Time for demo?

[Creepzy 0]

Hi I'm turning here for some advice I have been reading these forum and its fun to see how many ppl actually wants to help others get better in theire gameplay.

I'm a casual player and we raid just once per week but still I would like to perform good.

Up until now I have been playing dest all the way and just used demo for fun outside raid but after we now hit council u just felt I was way under performing :(.

If I reforge for demo will it gimp me much for destruction and how should I reforge and glyph?

I'm not used to tweak mrrobot and I can't get the hang of how they valuate the trinkets (read your guide about it tho)

Her is a link to my armory

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/thunderhorn/Bansheé/simple

[Elro 47]

If you go with the haste >= mastery > crit build that a lot of demo locks use, you will do just fine in destro and demo. You have a lot of crit, and crit for locks is crap. Hopefully, one of our more experienced locks will take a look soon and give you a bit more to go on, but I know Zagam, our demo guru, advises staying away from Demo until you have Unerring Vision of Lei Shen. It's a gamechanger for the spec, makes us insanely powerful.

[Brown 14]

Demo can burst fine without UVLS but it's just so damn annoying dealing with RPPM (anyone with UVLS can attest to damage output differences between encounters with good/well-spaced procs and encounters where most of your time is spent inserting a /yell into your Shadow Bolts asking where the damn procs are).

And it's really more like haste to the nearest achievable breakpoint then mastery mastery mastery.

[Elro 47]

Agreed, Brown. I play demo without UVLS and I can do decent dps, and I've seen lots of discussion over the proc rate being a royal pain, but it does make the spec easier to play, in SOME ways. And, if the proc rate plays nice...army of little imps :D

[Cruzan 71]

Demo still does fine without UVLS, it's just a lot tougher without it. The burst is as high, if not higher, on the opener without UVLS since the trinket doesn't do much for the opener's damage, but it really helps smooth out the peaks and valleys of the spec. Constant streams of imps take the rollercoaster, CD oriented DPS that Demo had up to 5.2 and evened it out a lot.

So to not ramble on, a decent reforge mark would be to hit 8064 haste and throw the rest in to mastery while reforging out of crit wherever you can. Mr. Robot is a very useful tool and it would be good for you to learn how to use it! Its not too complicated and the site has plenty of blogs and info to guide you along. If you need more info on figuring out how to use it I'm sure we can help, just let us know.

As for glyphs, I'm guessing you're wondering about glyph of everlasting affliction. That glyph is pretty much only for people who have UVLS so don't worry about using it until the trinket drops for you

Hopefully, one of our more experienced locks will take a look soon and give you a bit more to go on

Don't sell yourself short, all opinions and advice are welcome here Edited July 5, 2013 by Cruzan

[Creepzy 0]

Thx for the replies.

Yes I did wonder about the glyph and if it would be worth using it during council atleast.

I have been trying to understand mrrobot but feeling abit lost when I'm trying to go outside the default builds and set my own stat req.

if I use that does optimize just use the gems I have or do i get suggestions to change what's needed there to?

I have ofc read the demo guide to but my feeling is that I lack alot of df to actually follow the opener trough.

Do I only refresh corrupt with ToC as in stance dancing more or less or is that a total loss and I should just hard cast it to keep it up?

[Cruzan 71]

So I replied to someone who is in pretty much the same boat as you at this link. It shows examples of different ways to manipulate the stat weights in mr robot to get it to optimize the way you want. You can also set your haste soft cap from that weights menu.

If you want to keep the gems you have, you'll have to lock them in place (click on them and it should bring up a screen that lets you swap/lock gems/enchants/reforges. I don't recommend it unless you're a little on the broke side and swapping gems is too expensive. Don't forget to use the new Beta Optimizer in the options menu! It works really well.

About DF on the opener, I definitely couldn't follow Zagam's opener without the 2pc T15 bonus. His opener is also tailored to reacting to UVLS' Perfect Aim procs so you need to adjust based on not having that trinket. Your goal for the opener should be to maximize the amount of time you spend in meta while DS is active. Adding things like pre-casting shadowbolt on the pull, using Grim of Service: Felguard( Not sure if this snapshots or updates dynamically. If it snapshots you'll want to cast it at the same time or after DS I don;t remember because DS and GoS:F are macroed together for me), popping Imp Swarm, getting a 2 stack of HoG/SF off before going in to Meta will really get you a decent amount of DF to work with, but you'll probably have to jump out at some point before DS wears off anyway. **Note** That wasn't listed as an example opener, just some extra spells to toss in to Zagam's listed opener to generate extra DF.

For Corruption/ToC dancing, I personally don't do that anymore. I rarely go in to Meta with the sole purpose of extending Corruption's duration. Usually I'm going in to Meta to react to a proc, burn off excess DF or to burst with CDs. Its hard to judge since locks who use UVLS have a higher static DF generation than a lock without it, so we can be in Meta more often. You'll need to be more picky about when you go in to Meta, so I'd say it's not a terrible choice to cast corruption manually on occasion if you're low on DF and you don't have any procs active. In the end, higher Corruption up-time is more important than anything since it is mainly used for DF generation and not so much for it's damage.

[obleak 10]

Demo still does fine without UVLS, it's just a lot tougher without it. The burst is as high, if not higher, on the opener without UVLS since the trinket doesn't do much for the opener's damage, but it really helps smooth out the peaks and valleys of the spec. Constant streams of imps take the rollercoaster, CD oriented DPS that Demo had up to 5.2 and evened it out a lot.

So to not ramble on, a decent reforge mark would be to hit 8064 haste and throw the rest in to mastery while reforging out of crit wherever you can. Mr. Robot is a very useful tool and it would be good for you to learn how to use it! Its not too complicated and the site has plenty of blogs and info to guide you along. If you need more info on figuring out how to use it I'm sure we can help, just let us know.

As for glyphs, I'm guessing you're wondering about glyph of everlasting affliction. That glyph is pretty much only for people who have UVLS so don't worry about using it until the trinket drops for you

Don't sell yourself short, all opinions and advice are welcome here

Not sure if you've had your trinket back to back proc and you get a few 700k+ soul fires.. that's pretty great damage increase burst wise.. otherwise they're right not a huge buff to your burst usually

[grautod 6]

I'm a casual player and we raid just once per week but still I would like to perform good.

Up until now I have been playing dest all the way and just used demo for fun outside raid but after we now hit council u just felt I was way under performing .

Hi Banshee

its great your trying to improve, and getting the fights in ToT right does take time. One of the keys to getting good dps is knowing the playing style of your spec well. While my main I raid in ToT with is a Shaman I do have a warlock alt which I have had on different specs.

My experience as a "low" hours player of warlocks is the Demonology is complex, and I found it difficult to get the most out of. All the spells and changing shape shift forms is very different from most character and specs. If you feel the movement in Council is one of the main reason your dps is down (and there is a lot of movement) can I suggest you consider Affliction?

I find Affliction is much easier rotation and ideally suited to council where you can multi-dot to push up the damage. I know in our raid leader is keep to keep DoTs rolling on Sul et al and Affliction is great for this.

I know this didn't answer the specific question around reforging but hopefully it answers the request for help on improving play.

[Creepzy 0]

Hi Banshee

its great your trying to improve, and getting the fights in ToT right does take time. One of the keys to getting good dps is knowing the playing style of your spec well. While my main I raid in ToT with is a Shaman I do have a warlock alt which I have had on different specs.

My experience as a "low" hours player of warlocks is the Demonology is complex, and I found it difficult to get the most out of. All the spells and changing shape shift forms is very different from most character and specs. If you feel the movement in Council is one of the main reason your dps is down (and there is a lot of movement) can I suggest you consider Affliction?

I find Affliction is much easier rotation and ideally suited to council where you can multi-dot to push up the damage. I know in our raid leader is keep to keep DoTs rolling on Sul et al and Affliction is great for this.

I know this didn't answer the specific question around reforging but hopefully it answers the request for help on improving play.

well its rly not the movement that drags me down tbh and i have been affliction for most of the content before ToT and im rly bored of it so that wount happen imo. atm i like that demo is complex i just need to practice and chase that trinket i guess.

What would the breakpoint to reach for be if i dont calcutate with the 5 % buff?

Our team is way from optimal so sadly we are missing it 9/10 and im often the only ranged.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Banshee

[Brown 14]

I just started doing Vodun rituals before raid to get more UVLS procs. Tried praying and the usual sports-fan-superstitions, didn't work.

RPPM makes me sad on Council. Even when I afk to get a drink and get a res.

[Cruzan 71]

Not sure if you've had your trinket back to back proc and you get a few 700k+ soul fires.. that's pretty great damage increase burst wise.. otherwise they're right not a huge buff to your burst usually

Haha yeah I have. The first time it happened I thought my Weakaura icon was bugged...

What would the breakpoint to reach for be if i dont calcutate with the 5 % buff?

Our team is way from optimal so sadly we are missing it 9/10 and im often the only ranged.

Well I highly recommend you ask if there's any way you can get the buff. If you have someone who can play a hunter, they can bring spell haste as well. Even if you're the only ranged caster dps, your healers benefit a lot from the buff as well. Classes can do without attack speed or some other buffs more than we do without spell haste since we reforge around a specific value. But...If there is absolutely no way for you to get it, then your two nearest breakpoints are 7078 for Corruption and 10592 for Shadowflame. I guess 7078 will have to do

Edited July 6, 2013 by Cruzan

[Brown 14]

What would the breakpoint to reach for be if i dont calcutate with the 5 % buff?

Our team is way from optimal so sadly we are missing it 9/10 and im often the only ranged.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/haste/warlockdemonology

Whenever in doubt just check stuff you have/don't have. Eventually the numbers will be etched into your brain.

[Creepzy 0]

Thx all for the great help I go reforge stuff and regem as soon my vacation is over and I'm back home.

To brown I actually found that page but fore some reason I couldn't uncheck the 5% spell haste that's why I asked.

Thx for the numbers cruzan.

[Cruzan 71]

The page Brown linked is very good for finding the values quickly. If you want disable spell haste for your optimization, you'll have to go in to the options and check the "disable 5% spell haste" box.

[uconnfan34 4]

Just so everyone knows you should not be shooting for 8064 break point you should be shooting for 8097.

• 3036 - Extra tick of Doom
• 4198 - Extra tick of corruption during heroism
• 4717 - Extra tick of corruption
• 7658 - Extra tick of corruption during heroism
• 8064 - Extra tick of shadowflame
• 8097 - Extra tick of doom during heroism (maybe 8094 with glyph of everlasting affliction?)

You want that 8097 breakpoint to get extra ticks of doom during lust. I personally get to 8097 or as close as you can above it then stack the rest into mastery and I see great results and do very well on all fights. This seems to be a good rule of thumb for most demo locks that I talk to and see on forums but hitting that 8097 breakpoint is what you need to hit.

Edited July 9, 2013 by uconnfan34

[Zagam 1,982]

Not sure anyone has recommended the 8064 threshold here. Shadowflame isn't important enough to reforge to in regards to a threshold. The important part to remember is to keep Haste and Mastery close, not stack one or the other. They work together. Take my reforge as an example...I think I'm toting 10.3k Haste and 11.4k Mastery. I'm not going to do better or worse gaining another 1k Mastery after giving up the 1k Haste and vice versa.

TL;DR: Insert broken record message here.

[Creepzy 0]

To finish this tread off i just would like to know how close are the specs now?

is someone pulling ahead with ilv.

Am I just gonna bit my own head off by changing to demo with ilv 517?

Destruction is rly easy going and I wanted a bit of more challange but not to any cost and not if demo would be falling behind.

How realistic is this tbh.

http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic

I have always been very sceptic about noxxic since they been very wrong on other classes in the past.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Banshee

[Omaric 246]

Noxxic isn't realistic to me. I use raidbots now and compare over all parses. Generally in the 70-90 percentile to remove the super charged outliers that use every resource available to inflate their damage.

If you've got a UVoLS, then try out Demo. If not, Destruction is very solid at your ilvl. At the highest end of raiding right now, both Affliction and Demonology are doing well. Destruction starts to lag a bit behind, but a good Destruction warlock can still shit on other DPS. I feel like, if Destruction had some number tweaks, they would be the most adaptable spec for us.

[Creepzy 0]

Noxxic isn't realistic to me. I use raidbots now and compare over all parses. Generally in the 70-90 percentile to remove the super charged outliers that use every resource available to inflate their damage.

If you've got a UVoLS, then try out Demo. If not, Destruction is very solid at your ilvl. At the highest end of raiding right now, both Affliction and Demonology are doing well. Destruction starts to lag a bit behind, but a good Destruction warlock can still shit on other DPS. I feel like, if Destruction had some number tweaks, they would be the most adaptable spec for us.

thx i will stick to destruction for now and just use the demo for fun to get a more hang of it until i get me the trinket, with our progression tempo it will be some time until i get any major upgrades my major consern is what will happen to our 6th talent and how bad it will hurt defferemt specs.

again lots of thx for all the info and imputs i have gotten from all here.