The Fallen Protectors

[Stoove 347]

Sometimes it frustrates me when we share threads for Normal and Heroic discussions and fail to consistently distinguish between the two. Not pointing any fingers (and I know Zagam is always talking about Heroic anyway), but it's confusing when people don't specifically state which mode they're talking about. This thread is for all difficulties, so it's probably a good idea.

[Guest Fruitdealer]

There are 2 suggestions you guys post for heroic mode which leads me to either of the following 2 conclusions.

 

1. The 2 suggestions are ONLY viable in 10 man

2. You guys didn't actually do the fight before writing the guild

 

Suggestion 1: Push both He and Sun in to DM at the same time

Why it won't work: The DPS check for Sun's DM phase is super tight because rook keeps using Clash during this DM phase (not sure if intended). In 25 man being stacked in the bubble during a clash is instadeath. You either need to tell your raid to run out of the bubble and pop heavy CD's or you need to push Sun in to DM after a clash and finish it before the next clash.

 

Suggestion 2: Put the Mark in He's DM phase on the Tank

Why it won't work: The Tank will die. The only reasonable solution we found for this is establishing a rotation between players with immunities such as Ice-Block, CoS and Bubble (BoP doesn't work, neither does Evasion)

 

[Shine 144]

Suggestion 2: Put the Mark in He's DM phase on the Tank

Why it won't work: The Tank will die. The only reasonable solution we found for this is establishing a rotation between players with immunities such as Ice-Block, CoS and Bubble (BoP doesn't work, neither does Evasion)

 

I have to disagree with this part, I am a DK tank, and my counterpart is a Monk. We always try to keep switching the mark back and forth between the two of us (this is 10m Normal btw). Lately we're trying to get the achievement and therefore we are using more players, but if we want a sure kill, we keep him alternating between the two of us whilst being at maximum range. this works fine for us.

[Guest Tim Fennis]

I have to disagree with this part, I am a DK tank, and my counterpart is a Monk. We always try to keep switching the mark back and forth between the two of us (this is 10m Normal btw). Lately we're trying to get the achievement and therefore we are using more players, but if we want a sure kill, we keep him alternating between the two of us whilst being at maximum range. this works fine for us.

 

Mate did you even read my post. I was talking about 25 man heroic.

[Guest Fruitdealer]

Alright I have to eat my words on one thing I've mentioned earlier. I stated that it was impossible to push both sun and he in to DM at the same time because of clash. But clash can easily be avoided if rook is tanked far outside the raid during DM. Still not sure if it's a good idea to push both of them at the same time but I've heard it's pretty viable.

 

This post is about 25 man heroic mode.

[Karsteck 5]

Passing Mark of Anguish to tanks: some tank classes are more dependent on high armour than others.  e.g. Guardians have very high armour, so their overall dmg reduction vs. physical damage is more affected the an armour debuff than tanks that have other kinds of DR.  The lower your character sheet armour is, the less you're affected by sunders.  So e.g. monk and DK are probably the least affected.

 

 esp. on normal10, if you got to SoO with good ToT gear, a DK won't be getting hit hard relative to their blood shields.  So getting hit somewhat harder means you'll maybe start needing a bit of healing, but still not much compared to all the raid damage.

 

 Healing needed on a DK tank is zero up to a pretty high damage intake, unlike other tanks where their active mitigation just scales down incoming damage.  Bear frenzied regen instead of savage defense can self-heal instead of mitigate vs. low dmg bosses, but esp. warrior has weak absorbs as an alternative to shield block mitigation.

 

 So my theory is that people saying they had no problem passing Mark to tanks is that their tanks outgear the dmg (not hard to do esp. on normal10), so their healing requirements are not really noticeable compared to the raid damage.

 

 While I'm talking about it, in case it wasn't obvious, most of the damage from Mark of Anguish is the shadow dot, not the melee swings from the add, after you've had it for a few seconds for the shadow dot part to ramp up.  This being the case, the main reason passing it to tanks works for people is that they DR and active mitigation that works against magic, and big health pools.  It's also simplicity of strategy.  Passing the debuff more frequently to DPS should work just as well (as far as surviving the DM phase, and better afterwards), but requires more communication and decision making from the raid.

 

 I may have more thoughts after attempting 10H, hopefully tonight if we get immerseus. :D

[Karsteck 5]

So passing the armor debuff to He's tank might not be a bad idea after all.  He doesn't do as much damage as Rook, and some of it is poisons.  (not much, though, esp. on a high-avoidance tank).

 

 Dodging the melee swings of the Embodied Anguish doesn't prevent gaining stacks of shadow weakness, despite what you might think after reading the dungeon journal :/

 

 We passed it to whoever had good defensives ready, e.g. our rogue, lock, ele shaman, and DPS DK.  If you have a spriest, they can disperse at high stacks and pass it right before dispersion expires.  Rogue talented feint is still a 30% defensive CD, and cloak was preventing the ticks from landing, even if it doesn't clear shadow weakness.  WoL shows he had 2 immuned ticks, and 4 missed ticks.  We eventually passed it to our bear tanking He.  Should have done that sooner if we were going to at all, since he could pop shieldwall for that, probably.

 

 We found the positioning suggested by Xidus solved our problems with Rook clashing into the group during Sun's desperate measures.

 

 We killed it this week after 11 attempts, then killed H norushen as well.  3 new hardmodes in one week, rawr.

 

 We 3 healed, and killed it 3 seconds after the enrage, right after both tanks were gibbed.  (our disc priest did quite a lot of smiting)

Edited November 10, 2013 by Karsteck