Sub Rogue help

[godsilla94 5]

Hello Rogue community

 

I am a former (and potentially again in 7.1.5) Rogue main and I am basically the 'class coach' of our guild, meaning I try and help members with improving their performance. A guildie that is maining Sub has been having mediocre-bad results in most of our fights despite having pretty decent gear (at least as far as I know :D). Since Legion sub is completely different than WoD sub I currently lack the knowledge to properly analyze his mistakes/areas of improvement.

 

I would love to hear your tips and recommendations on how he can improve his performance, since we need every bit of DPS as we just started progressing in Mythic.

 

As gear and talents seem to be okay, my main ideas of his weaknesses would be the following:

- Cooldown Management

- Weak Pull Burst (~600k Peak on Guarm with BL)

-Potential Rotational Errors

 

Important Links:

Character:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/thrall/Syrago/simple

(Character is unfortuantely Outlaw right now, but his Sub Weapons are ilvl 910 and are nearly maxed out in terms of artifact power)

 

Logs: He is Syrago, the Sub Rogue

EN Myth:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r4dFaCkKvYJ69mxR#type=damage-done (this was our first time attempting Mythic EN, so most ppl did not know the fights very well)

ToV HC:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/abN6XqnyYxWPVrTv#fight=2&type=damage-done

 

I'd appreciate any form of advice that you could give :)

 

Thanks in advance

Godsilla94

 

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by godsilla94

[Carrn 284]

12 hours ago, godsilla94 said:

Hello Rogue community

 

I am a former (and potentially again in 7.1.5) Rogue main and I am basically the 'class coach' of our guild, meaning I try and help members with improving their performance. A guildie that is maining Sub has been having mediocre-bad results in most of our fights despite having pretty decent gear (at least as far as I know :D). Since Legion sub is completely different than WoD sub I currently lack the knowledge to properly analyze his mistakes/areas of improvement.

 

I would love to hear your tips and recommendations on how he can improve his performance, since we need every bit of DPS as we just started progressing in Mythic.

 

As gear and talents seem to be okay, my main ideas of his weaknesses would be the following:

- Cooldown Management

- Weak Pull Burst (~600k Peak on Guarm with BL)

-Potential Rotational Errors

 

Important Links:

Character:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/thrall/Syrago/simple

(Character is unfortuantely Outlaw right now, but his Sub Weapons are ilvl 910 and are nearly maxed out in terms of artifact power)

 

Logs: He is Syrago, the Sub Rogue

EN Myth:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r4dFaCkKvYJ69mxR#type=damage-done (this was our first time attempting Mythic EN, so most ppl did not know the fights very well)

ToV HC:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/abN6XqnyYxWPVrTv#fight=2&type=damage-done

 

I'd appreciate any form of advice that you could give :)

 

Thanks in advance

Godsilla94

 

 

I'll look into this more tomorrow, but it would be infinitely more helpful if he were to talk to me himself. I can tell you whatever, but unless you actually understand it properly you won't be able to explain it to him in a way that he will find useful, nor will you be able to answer the questions he might have

[godsilla94 5]

Thanks for the quick response! I might have undersold myself a bit, I have mained Rogue throughout BC and Cata on and off and actively in WoD including Mythic raiding. I have also read/watched quite a bit of stuff about Legion Rogue specs as I'm heavily considering either completely rerolling or at least actively playing a Rogue in addition to my DK.

 

I can definitely tell him to check out the forum himself, but he is a bit special when it comes to things like these. He tends to just play as he thinks it is correct and does not much care about logs, guides or videos. However, he does usually take advice from friends and is willing to try new things if told to. He also doesn't speak that much English, so explaining some things might be a challenge.

 

For the usual clearruns we would not mind him playing his way, but as we are now actively trying to progress in Mythic, we need every bit of damage that we can get. Currently he would be one of the first players to be cut due to lower DPS and we want to give him an opportunity to improve before we have to bench him, especially since he is an IRL mate.

 

Either way, thank you already for checking it out, I appreciate it.

 

Godsilla94

[MrEdren 114]

I don't mean this to sound snarky at all, and it's not exactly hard to translate what ability is what, but are there specific things you want to focus on?  My German is pretty shaky.

[godsilla94 5]

Sorry, I expressed myself poorly. What I meants was that it might be challenging for Carrn to explain these things to the player himself. I can easily translate whatever advice you guys give me since I am bilingual. Sorry for the misunderstanding^^

[MrEdren 114]

1 hour ago, godsilla94 said:

Sorry, I expressed myself poorly. What I meants was that it might be challenging for Carrn to explain these things to the player himself. I can easily translate whatever advice you guys give me since I am bilingual. Sorry for the misunderstanding^^

I was referring more to the fact that your logs are in German, but no big deal.

[godsilla94 5]

Oh, wow, I did not even notice that :D There should be a translate option, though I don't know how well it works

[Carrn 284]

On 12/19/2016 at 1:42 AM, godsilla94 said:

Thanks for the quick response! I might have undersold myself a bit, I have mained Rogue throughout BC and Cata on and off and actively in WoD including Mythic raiding. I have also read/watched quite a bit of stuff about Legion Rogue specs as I'm heavily considering either completely rerolling or at least actively playing a Rogue in addition to my DK.

 

I can definitely tell him to check out the forum himself, but he is a bit special when it comes to things like these. He tends to just play as he thinks it is correct and does not much care about logs, guides or videos. However, he does usually take advice from friends and is willing to try new things if told to. He also doesn't speak that much English, so explaining some things might be a challenge.

 

For the usual clearruns we would not mind him playing his way, but as we are now actively trying to progress in Mythic, we need every bit of damage that we can get. Currently he would be one of the first players to be cut due to lower DPS and we want to give him an opportunity to improve before we have to bench him, especially since he is an IRL mate.

 

Either way, thank you already for checking it out, I appreciate it.

 

Godsilla94

Sorry it wasn't exactly "tomorrow" like I said, I didn't have a strong enough connection at the hotel I stayed at before my flights home. 

So, to delve into his logs. I'll be using exclusively the Guarm and Ursoc ones, since those are mostly single target and involve relatively small amounts of downtime.

1.  Nightblade uptime needs work. It's under 90% on both fights, which really isn't good. For comparison, the average Nightblade cast does over twice the damage of the average Evis cast. It's a huge source of damage and really should be as high as possible.
2. I don't see a FoK cast in the logs, despite having the legendary which buffs this ability
3. Only having 3 Shadowstrikes per Shadow Dance is crippling. It's expected when Shadows of Death needs refreshing, but it's very possible and necessary to have those 4 SS per SD. 
4. His gem socket should be Agi, not Mastery
5. The Apendages trinket from Ilgy is really bad. Like, really bad. Replacing it with a heroic Ursoc trinket gives nearly 18k more dps.

What relics does he have in his weapons? And which traits does he have / how many does he have?

[godsilla94 5]

Thanks for your response @Carrn, no worries about the delay, im glad you are having a look despite traveling :) I will definitely talk with him about the points you mentioned. Especially the Nightblade and Shadowstrike tips should improve his DPS substantially. He was talking about a lack of mastery a lot, is there an answer that you would recommend he should hit? Concerning the FoK tip, he received the Legendary after the logs in questions, so there wasn't much sense in it then. Here are the new logs from this week:https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JgMbHa3tZ8jnDVcY#translate=true&type=summary&boss=-2. It felt like he improved slightly, especially on cleave fights.

 

Thanks in advance

Godsilla94

 

 

 

[Carrn 284]

4 hours ago, godsilla94 said:

Thanks for your response @Carrn, no worries about the delay, im glad you are having a look despite traveling :) I will definitely talk with him about the points you mentioned. Especially the Nightblade and Shadowstrike tips should improve his DPS substantially. He was talking about a lack of mastery a lot, is there an answer that you would recommend he should hit? Concerning the FoK tip, he received the Legendary after the logs in questions, so there wasn't much sense in it then. Here are the new logs from this week:https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JgMbHa3tZ8jnDVcY#translate=true&type=summary&boss=-2. It felt like he improved slightly, especially on cleave fights.

 

Thanks in advance

Godsilla94

 

 

 

Looking at his armory, he doesn't seem to lack Mastery at all. If anything his Crit is a little low and he's missing a LOT of Vers.

Stat weights will change come 7.1.5 for Vers to not be as good, but for the time being it's a very strong stat for Sub.

Also, Mark of the Satyr is the better neck enchant, not sure if I missed it before or if he changed.

Umm his logs are still not great - he seems to understand how to use Sstorm properly with the legendary so I won't pick that apart. Big things are still what I mentioned before - on fights with adds like Ursoc, he should have Nightblade running both on the add and on the boss, and if possible make sure the Finality-buffed one is on the boss 

[godsilla94 5]

Hello again

 

Since we've had a few Raid evenings and your recommendations to improve from, I wanted to give you guys some new logs that you could check out. To me it seems that his DPS has increased, but I do still think it is below what he should be able to do. I appreciate any tips you guys can give!

 

Updated Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/thrall/Syrago/simple

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6FmJ3XYkafQ7wxRv#type=damage-done&translate=true&boss=1877&wipes=1  ( A long night of Cenarius Mythic Progression :P)

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/M3dCghZYfAtaqbpD#fight=11&translate=true Our well-earned Il'Gynoth Mythic Kill (and Wipes :D)

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TVbjAMtr7xzLG2dp#translate=true ToV HC (forgot logging for Odyn) + 4/7 EN Mythic

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JgMbHa3tZ8jnDVcY#fight=2&type=damage-done Another 4/7 Mythic EN

 

I hope these logs are sufficient and I appreciate any feedback!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Godsilla94

[Carrn 284]

On 1/3/2017 at 11:47 PM, godsilla94 said:

Hello again

 

Since we've had a few Raid evenings and your recommendations to improve from, I wanted to give you guys some new logs that you could check out. To me it seems that his DPS has increased, but I do still think it is below what he should be able to do. I appreciate any tips you guys can give!

 

Updated Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/thrall/Syrago/simple

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6FmJ3XYkafQ7wxRv#type=damage-done&translate=true&boss=1877&wipes=1  ( A long night of Cenarius Mythic Progression :P)

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/M3dCghZYfAtaqbpD#fight=11&translate=true Our well-earned Il'Gynoth Mythic Kill (and Wipes :D)

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TVbjAMtr7xzLG2dp#translate=true ToV HC (forgot logging for Odyn) + 4/7 EN Mythic

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JgMbHa3tZ8jnDVcY#fight=2&type=damage-done Another 4/7 Mythic EN

 

I hope these logs are sufficient and I appreciate any feedback!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Godsilla94

Being honest, it's the same things, 80-ish percent Nightblade uptime isn't good, neither is dropping Symbols of Death.

Look at the difference on a fight like Nythendra compared to Guarm. Guarm has him at 18th percentile for his ilevel, with an 80% uptime on Nightblade. On Nyth, he has just over 90, and is sitting at 60th percentile.

Obviously there are other factors at play, but there isn't a whole lot of point at nitpicking the fine details about Energy management or anything like that when he's losing a TON of uptime on his 2 maintenance things (Nightblade and Symbols of Death).

Once Nightblade regularly hits about 97% and SoD never drops - and he's regularly getting 4SS per SD except when he has to refresh SoD - then the smaller details start to matter a lot more.

Edit: Oh I should mention relics as well. He really needs to do some research about which traits to pick up relics for