How to ask for help with your Mistweaver Monk

[Krazyito 521]

This thread is meant to have a more consolidated place for people to ask a question and be able to find other people's questions to quickly find an answer.  If you have a problem with this thread or feel something is wrong please post below and help make it better.

 

To edit wieghts open up your AMR profile and click the 'Edit weights" button.

 

[CURRENTLY UPDATED FOR 5.4 (SIEGE OF ORGRIMMAR) RAIDS]

 

As a note these weights will work for the most part, but please note that you should be actively trying to figure out how to squeeze more crit out of your gear.  Which will only come from tweaking some of these weights up and down based on your gear without scarfing too much int. Some choices may be a preference. All up to you..  Look at the changes Mr. Robot tells you before you do them.  Ask yourself, "Do I want more crit in some of these sockets? (mainly blue)"  Just decide for yourself if you want it to change.
 

General Heavy-Crit Build Stat Weights for 500+ ilvl, Use these weight in Mr. Robot.  These weights (and some variations of them) work fairly well for most people who want a heavy crit, low spirit build.

 

[Alternate, similar build as below, but just a tad bit more spirit with no cap]

 

 

 

 

 

If you prefer something specific, please keep reading or comment below if you do not see it in this original post.

 

First off I will put a few general guidelines for what you should be doing before asking for help.

• Get rid of your mastery gear.

If you are running with over 1500 mastery (or even 1000 in some cases) on your gear you need to first start replacing those pieces. Having mastery gear on severely gimps your throughput and your mana.  When it comes to deciding if a piece of gear is an upgrade first ask yourself   "Am I going from an LFR to a Heroic piece?" (about a 30~ ilvl upgrade)  If that is the case then the intellect alone would help.  When comparing the stats make sure you keep the 2crit >1int idea in your head.  Look at the int + spellpower you may gain vs the crit you would lose.

 

[OLD 5.2 VALOR, 522 ILVL INFO, still valid in some cases]

Common items I see that are easily fixed are, Neckpiece (There is a valor spirit/crit one that is more valuable than the horridon neck) and Rings (there are 2 viable rings from valor vendors, one with spirit/haste, the other with haste/crit.   Pick one)  The only exception to the rings is Heroic Thunderforged Iron Qon's (Ro'shaks Remembrance) because it is the only other viable ring in the instance.  If its not Heroic-Thunderforged and if your caster DPS (or even other healers) need it, then stick with the valor one.

 

• Do you run 10 or 25 man?

Being in a 10 or 25 man guild has a huge impact on your mana.  Namely how many mana CD's are available to you such as Mana Tide, Hymn of Hopes or even Innervates.  Usually 25 man monks tend to go for a lowest possible spirit build as the mana CD's they have are pretty abundant.  10 man monks usually go for about 8-10k spirit more or less depending on their group composition.  I'm always an advocate of lowest possible spirit builds because Its a very viable way of healing.  I haven't done 10 man progression on my monk, but I'm pretty sure I'm so use to my mana management that I can do well with it even with lower mana CD's.  If you run 25 man, I absolutely urge you to do the low spirit build.  If you do 10 man, I ask that you at least try it and see how it goes.  You can just go up from there.  [NOTE: NEVER GO BELOW 5100 SPIRIT]

 

In 5.4 they changed the mana tea mechanics so that you can drink 1 stack every .5 seconds.  This alone makes mana tea glyph worthless on any fight where you do not constantly move.  Removing this glyph in 5.4 will help solve A LOT of "mana problems".

 

• Do you have the Legendary Meta Gem? (LMG)

The LMG is a huge mana saver.  It allows you to game about 8% mana each proc when you start to dip low.  In even higher gear levels you can use it for free Spinning Crane Kicks or Soothing Mist Channels.  If you don't have this meta you should be fistweaving LESS than one with the meta.  Fistweaving will run you much more oom without this.

 

• Do you want to gem more Intellect or crit?

Some monks want to prefer gemming more pure int or more pure crit.  I prefer gemming pure crit because of the throughput and the extra mana tea stacks, but I have seen some prefer intellect for their own reasons. To set the above weights to gem more intellect, simply lower the cap of crit to .49 (less than half of intellects weight)

 

• Do you want a specific amount of spirit that you feel comfortable with?

There are also some monks who want to have a set amount of spirit that they feel comfortable with.  To do this, take the above weights, set the spirit weight above crit and then set the "static spirit" value to the amount that you want.  If you have the legendary meta gem I would strongly recommend going for the low spirit build, regardless of raid size.  If you still don't like it,  there is nothing stopping you from setting this spirit cap.

 

• What haste breakpoint do you want?

There are 3 major haste breakpoint right now that you should be aiming for.  Which one you go for depends on your gear level.  If it only takes you about 2-4 pure haste gems to reach it, then it is probably worth going for.  The three haste breakpoint you should be looking for (OUTSIDE OF SERPENT STANCE) are 3145, 6141, and 9158. . Haste is fine to gem in small amounts to reach breakpoints or even reach one breakpoint higher than you usually can, but putting your crit levels below 30% unbuffed should not be happening.  Ideally, you just want to be stacking a ton of crit (40%+) with the 6k or 9k breakpoint (with some higher gear levels you can probably keep this crit level with the 12k breakpoint).

 

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask below.  I will try to update this thread accordingly.

[Taipo 1]

I have read the posts and build recommendation until my eyes bleed. I must profess that i do not understand about a "low spirit build" as I constantly have mana problems.

 

But my biggest problem is that I just can't seem to heal enough -- no matter where I am. 10-man, 25-man, even just a plain old 5-man dungeon. I have terrible trouble keeping everybody up. I try to let Eminence and Renewing Mist work, but nothing seems to help.

 

I need serious advice, please. I love being a Mistweaver but am very tired of being out-healed by every other Class. Help. Please.

 

Taipo

[Krazyito 521]

Please link your armory.

[Taipo 1]

I undid all of my Mastery reforges this morning, but Mr Robot hasn't recognized them yet. Also, I know that I should now how to link my Armory, but I do not. Mea culpa. If you could tell me how to go about that, I'll get right on it.

[Taipo 1]

I also undid my Crit reforges. My Haste is still above the minimum. I haven't been in any dungeons since the changes, but I seem to notice an increase in Eminence healing when I just do routine stuff.

[Krazyito 521]

Just tell me what your character name and realm is.

[Taipo 1]

Character name: Taipo

Realm: Llane

 

Details: MIstweaver Monk, Item level: 496

              Usual healing in 10-man raid: 15-19,000 (which is the whole problem)

 

Anecdote: I was in a flex-raid yesterday. It turned out to be 17-man in Mogu Shan Vault. On the first Boss, we wiped. When I came back, I was voted out for low dps -- even t hough I was second in healing with 36K-plus. They begged me to come back, but I refused,, citing the fact that I do not work with fools. (The top healer was a Monk, by the way.)

[Krazyito 521]

Lololololol fist weaving monks mistaken as dps. Happened to me before. When I get a chance I'll look you up.

[Krazyito 521]

Also up can't flex MSV

[Krazyito 521]

ok, sorry for not helping you sooner.  I just started school again and I've been trying to catch up. 

 

Your armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Llane/Taipo/advanced

 

Mr. Roboty crit build: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/217290c1-8694-4f32-a54b-f0187cbaa221

 

 

Let me know if you have any more questions.

[Taipo 1]

So I should go for Crit to raise my dps and - by extension - my Eminence.... Interesting. I'll get on it and let you know how it goes.

I have to admit that I feel a little naked giving up Spirit tho.

 

Thank you for the help so far/

[Krazyito 521]

No, cirt is not just for DPS.  its for healing.  Your heal will crit more often, and since you have MANY helas that tick  or go off MANY times, you're more likely to crit than any other class

 

 

I really don't understand where the correlation of crit and fistweaveing come from, because I'm pretty sure I have never said that.

 

Fistweaving gets more powerful form crit yes but crit affects all healing.

[Absinth92 1]

Taipo, what you don't seem to understand is that Fistweaving is really not optimal in raids. Yeah, it can be really useful in some situations but you generally don't want to stick to Fistweaving unless you're well geared and have the legendary meta. 

 

The crit build is for healing. No build exists that will help you Fistweave successfully at your level of gear. Try out plain Mistweaving until you're fully geared. It's honestly a lot more fun.

[Taipo 1]

Since I regemmed, re-enchanted and reforged, things are different. My spirit went down by about 2,000  and my Crit went up by about 1,700. I do notice an increase in the healing Crits, especially with Renewing Mist and Zen Sphere churning. Now, as to straight mistweaving... If I understand that correctly, that's just using the basic mana heals (with Renewing and the Sphere), some Uplift (when it's in vogue), Spining Crane in short bursts when necessary, a little Crackling Jade Lightning and hoping to drink enough mana tea to stay positive. And not worrying about Eminence too much at all. I have tried that, with extremely disappointing results -- in a 25-man, I was 4th with an average of 22k (but that was better than the 19K I -was- doing) and in a 10-man Normal I was 2nd of 2 with only 15K. The Shammy did 35K. Embarassing.

 

Am I just banging my head against a wall here? Keep the advice coming, please! Any rotational stuff would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks for everything so far.

[DJBRUCE 0]

Help please how can I best get my monk kitted out when none of my guild raid? Plus what are the best set of rotation on spells as some tanks tell me not to melee but stay out of the fight and heal from a distance but most people playing as monk mw say u need to be in melee rang for muscle memory and mana gene? Any assistance greatly appreciated And Krazyito ur a Legend

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Cuddlybruce/advanced

Edited September 15, 2013 by DJBRUCE

[Absinth92 1]

Taipo:

Don't use Zen Sphere. For fights where people are stacked a lot, use Chi Burst. In 25m Chi Burst generally is best. Chi Wave for fights when people are spread out more and use it on cooldown.

Use Renewing Mists on cooldown. You should always RM up on at least 6 people. Pop Thunder Focus Tea at the right time to renew their countdowns and allow yourself to keep it up on more people. Uplift when necessary. Uplift and Renewing Mists should be your tops heals. 

Enveloping Mist when it's necessary. Surging is the same. If you have the legendary meta, you can spam Surging when it procs. 

Use Expel Harm on cooldown for Chi. (you can glyph it now to use is on someone else if you want)

Spinning Crane Kick is good for when people are all stacked up.

Xuen and Chi Torpedo are both free heals and can do a lot of healing. Depends on the fight. You could try the new RJW if you want. 

 

If you mistweave correctly, you should be doing a LOT more heals than fistweaving. Do everything correctly and you can top charts against people equally as geared.  Make sure you hit one of the Haste Breakpoints too. you can find those on the icy veins site. generally, just go for whatever breakpoint your gear allows. don't try to gem/reforge to an even higher one.

[Krazyito 521]

Don't use Expel Harm Glyph, it is NOT a healing gain.  Its typically not worth it because of the healing reduction.

[Taipo 1]

Okay, I give up. I was voted out of 4 LFRs last night for low healing. I used only mistweaving and ran out of mana really fast. But I kept it up, doing just under 20K so I guess being cut loose was fair.

 

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is, well, you know the rest.... This just isn't working for me.

 

Thanks, everybody, for the excellent advice, patience and attempt at assistance.

[Absinth92 1]

Taipo, if you'd like I can run an LFR with you and see what the problem is

You're Alliance. Nevermind. You haven't even reached the first haste breakpoint. Reforge the mastery in your Basilisk ring to haste. To make sure you're reaching a breakpoint, you need to go into Tiger stance or whatever it's called and make sure the haste value is 3145 or 6141. You're almost at the 3145 so reforging that ring is all you have to do.

 

What EXACTLY are you doing during a boss fight. Like spell by spell, what are you doing? Because at 499 ilvl you should be doing 40k+ HPS (not that HPS is the best measurement of healing but w/e).  And I feel like I should ask this... are you keeping your Jade Serpent Statue up? Like relatively near the raid?

 

And Krazyito, it does minimal healing but with 5k spirit it's basically a free heal. A crit from it would be pretty decent, especially if you have the amplification trinkets and still cost almost no mana. A lot of monks I know have found some use for it.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Absinth92

[Shanalie 0]

My monk (shanalie/blackhand eu) is used to heal 10m soo and just works fine with 10k spirit/28% crit/6k hastecap. I was healing together with pally+dudu.

I can just tell any1 these stats work perfectly fine without the legendary meta! I will just lose mana if i have to instantheal tanks/various players a lot. If i can get the meta (starting to work on the secrets next week. Rerolling sucks with the legendary quest line), I will drop to ~7.5k spirit and tell you the outcome ;)

Right now im just worried because i got a new chest token and my 2p t15 is gone </3 .. but chest ilvl upgrade from 502 to 561 is just too strong. I did also remove the 522 set gloves for TF crit gloves.

Do you suggest me to go for jikun hc to get new t15 legs and keep 2p t15 with 522 gloves or is the stat gain from higher ilvl in soo strong enough to drop 2p t15?

[Taipo 1]

In a Boss fight, I usually did this: Right off the bat, I set the Statue. If it's not close enough, I reset it to get coverage. I put Renewing Mist on the tank and somebody else, making sure it gets to 6 people if at all possible. To generate Chi, I usually hit Crackling Jade Lightning if I can 't get close enough to the Boss for the manual stuff. If one of the folks I have covered with Renewing starts taking noticeable damage, I use Uplift (usually twice, if possible, to generate mana tea.) Whenever I have mana tea, I drink it! Rinse and repeat. If somebody takes more damage than Uplift can handle, or doesn't have Renewing on them, I use Soothing Mist, plus Surging or Enveloping (if it's hot) to get them back up. Doing this kills my mana, naturally. When everybody is taking heavy damage, I pop Chi Burst. 

I use my trinkets to boost Spirit whenever they are cool, but it doesn't help as much as I would like. I don't have a way to see HPS, but on Recount Healing Done, if I break 20K it's a big event. In a LFR, I'm usually struggling to be 5/6 healers, far behind the Druids, Paladins, Shaman and Priests who usually show 65-90K. That's a lot of why I get voted out for low healing.

 

In any case, you asked, so that's what I usually did. If you have any (and I mean ANY) advice, suggestions, opinions, criticism, etc. I want to hear it. I really hate putting this guy on the shelf.

[Krazyito 521]

My monk (shanalie/blackhand eu) is used to heal 10m soo and just works fine with 10k spirit/28% crit/6k hastecap. I was healing together with pally+dudu.

I can just tell any1 these stats work perfectly fine without the legendary meta! I will just lose mana if i have to instantheal tanks/various players a lot. If i can get the meta (starting to work on the secrets next week. Rerolling sucks with the legendary quest line), I will drop to ~7.5k spirit and tell you the outcome

Right now im just worried because i got a new chest token and my 2p t15 is gone </3 .. but chest ilvl upgrade from 502 to 561 is just too strong. I did also remove the 522 set gloves for TF crit gloves.

Do you suggest me to go for jikun hc to get new t15 legs and keep 2p t15 with 522 gloves or is the stat gain from higher ilvl in soo strong enough to drop 2p t15?

keep the 2pc (try to get heroic legs and chest if its possible, until you get the 4pc from t16.  It's probably still viable break the 2pc to exchange for more intellect, but only do it if you have like 2-3 pieces sitting in your bag because of it.

 

 

In a Boss fight, I usually did this: Right off the bat, I set the Statue. If it's not close enough, I reset it to get coverage. I put Renewing Mist on the tank and somebody else, making sure it gets to 6 people if at all possible. To generate Chi, I usually hit Crackling Jade Lightning if I can 't get close enough to the Boss for the manual stuff. If one of the folks I have covered with Renewing starts taking noticeable damage, I use Uplift (usually twice, if possible, to generate mana tea.) Whenever I have mana tea, I drink it! Rinse and repeat. If somebody takes more damage than Uplift can handle, or doesn't have Renewing on them, I use Soothing Mist, plus Surging or Enveloping (if it's hot) to get them back up. Doing this kills my mana, naturally. When everybody is taking heavy damage, I pop Chi Burst. 

I use my trinkets to boost Spirit whenever they are cool, but it doesn't help as much as I would like. I don't have a way to see HPS, but on Recount Healing Done, if I break 20K it's a big event. In a LFR, I'm usually struggling to be 5/6 healers, far behind the Druids, Paladins, Shaman and Priests who usually show 65-90K. That's a lot of why I get voted out for low healing.

 

In any case, you asked, so that's what I usually did. If you have any (and I mean ANY) advice, suggestions, opinions, criticism, etc. I want to hear it. I really hate putting this guy on the shelf.

 

Add me on live (assuming you're US and not EU) and I'll run LFR with you to see whats up.  Krazyito#1696

[Shanalie 0]

How would you btw describe the best playstyle?

 

I think its basiclly this:

 

- Cast ReM on CD

- Spread ReM as good as possible using Tea/Uplift

 

- Uplift when neccessary

- Soothing Mist as a Filler / Chibuilder when low dmg incoming

- Enveloping Mist / Surging Mist when neccessary,

 

- Build Chi using ReM, Soothing Mist as Filler, Expel Harm as Chi Builder

 

(When i finally got the leg. Meta -> During Proc Spam Chibuilders? )

[Krazyito 521]

SCK and surging mists during meta proc is also a good way to build chi. I keep recommending the surging mists glyph cause its pretty good for spot healing when random people are taking damage

[Shanalie 0]

True! ;) SCK is perfect to build Chi fast ;)

 

My main problems with my monk atm are:

 

- AoE Heal when my "smart" ReM decides to jump only to targets that are actually not taking any dmg :P

- Building Up enough ManaTea - Due to lack of Legendary Meta i guess ;)