd say get to 30% crit but if fine with machine gun then 25% crit and mastery stack will do ya good.

[Impurex 5]

1 hour ago, demonardvark said:

Your stats are pretty good. You are more or less haste capped. At a min I'd say shoot for 4% more Crit to be around 25% and at that point start funneling more into mastery. If wanting to do OBRA i'd say get to 30% crit but if fine with machine gun then 25% crit and mastery stack will do ya good.

Icy Veins states 20% critcap and then mass haste on frost. They lying? 

[demonardvark 556]

1 hour ago, Impurex said:

Icy Veins states 20% critcap and then mass haste on frost. They lying? 

Lol this is icy veins. I'm going to patchwork quote the current writer here

As for the stat weights, all the stats are very close together and at some point in Legion, every single stat will be your #1 stat (except for vers), because of how your values will change as you get gear.  The reason for the 20% crit breakpoint is that if I sim at 19% crit, it becomes my #1 stat, but if I sim at 22% crit, it becomes my 3rd best, and hasn't passed haste or mastery since I was below 20%.

The gist of it is the hard guide has the best general overall sim weights to fit most playstyles. However, for more specific min maxing or alternating playstyles, different stats are needed. DK's are in stat hell right now and a single piece of gear will completely change your stat priorities, the short is we need everything. 

So no, the guide writer is not lying at all. However, the topic creator has stated their particular interests thus we can advise them further beyond the general guide. 

[Impurex 5]

2 hours ago, demonardvark said:

Lol this is icy veins. I'm going to patchwork quote the current writer here

As for the stat weights, all the stats are very close together and at some point in Legion, every single stat will be your #1 stat (except for vers), because of how your values will change as you get gear.  The reason for the 20% crit breakpoint is that if I sim at 19% crit, it becomes my #1 stat, but if I sim at 22% crit, it becomes my 3rd best, and hasn't passed haste or mastery since I was below 20%.

The gist of it is the hard guide has the best general overall sim weights to fit most playstyles. However, for more specific min maxing or alternating playstyles, different stats are needed. DK's are in stat hell right now and a single piece of gear will completely change your stat priorities, the short is we need everything. 

So no, the guide writer is not lying at all. However, the topic creator has stated their particular interests thus we can advise them further beyond the general guide. 

Yeah, makes sense. It's actually not necessarily a bad thing to need all kinds of stats. Just makes getting gear easy in the beginning. Guess the biggest issue with it is that over the entire playerbase we seem to be doing better than others, as most DK's have more or less equally spread out stats (so have good stats) whilst with classes that have a more distinct stat priority have more variance between top and bottom (because of stat prio). 

[demonardvark 556]

27 minutes ago, Impurex said:

Yeah, makes sense. It's actually not necessarily a bad thing to need all kinds of stats. Just makes getting gear easy in the beginning. Guess the biggest issue with it is that over the entire playerbase we seem to be doing better than others, as most DK's have more or less equally spread out stats (so have good stats) whilst with classes that have a more distinct stat priority have more variance between top and bottom (because of stat prio). 

It actually is a very bad thing. DK scaling has always been bad but now its worse than ever. It's why the DK community was in an uproar. Unholy doesn't scale period and while frost does scale its minorly in comparison. So currently take a Demo lock stacking haste, a 10% haste increase can be a 20k dps increase while for frost its maybe 1% at best. The issue with DK's needing so many stats is that we require so much for limited functionality increase and we hit diminishing returns very quickly. The fact that sims can't figure out properly how to work with frost is a showcase of how messed up it is. 

So no, requiring a lot of multiple stats is actually very bad. DK's are in a very questionable spot and the bandaid buffs we are getting is only delaying a lot of the issues at best. It would be awesome if blood dks could just stack mastery and say GG or if frost dks only needed crit but sadly that's not the case.

[Impurex 5]

50 minutes ago, demonardvark said:

It actually is a very bad thing. DK scaling has always been bad but now its worse than ever. It's why the DK community was in an uproar. Unholy doesn't scale period and while frost does scale its minorly in comparison. So currently take a Demo lock stacking haste, a 10% haste increase can be a 20k dps increase while for frost its maybe 1% at best. The issue with DK's needing so many stats is that we require so much for limited functionality increase and we hit diminishing returns very quickly. The fact that sims can't figure out properly how to work with frost is a showcase of how messed up it is. 

So no, requiring a lot of multiple stats is actually very bad. DK's are in a very questionable spot and the bandaid buffs we are getting is only delaying a lot of the issues at best. It would be awesome if blood dks could just stack mastery and say GG or if frost dks only needed crit but sadly that's not the case.

I'm not talking about the scaling. That's messed up for sure. I'm saying that having a stat weight distribution that's close together is good for the casual raider because generally ilvl upgrades beat stat priorities. It makes gearing up really easy. However, I don't think a evenly distributed stat priority is the cause for scaling issues, that's a whole other topic. 

[demonardvark 556]

39 minutes ago, Impurex said:

I'm not talking about the scaling. That's messed up for sure. I'm saying that having a stat weight distribution that's close together is good for the casual raider because generally ilvl upgrades beat stat priorities. It makes gearing up really easy. However, I don't think a evenly distributed stat priority is the cause for scaling issues, that's a whole other topic. 

The stat distribution is tied more to bloods performance than anything. Scaling issues are due to ability design not the stats themselves correct, my meaning more is that, requiring a wider range of stats means more work for similar or less payout. Yes certainly frost and unholy can get okay rather easily, its quite easy to gear up early on, almost adopting the old hunter mind set "all gear is hunter gear". However, beyond initial gearing it requires more effort and time to move from okay to great. 

[Lifvana 1]

23 hours ago, demonardvark said:

The stat distribution is tied more to bloods performance than anything. Scaling issues are due to ability design not the stats themselves correct, my meaning more is that, requiring a wider range of stats means more work for similar or less payout. Yes certainly frost and unholy can get okay rather easily, its quite easy to gear up early on, almost adopting the old hunter mind set "all gear is hunter gear". However, beyond initial gearing it requires more effort and time to move from okay to great. 

Thank you for replying to all my comments, I appreciate it :). Been focusing on crit and mastery and I'm at 30% crit, 40% mastery, and only 11% haste because I didn't read your comments until today haha. Would it be worth sacrificing some crit or mastery for haste? For both machine gun and OBRA I am just wondering if there is a minimum % of haste I should always have. Is 18% or so good enough? Thanks again! Edit: I can get myself to 25% crit, 19-20% haste, 35% mastery with my current gear. I'm sure I can swap around pieces as needed too.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Lifvana

[demonardvark 556]

3 minutes ago, Lifvana said:

Thank you for replying to all my comments, I appreciate it :). Been focusing on crit and mastery and I'm at 30% crit, 40% mastery, and only 11% haste because I didn't read your comments until today haha. Would it be worth sacrificing some crit or mastery for haste? For both machine gun and OBRA I am just wondering if there is a minimum % of haste I should always have. Is 18% or so good enough? Thanks again! Edit: I can get myself to 25% crit, 19-20% haste, 35% mastery with my current gear. I'm sure I can swap around pieces as needed too.

18% haste is the frost sweet spot, im honestly finding 20% to be a bit too much for frost, makes frozen pulse harder to keep up (until next week). so yeah your edit stats look good :D

[Lifvana 1]

42 minutes ago, demonardvark said:

18% haste is the frost sweet spot, im honestly finding 20% to be a bit too much for frost, makes frozen pulse harder to keep up (until next week). so yeah your edit stats look good :D

Yeah I am at 18% haste now, forgot I had a food buff haha. I guess I'll try to build up my crit close to 30% while keeping 18% haste. You're right though, it is hard to balance my stats, I'm trying to work on blood mainly though. If I plan on mostly just mythic+, do you think Blood Feast after SS would be better than Mouth? I'm not sure how effective it is, never used it. Almost have enough AP for SS. Thank you for all your help.

[demonardvark 556]

On 10/21/2016 at 2:15 PM, Lifvana said:

Yeah I am at 18% haste now, forgot I had a food buff haha. I guess I'll try to build up my crit close to 30% while keeping 18% haste. You're right though, it is hard to balance my stats, I'm trying to work on blood mainly though. If I plan on mostly just mythic+, do you think Blood Feast after SS would be better than Mouth? I'm not sure how effective it is, never used it. Almost have enough AP for SS. Thank you for all your help.

Honestly Mouth is probably my favorite blood trait we get. It is leagues above anything else a super powerful cooldown and just gives us an amazingly huge dps and self defense buff. I love me some double runic weapon. The triple plagues, triple boneshield, triple heart strike is just glorious. So, i personally really recommend Mouth.