Mythic dungeon plus guide for DPS dks.

[Drtain 74]

There may be some controversy to what I am about to say, but from a DPS dk who has completed a 14 on time and multiple above 10, as well as tons other lower ones these are my findings. 

Unholy Vs Frost. Simple answer Unholy. Complex answer it depends on group comp, generally speaking unholy out performs frost in all ways via mythic dungeons, except in the CC department. While both Unholy and frost are very close as far as their ability to do dungeons frost falls behind in most spots especially on boss dmg in the aspect of it having much better kill times because of their superior burst. This being said if your group comp doesn't have some sort of AOE stun such as a shaman, warrior, warlock, etc. Frost can be useful if they take the stun talent where Remorseless winter and pillar of frost up stuns after it stacks, though to be honest it falls behind compared to other classes as it relies on 2 cds, and time to go off.

Unholy: 

• Talents: The current standard Unholy raid build.                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
• Consumable: You should be trying to use as many potions of prolonged power as possible during higher dungeons, using them right before the tank pulls is ideal and waiting until you drop combat and pull another pack popping it right before hand again is the ideal way to do this, only ever use 2 potions back to back if the adds are extremely health and take a long time to kill. (I.E bears in DHT, or 2 giants in EoA.)  I suggest using mastery or crit food for mythic +s and of course strength flasks.   (food is really up to you I mastery is better.)   Use potion of old war on bosses.                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
• PlayStyle:The reason you choose Both Sludge Belcher, and Infected claws is because when you Transform your pet he AoE Cleave attacks, yes that means you can apply like 30 stacks of wounds on 20 mobs, then throw down death and decay and spam Scourge strike procing tons of wounds doing tons of damage on top of bursting sores aoeing as well. This allows your group to do very large pulls, and doing these insane bursts of aoe on a short 1 minute cooldown, you should try and communicate with your tank though as much as possible so that you know when he's going to pull big, or small so you know to save cds or use them. As far as using cds goes as mentioned Transformation becomes a large cooldown as well as D&D correctly managing these cds can easily shave between 1-6 minutes off your time depending how your group utilizes this. Apocalypse I suggest using this off CD unless your going to pull boss within the cooldown that would be set upon it if you were to cast it, this also applies to soul reaper. Gargoyle I suggest using this on where ever there is a hard mob, including bosses when ever you would be doubling potting though generally is a good time to use this because bear hurt a lot. Army of the dead I suggest you use this when ever you guys are lusting it pares very well with lust giving you 15% dmg increase for the duration of lust as well as it's natural damage.                                                                                                                                                                                                                              
• Gear: Generally speaking nothing really changes here other than mastery being semi more valuable than normal because of more bursting sores and such but generally speaking keep your normal gear on. AS far as trinket go it comes down to your group comp, ask you self how good is your groups single target for bosses, and how good is it at aoeing for trash. If your groups dmg is more single target based use AOE trinkets, ideally terrorbound nexus is a amazing trinket. If your group is aoe based I suggest you use single target trinkets of course. If your groups damage is fairly balenced I generally go for single target trinkets, your aoe damage is already INSANE if you properly manage cds. I should also mention that in +13 or higher just always use single target trinkets, aoe pulls become much less common and generally single target trinkets will be much more valuable.                                                                                                                                                                              
•  Tips, and tricks: The only things I really have to mention here is that you always attempt to grip in targets as much as possible, and if you have Sehpuz's ring using your pets stun will proc this. Also that your pet has it's own grip and can be very valuable for a second grip if you're pet is in the proper place. Macro for pet hook--
• #showtooltip Hook
  /cast [target=mouseover] Hook
   
• FaQ: No questions asked feel free to ask any comments.

 

Frost:

• Talents: The current BoS build works best in m+ right now from my experience..              
• Consumable: you should be trying to use as many potions of prolonged power as possible during higher dungeons, using them right before the tank pulls is ideal and waiting until you drop combat and pull another pack popping it right before hand again is the ideal way to do this, only ever use 2 potions back to back if the adds are extremely health and take a long time to kill. (I.E bears in DHT, or 2 giants in EoA.) AS far as food goes I suggest mastery food here, and using of course strength flask.  Also worth note that potion of old war on bosses is best.                                                                                              
• Playstyle: There really isn't much to this. The main thing you have to be aware of as frost is your positioning both Glacial Advance, and Frost Scythe require positional placement to hit as many targets as possible for maximum damage. Cooldown management is rather minute for this spec the only thing you need to really be aware of is using Sindragosa's fury on large packs of mobs because it does a lot of solid burst dmg. That being said make sure you are careful where you are aiming it, it can and 100% will agro more mobs either by hitting them or having mobs running over the slowed area it's a very large range and very wide.                                                                                                            
• Gear: Generally speaking nothing really changes here other than mastery being semi more valuable than normal but generally speaking keep your normal gear on. AS far as trinket go it comes down to your group comp, ask you self how good is your groups single target for bosses, and how good is it at aoeing for trash. If your groups dmg is more single target based use AOE trinkets, ideally terrorbound nexus is a amazing trinket. If your group is aoe based I suggest you use single target trinkets of course. If your groups damage is fairly balenced I generally go for single target trinkets, your aoe damage is already INSANE if you properly manage cds. I should also mention that in +13 or higher just always use single target trinkets, aoe pulls become much less common and generally single target trinkets will be much more valuable. Also worthy mention of Windscar Whet stone though not ideal unless you seriously need AOE dmg like you have a Shadow priest, and assasination rogue in your group. (just so you know i'm suggesting whetstone here as a second aoe trinket combined with Terrorbound)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
• Tips: Making sure you stun everything off cooldown as frost is very important unless they are really low health, since your stun is super low cd it's super easy to just use it off CD, thanks to Icecap. Also keeping icy Talons up during trash may seem not very worthwhile but it 100% is try and keep it up as much as possible because it allows you to get more killing machines, which inturn allows you to get more Frost Scythes off, which again allows you to get more Pillar of Frost off, i've found you can nearly keep Pillar up for over 50% of the dungeon allowing you to get basically an extra 10% strength and more stuns.                                                                                                                                                             
• FaQ: No questions asked feel free to ask any comments.

 

 

I am sorry this guide might look ugly as far as and is admittedly not very clean looking, I intend on cleaning it up if the post gets some attention. Also yes I did copy paste some stuff from unholy into frost just because a lot of the points stay the same. Also any mistakes please point them out as far as spelling or wording go.

[Shells 64]

I love the guide, thanks for putting it up. 

 

I will try to make one up for Blood to complement this guide.

[demonardvark 556]

An excellent start and very detailed good for answering a lot of starting questions. Your one note that I really like is that the best dps spec comes down to your group comp. I think that is more realistic of an answer than one just being better than the other. Mythic + requires a different toolkit than raiding, so playing what helps your group is a smart choice +1 internet.

As this expands or if you want it to, you may want to follow suit in the raid tips and tricks guide and list each dungeon and people can contribute their own feedback or tricks on what they have found is good in certain mythic + scenarios. 

By all means shells make a blood sister guide for this one :) 

[Drtain 74]

1 hour ago, demonardvark said:

An excellent start and very detailed good for answering a lot of starting questions. Your one note that I really like is that the best dps spec comes down to your group comp. I think that is more realistic of an answer than one just being better than the other. Mythic + requires a different toolkit than raiding, so playing what helps your group is a smart choice +1 internet.

As this expands or if you want it to, you may want to follow suit in the raid tips and tricks guide and list each dungeon and people can contribute their own feedback or tricks on what they have found is good in certain mythic + scenarios. 

By all means shells make a blood sister guide for this one :) 

As much as i want to make a guide for each dungeon there isn't much to say most of it's based on your tanks and how you pull, this being said i was tempted to make a guide for just what packs i try and save cds for, though i believe this would be rather confusing for some people (example: Alright for EoA in I try and save my Dark Transformation for the Crabs that we pull 3 groups to the back left of Serpentrix.) sounds kind of hard to grasp what exactly i am talking about, unless I were to make a map to compliment it which maybe? is a solution. Also thought about video "guides" just uploading videos of our +10s and pointing out when and where i use/save cds and for what.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Drtain

[demonardvark 556]

56 minutes ago, Drtain said:

As much as i want to make a guide for each dungeon there isn't much to say most of it's based on your tanks and how you pull, this being said i was tempted to make a guide for just what packs i try and save cds for, though i believe this would be rather confusing for some people (example: Alright for EoA in I try and save my Dark Transformation for the Crabs that we pull 3 groups to the back left of Serpentrix.) sounds kind of hard to grasp what exactly i am talking about, unless I were to make a map to compliment it which maybe? is a solution. Also thought about video "guides" just uploading videos of our +10s and pointing out when and where i use/save cds and for what.

yeah....no....... lol i see your point. fine as is :D

[demonardvark 556]

pinned for visibility :D

[Aegis 27]

15 hours ago, Shells said:

I love the guide, thanks for putting it up. 

 

I will try to make one up for Blood to complement this guide.

DO IT!!!!

[riparooni 0]

For frost dps since you're basically taking the old machine gun build do you go back to the machine gun rotation as well, or stick with OBRA rotation except for mobs+adds where you would use frostscythe?

[demonardvark 556]

8 hours ago, riparooni said:

For frost dps since you're basically taking the old machine gun build do you go back to the machine gun rotation as well, or stick with OBRA rotation except for mobs+adds where you would use frostscythe?

It's really your choice more or less. Scythe demolishes adds and is great for quick clearing. In mythic +s the adds are more of a priority than anything. However OBRA by default has very strong 2-3 target cleave inherent in just how it works (frozen pulse rime procs) so in many ways its a manner of taste. Now, if you have a lot of tomes you might frostscythe until boss then switch to OBRA but that would be expensive (at least on my server). 

The deciding factor for me is which dungeon is it. Some like halls of valor have numerous higher count trash packs versus things like say darkheart we end up with fewer small clumped groups. So, it varies on dungeon and choice, either one is fine honestly. 

[Drtain 74]

What Demon said.

[Drtain 74]

Just curious people do you want me to upload a raw video of my group doing a mythic + or two, not to show guides to specific dungeons or how to pull, because i'm pretty sure we pull dungeons sub optimally. But just to show communication/my perspective of the dungeon and when I use what?

 

-- It'd be unholy not frost.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Drtain

[Shells 64]

That would be good, cheers

[tzanet 0]

On 11/1/2016 at 10:12 AM, Drtain said:

Unholy Vs Frost. Simple answer Unholy

I'm curious. Are you talking about instructor's 4th lesson - unholy or just unholy?? 

[Drtain 74]

@tzanet Without instructors. That being said without the bracers it's very close and more preference based.

[Vorguz 33]

On 1.11.2016 at 9:12 AM, Drtain said:

Talents: Bursting Sores, Pestilent Pustules, Castigator, Sludge Belcher, Lingering Apparition (On +13 or higher Take Corpse Shield.),Infected Claws, Soul reaper.

Why are you using Pestilent Pustules? Isn't Epidemic better in terms of AoE?

 

However, really good guide. Keep up the good work.

[Drtain 74]

@Vorguz Pestilent Pustules, is infinitely better than Epidemic in terms of single target, while Epidemic is strong in AoE PP is also strong because if you do the DT +D&D SS spam you can pop easily 20 wounds in 1 swing which gives you 2 runes which allows you to spam SS more which = more wounds popping etc. Plus natural cleave from Bursting Sores does enough over all plus while yes AoE is important in some dungeons, bosses on tyranical at like +13 or higher can take upwards of 3 minutes even higher sometimes so single target is also something that needs to be taken into account.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Drtain

[Vorguz 33]

On 21.11.2016 at 11:09 PM, Drtain said:

@Vorguz Pestilent Pustules, is infinitely better than Epidemic in terms of single target, while Epidemic is strong in AoE PP is also strong because if you do the DT +D&D SS spam you can pop easily 20 wounds in 1 swing which gives you 2 runes which allows you to spam SS more which = more wounds popping etc. Plus natural cleave from Bursting Sores does enough over all plus while yes AoE is important in some dungeons, bosses on tyranical at like +13 or higher can take upwards of 3 minutes even higher sometimes so single target is also something that needs to be taken into account.

Sorry for late answer and thank you. It's all clear now. :)

[Drtain 74]

NP

 

[Burnt 0]

Do you think Terrorbound Nexus is still amazing with BoS for higher M+ @Drtain?
I have it in 880 and it doesn't sim that good on 4 targets. Could it be underrated in Simcraft or simply not that strong with BoS?

I'm currently running regular Dragonstorm for tyrannical and it's pretty awesome on boss mobs. For trash based affixes i sometimes switch to FP and FSC (and keep BoS anyway), which is... okay.
Do you have any other thoughts about the perfect M+ build for quick trash annihilation, maybe with the strongest AOE-trinket combo that would be worth farming? 

[Drtain 74]

@Burnt I don't think it's that great currently, aoe trinkets are pretty lack luster with how much aoe Dks can do without them.

[Burnt 0]

ok, thanks!