wow Watcher on Exploits, Related Bans and DT's Kill

[Starym 3,800]

WoW's Game Director explains some of the reasoining behind why Exorsus, From Scratch and Limit got banned while Danish Terrace did not.

 

So another Helya Mythic kill showed up today and with it came the kill video. Some thought the strategy Danish Terrace used on their (post ban) World third kill was also an exploit, so From Scratch started a dialogue with now Game Director and former Lead Encounter designer Ion "Watcher" Hazzikostas.

Another illustration of "it's hard to find limit between clever use and exploit" @WatcherDev @danishterrace https://t.co/5IS3egSEit

— From Scratch (@FromScratchWoW) November 27, 2016

The debate was on the specifics of why Exorsus, From Scratch and Limit's strategy was a bannable exploit while Danish Terraces wasn't and here's what Watcher had to say (put together from several tweets):

@WatcherDev

She's breathing, damaging tanks with it, spawning adds. Similar to putting p3 Cho'gall on the throne in BoT. Obviously not the strat the encounter's designer intended, but no part of that is a "bug."

Yeah. Target's death stopping one cast is consistent with many other abilities out there; it's how WoW works. Target's death causing the boss to never cast again is a clear bug that removes a mechanic entirely. It's the difference between Archimonde crystals and LK Saronite Bombs, basically.

Never one to let sleeping dogs lie, I poked Watcher about the LK kill, as that one was very much about intent (at least in the eyes of the community), aka whether Ensidia did or did not know it was the use of Saronite Bombs that was rebuilding the platform:

@WatcherDev @FromScratchWoW Speaking of LK/Ensidia, basically you don't consider "intent" as a factor in deciding bans or is it case by case

— Starym (@StarymGaming) November 27, 2016

To which Watcher replied, also resolving the issue of Unity's bugged Odyn World 4th kill, where the boss literally did not use any of his abilities:

@WatcherDev

Case by case; intent can be hard to gauge, but there are clues. It's hard to read intent into a fluke free kill (e.g. M-Odyn). But when a group is repeatedly performing an action that causes the fight to bug out, and building a strat around that bug...

It's good to see dialogue going on between the banned guilds and developers, especially since Blizzard's decision making on these issues has been rather fuzzy in the past, with a fair amount of exploits going unpunished. So, hopefully, interactions like these will make those incidents fewer and farther between.

[Nzall 0]

I'm not quite aware as to how DT's kill involved tactics that might be called an exploit. From what I can tell, they didn't really break anything from the encounter: all spells were still handled in some way.

Note: I've watched it on a VERY low bandwidth connection, so most of it was pixels. I'm not quite sure what they did differently.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Nzall

[Starym 3,800]

39 minutes ago, Nzall said:

I'm not quite aware as to how DT's kill involved tactics that might be called an exploit. From what I can tell, they didn't really break anything from the encounter: all spells were still handled in some way.

Note: I've watched it on a VERY low bandwidth connection, so most of it was pixels. I'm not quite sure what they did differently.

They placed the adds in a specific location where they basically spawned on top of eachother and weren't running around, so it was easier to cleave and dps didn't have to move. The exploit suggestions came because adds kinda got stuck there due to some invisible walls etc. At least that's as far as I've figured it out.

[Valks 2,375]

22 hours ago, Starym said:

They placed the adds in a specific location where they basically spawned on top of eachother and weren't running around, so it was easier to cleave and dps didn't have to move. The exploit suggestions came because adds kinda got stuck there due to some invisible walls etc. At least that's as far as I've figured it out.

Isn't this just that whole intent argument again? Gosh, this is all so complicated :(