Blood DK stat % question

[eksor 2]

just wondering, whats a good soft cap to look for on the survivability stats?

1. Haste;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;
4. Critical Strike.

I had read someone saying Haste was good at 30%, but I haven't seen anything as far as a stat to reach for on Vers or Mastery, or even that those are indeed the correct stats, for some reason I keep feeling like Crit should be over Vers and mastery for Parry rating but I realize you get that off of str as well so I'm assuming that my take on it is very wrong as far as that goes, any advice?

[Sniz 60]

1 hour ago, eksor said:

just wondering, whats a good soft cap to look for on the survivability stats?

1. Haste;
2. Versatility;
3. Mastery;
4. Critical Strike.

I had read someone saying Haste was good at 30%, but I haven't seen anything as far as a stat to reach for on Vers or Mastery, or even that those are indeed the correct stats, for some reason I keep feeling like Crit should be over Vers and mastery for Parry rating but I realize you get that off of str as well so I'm assuming that my take on it is very wrong as far as that goes, any advice?

The days of stacking a couple of stats and calling it a day are over.  But you are already on the right track!

Your hunch that crit/parry is better than versa is (imo) correct.  Up to a certain point.

Myself and other DKs in this forum have developed a "thresehold" system instead, that takes into account math, combat feel and respect for artifact synergy.

Its pretty simple.  

Crit-> 20% parry

Haste 25%

Mastery +/-25%

This is the "base" or starting point.

After reaching these base threseholds, then you would want to start stacking haste and versatility.

Websites and sims love versatility and mathematically it is very strong, but by itself (or going haste heavy) ive read countless DK posts that say its either boring or they are getting crushed and dont know why.

Unfortunately, it makes it difficult to use stat weights and pawn.  Just try to do you best to maintain this thresehold and build your ilvl.

 

Id be happy to explain the rationales if you'd like.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Sniz

[eksor 2]

4 hours ago, Sniz said:

The days of stacking a couple of stats and calling it a day are over.  But you are already on the right track!

Your hunch that crit/parry is better than versa is (imo) correct.  Up to a certain point.

Myself and other DKs in this forum have developed a "thresehold" system instead, that takes into account math, combat feel and respect for artifact synergy.

Its pretty simple.  

Crit-> 20% parry

Haste 25%

Mastery +/-25%

This is the "base" or starting point.

After reaching these base threseholds, then you would want to start stacking haste and versatility.

Websites and sims love versatility and mathematically it is very strong, but by itself (or going haste heavy) ive read countless DK posts that say its either boring or they are getting crushed and dont know why.

Unfortunately, it makes it difficult to use stat weights and pawn.  Just try to do you best to maintain this thresehold and build your ilvl.

 

Id be happy to explain the rationales if you'd like.

ah yeah that what I was looking for, a good starting off point to know I'm going in the right direction, thank you very much!

[demonardvark 556]

4 hours ago, Sniz said:

"threshold" system.

Its pretty simple.  

Crit-> 20% parry

Haste 25%

Mastery +/-25%

This is the "base" or starting point.

After reaching these base threseholds, then you would want to start stacking haste and versatility.

@Shells may consider putting into blood dk guide? sniz outlined this perfectly

[eksor 2]

Just now, demonardvark said:

@Shells may consider putting into blood dk guide? sniz outlined this perfectly

Agreed, I looked off and on through the posts as far as I cared to look before I caved and made an account to ask fopr what I called a "soft cap" in a lack of a better thought out way to phrase it, I was afraid I was stacking things wrong, even with knowing what I needed, a sticky with the thresh hold would be very convenient, I feel bad posting just to ask that one question that was answered really well and quickly, makes me feel like I spammed for a simple bit of research, at the same time though, it confirmed a lot for me

[Shells 64]

Never feel bad about asking a question, its the only way to learn and you put yourself ahead of the scrubs in the game who dont know stuff yet wont ask a question for fear of looking bad. 

I ask questions all the time and learn new stuff along the way.

[demonardvark 556]

2 hours ago, eksor said:

Agreed, I looked off and on through the posts as far as I cared to look before I caved and made an account to ask fopr what I called a "soft cap" in a lack of a better thought out way to phrase it, I was afraid I was stacking things wrong, even with knowing what I needed, a sticky with the thresh hold would be very convenient, I feel bad posting just to ask that one question that was answered really well and quickly, makes me feel like I spammed for a simple bit of research, at the same time though, it confirmed a lot for me

 

2 hours ago, Shells said:

Never feel bad about asking a question, its the only way to learn and you put yourself ahead of the scrubs in the game who dont know stuff yet wont ask a question for fear of looking bad. 

I ask questions all the time and learn new stuff along the way.

Shells hit it 100% eksor, never be afraid to ask a question, it's why we are here. Without questions there is no purpose for this forum :D While the hard guides aim at the hardcore mythic raiders, the dk forums goal is to be accessable to everyone all players, so to you and anyone reading this, never be afraid to ask :D

[Sniz 60]

4 hours ago, eksor said:

ah yeah that what I was looking for, a good starting off point to know I'm going in the right direction, thank you very much!

You're welcome!

Let us know what you think after you've had a chance to do a couple runs.

In my experience, when I spec'd this way, my DK was comfortable. It didn't feel hectic or feel like I was always scrambling for runes.  But more importantly, I could actually notice the artifact weapon kicking in as I progressed through the tree.

Im at the point of stacking haste and versatility now and things are getting really interesting.

[eksor 2]

well this is all relieving news haha, I'm use to pitch fork things where people get extremely upset over the same questions and shame people out of ever posting again, thanks for the kind words and answers all

[Sniz 60]

I would like to add, and let me know if you all disagree, but ive given this some thought and perhaps once you reach these thresholds and are starting to stack haste and verse, the benefit from mastery diminishes.

im envisioning the circumstance that you've been diligent with mastery, keeping it around 25%, have started to build your haste/verse then you get say a haste versatility piece that would replace a piece with mastery on it, which would drop your mastery to say 22%. 

 

Thoughts?

[Aegis 27]

2 hours ago, Sniz said:

I would like to add, and let me know if you all disagree, but ive given this some thought and perhaps once you reach these thresholds and are starting to stack haste and verse, the benefit from mastery diminishes.

im envisioning the circumstance that you've been diligent with mastery, keeping it around 25%, have started to build your haste/verse then you get say a haste versatility piece that would replace a piece with mastery on it, which would drop your mastery to say 22%. 

 

Thoughts?

Actually, looking back at my logs, i see that absorbs accounted for roughly 50% of my healing on average across all fights. now, since i only used tombstone on one boss (cenarius), and only for spear and double dragons, that shouldn't account for as much absorption. Thus, the only conclusion i'm left with is that mastery over the course of the fight IS not a bad stat - we shouldn't be stacking it yet, but it may not be as bad as it seems on face value.

Logs in question: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yNm2dpTaBcgbYP96#type=healing&options=6&boss=-2&wipes=2

I would suspect that although versa seems like a good option (given the percentage-based nature of our heals), when we get into higher gear levels, mastery may win out in the end - but this is just a feeling - i don't have hard math to back it up.

For comparison, would be nice to look at some other DK tank logs.

[Shells 64]

@Aegis

Here you go , heroic logs. 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3NghV2Qar6m9Jp8X/#fight=22

Not my most amazing night but not bad seeing as I havent seen most of the fights on heroic as tank. (we rotate tanks in and out)

 

[Shells 64]

If anyone spots anything wrong in my rotation in the logs, do please let me know, some of the fights got a bit chaotic towards the end so rotations probably started to slip but i always welcome feedback, best way to grow.

[Aegis 27]

10 minutes ago, Shells said:

If anyone spots anything wrong in my rotation in the logs, do please let me know, some of the fights got a bit chaotic towards the end so rotations probably started to slip but i always welcome feedback, best way to grow.

I'm comparing Ursoc, simply because it's a tank-dependent fight. If you had xavius, I would have looked at that, but oh well.

You didn't use IBF at all, and your ossuary buff was up about 78%. Ideally on ursoc, since you're not tanking constantly, you should have a VERY high uptime for ossuary, as it reduces the cost of deathstrike (which is both excellent mitigation, as well as your hardest hitting skill). For comparison, for ursoc, i had just under 99% uptime for ossuary (i know this isn't possible on some fights - primarily those with dots like nythendra, cenarius, and xavius - those dots eat your stacks like it's candy).

You also forgot to use your second combat pot - normally lined up with either your second cast of DRW, or (and this is better) lining up both DRW and pot with timewarp.

I suspect your priority for death strike is abit lower than mine - which might explain the difference in tank damage (beyond the obvious ilevel difference)

[Shells 64]

Good points alright. 

I was guilty of saving IBF for a oh crap moment and thus didn't use it, which is a bad move as I had some oh crap moments. Doh! I was amazed we one shotted him as before this it would take a run or two but we had a good synergy between the tanks on that fight last night.

I find the ossuary buff hard to keep track of, I have a WA to track BS stacks but need to tinker with it to move it from showing total stacks to something that only pops up when I dont have enough stacks to activate ossuary.  Might get rid of the BS counter and put in an absence of Ossuary WA instead. 

I will check the DS thing, I wonder if its because I was capping BS but if my ossuary uptime was only 78% then that wasnt the reason.  You got in a lot more DS than I did but your fight went on 30 seconds longer so that might account for part of that. I may still have missed a cast or two alright per min.

 

All good stuff, thanks for taking the time to review the logs and give me feedback, I really appreciate it.