Protection Warrior View On Nighthold

[KinderHell 3]

Hi,

I've just finished normal with my main 890ilvl (54 points) prot tank and also with my 876ilvl (36 points) druid tank.

My conclusion is the following:

The protection warrior is taking way to high damage from almost all abilities except auto-attacks which are low anyway.

Shield block doesn't work against any of the abilities in nighthold and doesn't help with any magical skills.

Basically our block even with 2 set items, having aprox 65% crit block chance is useless in Nighthold.

The fact that our main reduction ability except our 8k-ish armor is useless for all Nighthold bosses. Demo, LS, SW, SR are ok for stack abilities or strong abilities but they couldn't be frequent enough. The damage taken spikes are crazy...just crazy and I've kept IP 40-60% of the damage and decent 90% + bracket dps.

Paladin tank and warrior tank used to be very similar in damage taken ( normal damage taken ), now paladin is taking 100 millions and warrior is taking 200-400 million on same boss. This is because their damage is percent damage reduction and that works for magical also, but our shield block is irrelevant. Also paladins block spells now.

In regard to my 876ilvl druid, I've done Guldan solo tanking without any stress. I've done rest of bosses without a problem, only keeping 1-2 stack of ironfur up and using rest of my rage for the 30% reduction every 10 sec, and I won't even start with the amount of cds druids have. These runs showed me how warrior is 0 compared to paladin,druid and DK. 

I would place warrior on last place under DK, as Shield Block is an irreleant ability in this raid. You can check logs and compare raids from EN and Nighthold. It seems that to be so-so with a warrior tank you would have to maximize versatility and ignore every other stat :|, maybe then you will start reducing some damage from this raid.

 

I believe that even the first version of warrior tank from start of EN couldn't handle Nighthold as good as paladin,druid can now. They were just op at low level for being able to handle high mythic dungeons at low gear for stacking IP 2 million absorb, but they scaled bad compared to others and that IP would drop in 2 hits on Mythic EN content, making it so-so anywany.

 

Post below if any ideas pop to mind related to the above problem. Thanks ! 

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by KinderHell

[Shells 64]

Warrior is deemed a middle of the road tank, well ahead of the perception of where the DK sits. Interesting that you place yourself under the DK.  Druids are still OP, I agree. Pallys sit in an odd place, really strong dps and good abilities, higher skill cap than druids. Monks are also in a nice place too currently.

Would you have your logs for some review for the fights in question? Might help us to have a look and see if there was anything you could have done differently.  I doubt you have done anything incorrectly but always good to get another pair, or several pairs, of eyes on the case.

There likely will be some balancing going out with next weeks patch for mythic based on how people got on in normal and heroic mode this week.

[KinderHell 3]

I would like to give you some logs but warcraftlogs seems to be down for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't start this subject only to cry about how warriors are bad in Nighthold, but to show that the potential for mythic Nighthold content is going to be irrelevant to them. We had problems in EN also when we had to soak spear abilities which don't consider shield block ( Cenarius, Odyn ), even though we could use shield wall and demo. Our artifact ability is as useless as shield block for most important and not forgiving abilities in EN and in Nighthold.

For warrior to even compare to others, the melee hit of bosses will have to increase 200-400% so that other tanks could spike the way we do.

For example :

Usoc : Overwhelm and Rend do not care about shield block.

Cenarius : Spear ignores shield block.

Xavius : Darkness is magical and constant - shield block is useless.

Rest of EN magical abilities are doing high impact as we don't reduce anything of that magical damage.

 

Skorpyron - Arcanoslash magical - shield block useless.

Chronomatic - Chronometric particle - shield block useless.

Trilliax - Arcane slash - shield block useles.

SpellBlade - Annihilate - shield block useless even tho is physical.

Krosus - Searing Brand - shield block useless , Slam soak - shield block useless.

Botnist - Flare - shield block useless.

Augur - shield block useless, I believe even on auto-attacks.

Elisande - Ablation - shield block useless.

Guldan - Fel Scythe - shield block useless, hand of gul'dan - shield block useless.

 

I've mentioned the abilities that need constant stacks, soaks and swaps in EN and Nighthold.

Our strength is irrelevant as most of important abilities are magical, and those which are physical do not impact as shield block does not apply for them, nor the artifact skill.

Like I mentioned above, I'm not trying to cry about how warriors are bad now, but we can't mitigate anything properly.

We could tank Nighthold heroic, but I don't see a future for mythic Nighthold content if that makes any sense to you guys.

 

 

[Larssen 7]

I found myself keeping Shield Block up out of habit, and also using Ignore Pain on cooldown most of the time in Nighthold. I also used Spell Reflect frequently on every boss, as there was always magic damage flying around or underfoot. Our channeled artifact ability seems more awkward here than usual, except for helping to add some DPS on packs of adds and trash.

I did have to work a bit harder to survive, while my druid co-tank seemed almost bored in comparison. While I wouldn't say the warrior toolkit is weak compared to those of other tanking classes, I would agree that the bosses in Nighthold are designed in such a way as to make our abilities -- Shield Block in particular -- feel less powerful and useful than they ordinarily would be.

As KinderHell pointed out, this is not so much due to weakness on the part of the warrior class, but that so many boss and trash abilities either deal various forms of magical damage or physical damage that Shield Block doesn't help against. Granted, this was the case with several EN bosses as well, but they all had strong enough melee components to their damage output that one could really feel the difference between a block tank and a healing or avoidance tank. Nighthold seems more focused on magical attacks, which we have little passive mitigation against, so when our abilities are on cooldown, we take more of a beating.

I think we'll be okay in the long run, although we might have to change our game a bit. The larger health pool of Indomitable would seem to be a natural buffer against unblockable damage, but I found the Devastator build to be well suited for Nighthold. The smaller but frequent Ignore Pain casts felt better on quite a few of the fights, and were particularly good for soaking magic damage when Spell Reflect was not available. Bring some tomes, and experiment with different talents and gear to see what works best for each boss. And as always, everything will get easier as we learn the fights, and can better anticipate and react to incoming damage. On the first week of a new raid, everything tends to be a bit chaotic.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Larssen

[Wickedwar 0]

I agree with Kinderhell. When i was tanking Nighthold normal last night i found myself to be insanly spiky and that my IP shields to be gone in a seconds. The problem could be that it was the first time in NH and the mechanics were not done properly but still it felt like i was way weaker in comparison with the other druid tank.

Here are the logs from yesterday: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/p71nrzBfgM6wCJkc/#

If im doing anything wrong or we do things wrong as a group please tell me because this is pretty demotivating.

[Allseye 96]

Really interesting, i thought i'm doing something wrong because of the hard dmg-income in certain situations. I also recognized my spiky healthbar which was sometimes droping so freaking fast. Warriors has always been very sensitive against magical damage, so i'm "glad" that it isn't just me struggling to stay alive ;-).

Same as you guys, i was raiding with devestator, exactly of the same reason that was already mentioned: more frequent IP's. Think i eventually gonna use indom next time and try to ragepool for high IP when unblockable dmg is incoming. At my view, this ist the only way how we can handle high magical dmg. This leads us to a problem, when we're suffering under a debuff with damage over time.

So lets try to find a solution without hoping to get buffed from blizzard. It's true, our best ability named shieldblock seems to don't support us in nighthold as we're used to. This will getting interesting in our stat-choice as well. Perhaps it isn't a good choice to stack haste. If shieldblock is just lowering autohit-dmg, it won't be our goal to achiev a high uptime. Of course we're getting more rage because shorter CD's, but while our highest rage-generator is damage taken, there isn't any good reason for haste. Is it time to overthink our choices? Should we go back to start where we were stacking versatility and mastery? Is versatility really worth because we need so much points per percent? What are you thinking about, will this lead in another stat-prio discussion?

[KinderHell 3]

I don't even consider that I haven't done the mechanic correctly or my mitigation rotation on proper abilities.

I keep IP to around 40-60% of damage taken which is very high and my mitigation 15-28% block/stag which is also high.

I also pop active mitigation on certain abilities on each boss which require damage reduction or higher hp pool as prot to soak them.

Basically spam IP while doing damage rotation and keeping shield block up 80% +

 

I could handle Xavius and the add on me without a problem in EN as our block ability was effective there ( except stacking debuff) and at Eye boss on tentacles.

Fact is that I'm not an AFK auto-attack tank or lazy one, I try to top dps which increases my rage generation which increases my IP usage,  hence having 60% IP reduction on certain fights and almost 30% mitigation/stag. Good prot warriors know what I mean by this. 

 

Now I know what Sco meant by our nerf and how it affects us in Nighthold in a youtube clip.

If nothing will change till next week, most good warriors will swap on other tanks like druid or paladin to be able to handle mythic content in Nighthold. To be honest, I don't see how a warrior could survive mythic content :|, maybe with OP-pro healers which spam the hell out of him. Even the set bonus gives more block, more irrelevant stuff basically.

 

It feels bad, man.

[zmandude24 1]

This is why I'm glad I went dps. They assraped prot warriors in Nighthold with terrible IP scaling.

[Allseye 96]

3 hours ago, KinderHell said:

I don't even consider that I haven't done the mechanic correctly or my mitigation rotation on proper abilities.

I keep IP to around 40-60% of damage taken which is very high and my mitigation 15-28% block/stag which is also high.

I also pop active mitigation on certain abilities on each boss which require damage reduction or higher hp pool as prot to soak them.

Basically spam IP while doing damage rotation and keeping shield block up 80% +

 

I could handle Xavius and the add on me without a problem in EN as our block ability was effective there ( except stacking debuff) and at Eye boss on tentacles.

Fact is that I'm not an AFK auto-attack tank or lazy one, I try to top dps which increases my rage generation which increases my IP usage,  hence having 60% IP reduction on certain fights and almost 30% mitigation/stag. Good prot warriors know what I mean by this. 

 

Now I know what Sco meant by our nerf and how it affects us in Nighthold in a youtube clip.

If nothing will change till next week, most good warriors will swap on other tanks like druid or paladin to be able to handle mythic content in Nighthold. To be honest, I don't see how a warrior could survive mythic content :|, maybe with OP-pro healers which spam the hell out of him. Even the set bonus gives more block, more irrelevant stuff basically.

 

It feels bad, man.

What Sco meant has not much to do with our magical dmg issue. As i said in my post before, evtl. we have to overthink our stat-prio for nighthold. In mythic +, haste and mastery will still rock and our set-bonus will do as well. But yes, i absolutely agree...we won't see any prot warriors on world best progress guilds.

[KinderHell 3]

I've tested the versatility spec also on prot warrior. You can maximize 15-18% versatility which is half damage reduction.

You will have to sacrifice your haste as there aren't that many perfect items with max versatility and haste.

So you will sacrificy plenty for aprox 7%-9% damage reduction. You will have this 7-9% damage reduction but your IP will be under half than it is right now as mastery and haste matters.

This means there is nothing to overthink. Just go and tank Augur on heroic and let me know if you pop all ur cooldowns on ice phase :))

Edited January 20, 2017 by KinderHell

[Allseye 96]

Yeah, you will lose alot haste, but it doesnt matter if the fight is strongly magical based. 9% reduction is still alot, dont underestimate that and your IP should also be much higher. I dont know what u mean by "haste matters" for IP, can you give me a hint how it matters?

[KinderHell 3]

Haste matters a lot as it reduces cd on abilities ( so you keep shield block 80% + uptime )and faster autoattacks for devastator = more procs shield slam = more rage = more IP.

Devastator will give you more consistent rage to keep IP high throughout the fight.

Mastery matters at it increses your attack power which means your IP will give more absorb and damage abilities too, also more critical blocks chance which I guess are ok-ish for autoattacks.

The fact that you would like to keep 25-35% haste and keep high mastery 25-45% and also have 10%-15% versa is kinda hard, not enough stats to achieve that, nor items that are perfect matched to do that from raid. 

We should not be forced to sacrifice our haste and mastery for brute versatility reduction as its not ideal by design of the class.

In comparison to druids which go full versa/ mastery as first stat and haste as second for some items. Their benefit is huge, class is powerful and stats are improving that strength that they already have, making them crazy strong.  But warriors have to keep shield block up for autoatacks, and spam damage abilities to generate enough rage to do a combo of revenge-ip and have decent 30% haste to do that. Warriors also need mastery to increase their overall critical block, attack power as this is the class main stat, and on top of that they need a bit of crit to parry and after all of these versatility should be considered for aprox 5%-10%.

The only problem here is shield block and artifact skill are pointless as all Nighthold bosses except Tichondrius are have magical tanking rotation abilities and those that are physical cannot be blocked. This means our main mitigation design is not able to mitigiate what its needed.

Our main mitigation design is to keep shield block up for blocks 30% and critical blocks 60% of the incoming damage. Ignore pain is a filler that will go on top of that for additional damage reduction, not the main damage reduction. Shield block is like Ironfur of the druid, an additional physical damage reduction. Basically keeping 1 stack of irunfur up with give you the effect of shield block that normally blocks, and 2 stacks would compare to a critical block in a way. The only reason why druid and paladin can handle Nighthold is because druid can keep 1-2 ironfur up and also keep the 30% magic reduction buff up throughout the fight as it lasts 10 seconds, and paladin will have magical and physical reduction in one - moving over 50% and more than 50% uptime, while our shield block is fully irrelevant to tanking abilities from bosses.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by KinderHell

[Allseye 96]

Ok, now i'm really disappointed of your answer KinderHell. Don't get me wrong, i'm not attacking you now, but i think you don't got the issue what i was pointing at.

I asked of a reason, why you think we should consider haste in a strongly based magical fight (what we're facing of during nighthold), where shieldblock-uptime is not that helpfull as it usually is (because we can't block magical attacks). What you give as answer is basically everything about shieldblock-uptime and some (sorry to say that) bla bla about other tank mechanics. You're juste repeating what other (unexperienced) warriors are writing in other forums. I stated in my previous post, why in my opinion haste is not that necessary regarding rage-generation. When you're off-tanking, yes, haste is a good way to gain more rage...but i think our healer should be able to keep us alive while we're off-tanking.

 

9 hours ago, KinderHell said:

The fact that you would like to keep 25-35% haste and keep high mastery 25-45% and also have 10%-15% versa is kinda hard, not enough stats to achieve that, nor items that are perfect matched to do that from raid. 

We should not be forced to sacrifice our haste and mastery for brute versatility reduction as its not ideal by design of the class.

To your first Statement: I absolutely agree that you can't keep 3 states that high. My intention is to reduce haste and raise versatility while keeping mastery about the same level (around 38-42%). This will end in much stronger IP. We will still block autoattacks because having mastery on a "save" level, but shieldblock-uptime will decrease (what should not be a Problem because of unblockable attacks).

Now to your second statement: yes, it is a bit curious because our whole mechanics are built around shieldblock (even our artifact is). But i try to find a solution to support our healers in nighthold in the best way we prot-warriors can do. Even if i have to sacrifice my "class-mechanics"....if i can do a better job i will. The only question what we should discuss is:

Can we do a better job with sacrificing haste for versatility because of the high magical damage in nighthold?

[KinderHell 3]

It really depends on bosses and I'm not repeating anything from nobody. This is my take on the matter from my experience and from my tests done so far.  

The best way to handle heroic as warrior is as follows: ( try to use the best of your active mitigation skills and key is spell reflect at 25 sec on strong magic abilities/stacks)

Skorpyron - keep shield block up for autoattacks and try to have 2x full ignore pains for each Arcanoslash magical. ( you press one before the hit and one in the middle of those 3 hits, and add active mitigations in here)

Chronomatic - keep shield block up for autoattacks and spam IP all the time for Chronometric particle ( problem is that you IP will drop from autoattacks and will have less effect on the magical damage, add active mitigations in here when hp drops)

Trilliax - keep shield block up for autoattacks and try to stack rage to use IP before each Arcane slash and add active mitigations in here when hp drops or before debuff stacks land on you or off-tank.

SpellBlade - keep shield block up for autoattacks and try to pop CD for 2nd Annihilate and the Annihilate from off-tank when you have 2 stacks.

Tichondrius- keep shield block up for autoattacks and pop CDS if needed when tanking ads.

Krosus - keep shield block up for autoattacks, pop spell reflect after off-tank takes boss and you have your 5-6 stacks of Searing Brand dot. Also pop cooldowns on Slam or make sure you have rage pool for 2 IPS when soaking slam.

Botnist - keep shield block up for autoattacks and spam IP as good as you can -Flare.

Augur - Don't use shield block on this boss, only on last phase when you tank the add. Try to spam your cooldowns and IP through ice phase or even ask for externals. After p2 is gone you will be lower damage from abilities. Comet damage is low and if you have 2-3 groups to move to so you can soak the dot, then you will be ok.

Elisande - keep shield block up for autoattacks  and pop a spell reflect on each swap of Ablation - use active mitigations when you feel your taking high damage.

Guldan - keep shield block up for autoattacks and pop spell reflect on each Fel Scythe hit - Try to use demo too incase you get hit a 2nd time. Break the root with action button, Last stand + IP, Shield Wall + IP, Spell Refelct + IP.

 

The problem is that IP will give you 800k to a 1600k max absorb shield. To mitigate magical abilities you will have to keep your rage and use IP only when the bosses are casting that magical ability that will rekt you and adding a active mitigations to it.

If you keep spaming IP you will not have rage before that ability to pop 1-2 IPs because your IP will drop from 1-2 autoattacks really fast.

I've told you how to do heroic. My problem is mythic content and I don't see how we could survive there in this play style.

If  you swap for a versatility build, I think the gain from that doesn't outweight the damage from auto-attacks. You will reduce 7% damage,  but you will take 30-40% of time not blocked auto-attacks. Basically having  30% and crit blocks 60% for two thirds of the fight as auto-attacks mitigated VS 7% entire fight and magical included.

Our stat weight is a problem as we need 30% haste, we need very high mastery as this is the main stat for our class and we also need high versatility. Take in mind that versatility score is not like other stats, you will need loads of versatility to get to 14% in order to reduce 7% damage.

 

Problems with warriors can be solved if they change shield block to take all physical damage ( spears, slams, slashes, etc) and to change IP to take a percentage only magical damage do it doesn't drop from autoattack and when you get magical basically you don't have IP up or can't keep up with IP vs the damage you take like in Augur. Our shield block is the main defensive ability of warriors and IP is the filler like on all other classes. We won't be able to use only filler to survive as this is not our class design.

( 3.3 million and one IP is 800k, and on mythic is 4.5 million and IP the same - you're not even close to keeping up with this boss without spamming active mitigations 10 sec into the fight :)) )

I hope the above helped someone a bit :| If someone has ideas on how we should change our stat weight or play style, please reply :D

 

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by KinderHell

[KinderHell 3]

Also,

Pick Anger Management and try to equip legendary neck and legendary ring to reduce shield wall.

This way you can keep active mitigations more frequent up and this will help warriors out.

You will have to keep 30% haste and as low crit as possible, and go for high mastery ( to get 55%-65% crit block with 2 set ) and 5%-10% versa.

I'm not sure how you would handle mythic content yet, but this would help you for heroic.

For most bosses try to time your active abilities for magical spells and for Augur try to maybe get a higher hp pool with stamina trinkets and indomitable so healers have time to heal you, or tell them to spam on main tank, but also rotate your active mitigation cooldowns in this phase as the next one will be more relaxed.

Keep in mind that in doing this you will reduce your shield block uptime from what is is right now 80-90% to about 60-65%. This means that a third of the fight you will not have shield block up, and you will not critical block. Also consider that with 2 set bonus you will receive 20% more crit block chance while shield block is up. Basically crit block chance 30%-50% + 20% while shield  block active seems strong.

I've done few tries with ring legendary and anger management and I can reduce shield wall to around 1 minute 10 seconds with anger management in effect as well.

Anger management will reduce last stand to about 2 min, demo to about 50 sec.

I believe that our base 25-30% block chance + 65% uptime on shield block with 2 set item and using artifact skill while shield block is on CD will help warriors. The use of anger management will lower cooldowns of active mitigations and you will pop them throughout the fight as good as possible for magical stacks/abilities or when you take heavy damage. I aim to pick devastator talent as it generates more rage and porcs more shield slams which also is more rage and lower cd from legendary ring in comparison to indomitable.

Also keep in mind that your dps will be lower as you can't equip legendary gloves, nor 30% damage from shield slam talent. ( I found that in my case I'm going for 100k dps less for single target )

I'll keep ppl posted with any news that I find.

Edited January 22, 2017 by KinderHell

[Mickeyjay 0]

Reading through what kinder has said i see a nasty similarity in what I've been seeing as well and i think his main point is correct.  The roles of main mitigation and filler have been reversed, and whether talents have made blizzard try to balance this way or more likely design of encounters made to try make some of the other weaker tanks have stronger arsenals to balance, its basically crippled our effectiveness when being hit by major damaging abilities.

I agree they need to give back the importance of shield block, it would be better if shield block works on all forms of abilities but just reduced its power in general.  I think that would make a healthier balance, and if they rip up about class lore and a shield on a warrior shouldn't be reducing magical damage, i think throwing spell reflect back as an argument should allow them to increase the versatility of what shield block can do as default in the game. 

Basically what I'm saying is make shield block do more things, cut it down to be weaker than live to balance around that, and put IP back where it should be, a weaker non gcd filler that's used a lot but as a sponge for excess water (damage :)  )

[Proximity 0]

Now that anger management now reduce the cooldown of demoralizing shout, try it with devastator, booming voice with legendary belt. Feels like heaven in NH. Really.

Shield wall ring also does the job. I personally keep the gloves for pretty much any content, but I might try it out once mine is 940.

Besides, check it out in Mythic + dungeon. We're shining my friends.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Proximity

[Allseye 96]

I can not confirm that it feels like "heaven". We still take a fucking lot of dmg if we can't mitigate attacks by our shieldblock.

Anger management is absolutely the talent we have to choice in NH because we don't need shieldblock uptime that much. In way of survivability i really doubt that booming voice is a good choice. Vengeance is that what we should choice in case of survivability, even if we run with the legendary belt. With practically every dodge/parry we save 35% of our IP-costs. I don't do math now, but i think i got more then 3 parry/dodge during CD of demo shout (as long i'm not offtanking). BV is a great DPS-burst option for Mythic+ or if we need to cleave down adds as fast as possible.

I don't know how you're measuring "the shining". If you do by DPS, yes it shines alot. Run additional with avatar and you're glowing like a sun ;-). Beside that, this specc won't be very helpfull in progression in NH.

[KinderHell 3]

Currently I swap between 3 specs in a way.

SPEC 1 : Physical DEF (not so hard magical and proper active mitigation usage will let you handle almost all boses with this spec + maybe ask for external)

Devastator / Vengence / Heavy repercussions + legendary neck or gloves and wrists + 4 set items ( helm, shoulders, gloves or cloak, legs ) at the moment.

As trinkets I use animated and dark moon and my stats are 16% crit / 29% haste / 41% mastery/ 3% versa. ( 5 million HP + 830k from neck )

SPEC 2 : Magical DEF

Indomitable / Vengece / Heavy Repercussions  ( for damage ) or Anger Management (for max defensive) + legendary neck and wrists + 2/4 set.  As trinkets I use animated and Parjesh's to up the hp pool and can go with stamina flask instead of strength and my stats are 14% crit / 25% haste / 49% mastery / 3% versa. ( 7 million hp + 1 million from neck)

SPEC 3 : DPS

Devastator / Vengence / Heavy repercussions + legendary neck or wrists and gloves.

As trinkets I use urn and eye ( but odyn or other dps trinket would work as long as it has str base and some damage or stat second ) and my stats are 14% crit / 25% haste / 51% mastery / 4% versa. ( 4.7 million HP + 735k from neck )

You could lower mastery to 40-45% and up your haste to 30% and maybe crit 15-17% aprox which will probably be good for dps fanatic :P

 

These are my results for now and I spend most time in SPEC 1 for almost all bosses.

Edited February 14, 2017 by KinderHell

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/5/2017 at 9:22 PM, KinderHell said:

These are my results for now and I spend most time in SPEC 1 for almost all bosses.

The first spec just kind of feels like "If it's working, why change it?" most of the time. It's a great all-rounder.

[Larssen 7]

The sledgehammer nerfs to IP and Vengeance that eventually seemed minor during Emerald Nightmare are really hurting Prot warriors now during Nighthold. One simple solution is to make the woefully unpopular Never Surrender talent baseline, which would also serve as a minor but much needed buff to IP, since the latter scales so poorly now. In its place, Blizzard could add a Spellbreaker talent that allows Shield Block to reduce magic damage by 10%, or even 5%, much the way paladins can passively block spells with their Holy Shield talent. The cost of Shield Block could even be increased by a small margin to compensate. While this isn't a perfect solution, it's easy to implement, and would get the job done without breaking the core mechanics of the class.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Larssen

[KinderHell 3]

Yo,

As a last reply.

I decided to follow the below specs / builds:

1- I use this for full damage spec

Gear: 12-15%  crit , 28-35% haste, 30-35% mastery, 9-10% versa

Trinkets: Memento of Angerboda(890+sock) and Might of Krosus(925) (also,AHR seems bis for ST)

Talents: 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 1 (0)

Legendary: Hands, Belt ( Belt will provide a cooldown reduction of 30 seconds for Demo, hence making it available at 1 min - having 1 single target hit, for mutliple targets you will reduce a lot more )

Great for Nighthold, great for dungeons + if you want to do 650k+ and even pulling over 1 million in some dungeons.

 

2- I use this for damage and heal spec

Gear and Talents same.

Trinkets: Same as 1.

Legendary: Wrists, Belt

Great for Nighthold, great for harder affix dungeons when you would like to help the healer in healing yourself for about 150-240k hps total dungeon.

 

3- Full tanking spec

Gear: 10% crit, 30-32% haste, 30-35% mastery, 10-18% versa

Trinkets: Darkmoon Deck : Immortality and Animated Exoskeleton or Infernal Contract or Shivermaw's Jaw

(darkmoon gives a decent amount of armor, and the second trinket is up to you, if you want a bit of hp and a small mitigation from the trinket, then go with exoskeleton, if you want a stagger effect mitigation go with Infernal, as Jaw is kinda hard to get, as well as other cool dungeon trinkets which you kinda want to be 890+, and you're looking for STR and cool effect ( haste or versa or some kind of reduction but test their effect )

Legendary: Wrists and Neck for best mitigation, but you can swap Neck with Hands or Belt ( with belt use Booming Voice ) or Archimode or The Wall ( with ring use Anger Management to lower Shield Wall as much as possible ) or even with Destiny Driver if you keep using intervine on the other tank to apply shield on both of you.

*For Star Augur you would like to swap Darkmoon Deck of something else as that boss is doing only magical.

*For Krosus I believe legendary belt will lower demo cooldown to be on for each slam, spell reflect after you have taken the dot stacks and swaped the boss. Would use Darkmoon and Exoskeleton or Infernal.

*For Guldan try to stack your rage full before you get bond and use 2 IPs + spell reflect (50%) and you could probably take all bonds, pop a major cd (last stand / shield wall ) if you are not full hp before taking the bond. Same for reset of energy, make rage for 2 IPs and then move over the other tank at 30-40 energy. Would use Darkmoon and Exkosekelton or Infernal.

Talents: 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 , 1(0)

Here you can change Devastator to Indomitable if mechanics overtake your hp pool.

Also, you can take Anger Management over Heavy Repercussions in case you need faster cooldowns for certain mechanics only.

Keep in mind that Anger Management will down your Shield Block uptime from 80%+ to around 50-65%.

 

*Regarding certain tallents :

-Avatar should be picked on burst, aoe pulls in dungeons that occur at around 1.5 min.

-Best Served Cold I believe is tricky, most of the times in dungeons, Revenge is around 20-25% of total damage done. This talent will add 25% more to that in case you keep hitting at least 5 targets. Lets consider that you hit 5 targets all the time, that will be a max of 31% of total damage. Basically 6% more relative to the total damage, while Renewed Fury gives 10% to all damage as long as you have IP up, which you should have for more than 80% if you have a tracker. So I believe it is up to Avatar in case you time the big pulls at 1.5 min like a pro for certain dungeons, otherwise Renewed Fury is best. 

-Into the Fray I believe is tricky, even if you keep 5 enemies you will get 15% haste. But if you are using Booming Voice and you have the lengedary belt, then the 25% damage will do a lot more. ( one Thunder Clap of 5 enemies will lower cooldown with 15 sec, this means that in 4 Thunder Claps you will use Demo again to trigger Booming Voice - buff uptime 12 sec and using it at 20 sec is a lot stronger than 15% haste )

-Vengeance I believe is good if you don't have the legendary belt.

 

*For the Artifact Mage Tower Quest I used Build 2 - Kruul

Phase 1 - I went for 2-3 stacks and when debuff was off, moved back on boss then killed ads - cleave, used spell reflect as much as I could, healed myself as much as I could.

Phase 2 - Had to keep Shield Block up for constant annihilations, and had to use Spell Reflect for the healing debuff that Kruul wants to apply on you. From that point pop BL, pot, used major CDS for 2nd, 3rd annihilation and kept moving from smash and keep taking light circles and cc.

Recently with proper usage of thunder clap and legendary belt, the use of anger management will give you a better damage output (Battle Cry and Demo up), and also a better survivability bonus as having mitigation cds more often, good for raid, great for mythic + . Keep in mind that you will need Booming Voice also !

Hope this will be of help to some warriors.

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by KinderHell

[Allseye 96]

Good work KinderHell, i like it :-).

I prefer to run with Claw of the Crystalline Scorpid rather than Might of Krosus. As far as i saw in my logs, it gives more dps even in single-target fights. Another difference is my states-weight, in a full tank spec i don't sacrafice my mastery or versatility for that much haste. I feel very comfortable with 22-25% haste. I haven't tested the rage-gain difference with devestator, but i dont feel constrained to use more than 25% haste. This also counts for shieldblock-uptime :-)