Arcane explosion - breakpoint from 2 mobs?

[Elementios 0]

Hi All,

In the arcane mage guide it says: “Cast Arcane Explosion if you will hit 3 or more targets.”  Yet I find think the breakpoint is in fact from 2 mobs.

 

By my calculations

ABlast = 192% (+6% for weapon talent) of SP in 2.25s = 92.7% spell power /s
AE = 75% (+ 9% for weapon talent) of SP in 1.5s (since it's instant) = 54.4% of spell power / s.  Double that for 2 targets and you're at 108.7% SP/s >  92.7% spell power /s for ABlast

 

Both are equally affected by arcane charges and both have the same mana / s (2% mana for AE in 1.5s vs. 3% mana for ABlast in 2.25s).  Also in the conserve phase you’re doing 4 AC arcane barrage more frequently as you build through stacks quicker, which is great since ABarr hit's hard.   Finally those lucky kilt owners will mana up faster.  So lots of reasons to switch to AE from 2 mobs, assuming you can get in range.

 

So unless someone sees a flaw in this I think the guide needs to be amending

Edited January 24, 2017 by Elementios

[Lily 23]

Welcome Elementios :)

I understand your thoughts about this topic, but I don't really see what you're calculating (I am close to exams so maybe I got some knots in my head :D)

AB:

192% + 6% = 198% in 2.2sec, so it's 198%/2.2sec = 90% SP per second.

AE:

75% + 9% = 84% * 2 = 168% in 1.5sec, so it's 168%/1.5sec = 112% SP per second.

Therefore the margin is even bigger than you calculated. But you're missing the affect of haste on AB.

With 14% haste you're at ~1.9sec casttime which leads to 198%/1.9sec = 104% SP per second.

 

On 1/23/2017 at 0:45 PM, Elementios said:

Also in the conserve phase you’re doing 4 AC arcane barrage more frequently as you build through stacks quicker, which is great since ABarr hit's hard.

I haven't played on 7.1.5 yet, but I believe the times of casting 4 AC barrages are gone. If you got a really high mastery value, you can afford more, without losing a lot of mana.

 

So this said I think the margin isn't worth of going melee on 2 targets, but it could depend on the situation :)

[Elementios 0]

** Sorry posted response twice in error and can't delete this.  If someone can get rid of this then please do**

Edited January 24, 2017 by Elementios

[Elementios 0]

Hi Lily,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

First off I disagree that haste narrows the gap between these 2, since haste reduces the GCD of Arcane explosion, in the same proportion that it reduces the cast time of Arcane blast, hence the gap remains consistent regardless of levels of haste.  (Unless above haste cap?  GCD hitting 1s?)

 

On the core math's maybe it’s my notation was a little unclear, plus it seems I have some rounding errors.  Also the changes due to weapon talents are multiplicative, not additive as you have put in your post.   So to state my maths more clearly and hopefully without error this time…

• Arcane blast = 192% SP *1.06 (weapon talent) = 203.52%.  Divided by 2.25s = 90.45% /s
• Arcane Explosion = 75% SP * 1.09 (weapon talent) = 81.75%.  Divided by 1.5s (instant cast GCD) = 54.5%/s.  So for 2 targets = 109% /s

 

This actually puts the AE 20% ahead of ABlast, when there are 2 targets up.   I’m pretty sure most DPSers offered a 20% boost to DPS would take that in a heartbeat. 

Edited January 24, 2017 by Elementios

[1ordTakeo 1]

Wasn't there a reduction in damage once a spell hits more than one enemy, like kegsmash at the tank monk?

I am unsure if every spell is affected by this, but it is worth looking into?

[Ashiraya 3]

That only affects some spells, like Breath of Sindragosa, or against a very large number of targets.

[Lily 23]

23 hours ago, Elementios said:

This actually puts the AE 20% ahead of ABlast, when there are 2 targets up.   I’m pretty sure most DPSers offered a 20% boost to DPS would take that in a heartbeat

Seems like I really made some mistakes :D

Yes, you're right, that a 20% DPS increase is a major change and not a minor :) So you should post it as a comment in the guide-feedback to make sure it will be considered :)

[Skunksy 0]

What about the double proc chance for arcane missle with AB ??

[Lily 23]

On 2/3/2017 at 11:22 AM, Skunksy said:

What about the double proc chance for arcane missle with AB ??

If you hit 2 targets with AE you've got the same chance, right?