9th INNING WARLOCK CHANGES

[Strife 6]

I'm fully aware *when* this was said.  I'm saying that they are concerned about our DPS.  It was only a week ago.  Now that the hotfix is live they're eyeballing it even closer.  I'm not stating as fact that nerfs are incoming, but I see it highly likely that it will happen again.

 

Focus less on when it was said (which wasn't that long ago), and more on what they're paying attention to and what our current damage is (it's high).

 

To be fair, demo damage was insane all of ToT and nothing ever happened, and I'm pretty sure they are paying attention to all classes most of the time, other classes got nerfs and buffs last week as well. I was focusing on what was said because generally when someone says watch out there could be more nerfs and then links tweets, it's because of something that was recently referenced in a tweet. So I wanted to clarify that nothing in those tweets referenced further nerfs and the original 8 day old tweet already had nerfs resulting from that tweet, it's not like it's a tweet that happened today that said "oh no, we need to nerf Warlock way more, they are still doing too much damage". From my standpoint I see a GC tweet about nerfs, nerfs happening in a hotfix, then GC actually defending Aff saying they already got nerfed in the hotfix. Now they very well could rebuff demo, nerf aff more, etc. in further hotfixes, but this has been talked about the past week since the hotfix and isn't exactly breaking news. Not sure how you can say don't focus on when it was said when nerfs already resulted after that comment.

 

Just saying, that's my viewpoint from the exchange and timeline, I mean any class that is topping the charts should always be wary of nerfs, just like Fire Mage, BM, and Demo got nerfed from 5.3 -> 5.4.

 

Obviously right now Aff is so good on like half of the fights is because of all the adds for SS empowered dots and Shard regen. So it's going to be interesting what happens, because the Haunt nerf really didn't have as big of an impact to fights like Protectors/Dark Shaman/Nazgrim type fights, and single target we're not really OP. At this point our niche really is multi-target fights, and of course SoO has plenty of that. Not sure what they can really do without destroying our single target without a class rework, such as the case with what just happened to Demo.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Strife

[Omaric 246]

The only reason I linked the tweets was because it shows that they're actively looking at us.  This wasn't really brought up a lot last tier.  The fact that they've been constantly tweaking us since the last patch is a pretty good indication.  We can keep arguing about when tweets were said or the very relevance of them, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we're currently OP and Blizz is watching us now.  As an aside though, remember when they nerfed Doom and Corruption by 20% in ToT because Demo was destroying meters so hard they had to be downloaded again after each fight?

 

I don't want to be nerfed just as much as the next person, but let's be realistic.

[Strife 6]

Oh I definately agree on that front, but they did kind of nerf Demo and then just leave them be for the rest of ToT even though they remained incredibly strong.

 

I'm hoping that's what happens with SoO. We got our additional nerfs, as much as I hate going destro/aff instead of demo/aff  which was my favorite spec, at this point I'm kind of fine with it and hope they just leave us alone for a while ~_~

[Rakupenda 15]

Blizzard doesn't seem fond of carrying pieces from last tier through the next tier and possibly into the next expansion. "Who gives a rip about the Int stat if the Imps are the major source of the damage?" They probably foresaw this with its nearly-universal use through ToT. Thought they should nip it preemptively with getting rid of the Everlasting Affliction Glyph carrying 100% Crit Dooms out to 3 min for the gimmick. When that didn't work and people were still getting a large portion of their damage from imps by using UVLS to proc an army's worth, especially on multi-target fights like Guardians and Paragons, they nerfed UVLS and imps.

 

As they said in a Blue Post...Affliction got nerfed a bit, too.

[Kazistrasz 216]

The only reason I linked the tweets was because it shows that they're actively looking at us.  This wasn't really brought up a lot last tier.  The fact that they've been constantly tweaking us since the last patch is a pretty good indication.  We can keep arguing about when tweets were said or the very relevance of them, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we're currently OP and Blizz is watching us now.  As an aside though, remember when they nerfed Doom and Corruption by 20% in ToT because Demo was destroying meters so hard they had to be downloaded again after each fight?

 

I don't want to be nerfed just as much as the next person, but let's be realistic.

There's nothing wrong with me beating people with a 10 ilvl advantage over me that play non-warlock classes! That's totally realistic! If only...

[Zagam 1,982]

Anyone in here thinking we're not suspect to immediate and harsh nerfs hasn't been playing a Warlock long enough.  It's always a threat.  ALWAYS.

[Twinkielock 15]

Bet they change KJC again.

[Soulzar 42]

Blizzard doesn't seem fond of carrying pieces from last tier through the next tier and possibly into the next expansion. "Who gives a rip about the Int stat if the Imps are the major source of the damage?" They probably foresaw this with its nearly-universal use through ToT. Thought they should nip it preemptively with getting rid of the Everlasting Affliction Glyph carrying 100% Crit Dooms out to 3 min for the gimmick. When that didn't work and people were still getting a large portion of their damage from imps by using UVLS to proc an army's worth, especially on multi-target fights like Guardians and Paragons, they nerfed UVLS and imps.

 

As they said in a Blue Post...Affliction got nerfed a bit, too.

 

My beef is when they nuked the trinket.  Its reasonable for me to use last tier BIS trinket during first weeks of progression, it is not reasonable for last tier trinket to be BIS this whole tier over trinkets that beat it by 40 ilvls.  I am not saying I have a better solution in mind, but killing one of my two trinkets second week into this tier really ticks me off.    Trinkets were hard to come by for our 10 man last tier, and I have NOTHING as a backup to replace this with and am currently using Yulons Bite detro... 

 

At least blizz tossed us a bone and put Caster BIS trinket on the First Heroic Loot pinata of this tier....

[Rakupenda 15]

Bet they change KJC again.

To what?

[Twinkielock 15]

They bring back a

To what?

Only works with the current spells, must activate it, 2 min CD, with a 50% movement speed penalty.

[Omaric 246]

That won't happen.  They don't want a movement penalty attached to it as they've stated before.  *Nobody* would take that talent as you've shown it.

 

Unless you're kidding.  I hope you're kidding, because that......

[Rakupenda 15]

Why not add the cast penalty like the original to go with it to really kill it?

 

On a 2 min CD? And a 50% move penalty? People would feel like they "have" to take the Dark Soul then since KJC is more useless like that than it was.

 

Unuseable on most fights where you need it for movement because of the speed penalty. Can't chase Thok, will get nailed by Malkorok, can't outrun magnetic pull on Siegecrafter... Cooldown would also negatively affect these fights since you're moving enough to take it as is over the Dark Soul... it would be as if you didn't have it at all. 

 

You must need to take a nap or just trollin'.

[Strife 6]

KJC - just remove everything, including the description, and replace it with "Kil'Jaeden was so cunning his gift continues to remain a secret..."

 

Then let locks try and figure out what the trait really does but secretly Blizzard is just trolling us and made the trait do absolutely nothing, either positive or negative. Then people will spend hours testing it and coming it with crazy theories on what it does while all the devs laugh at us.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Strife

[Twinkielock 15]

That won't happen.  They don't want a movement penalty attached to it as they've stated before.  *Nobody* would take that talent as you've shown it.

 

Unless you're kidding.  I hope you're kidding, because that......

Yes I'm kidding. KJC has been through a massive roller coaster. I made it so bad I hope no one would believe me.

[JvChequer 43]

Remove KJC and gives to us a pumpkin to cut and draw.

[Omaric 246]

Remove KJC and gives to us a pumpkin to cut and draw.

 

Jc for World Emperor.

[Rakupenda 15]

Yes I'm kidding. KJC has been through a massive roller coaster. I made it so bad I hope no one would believe me.

Thank god...

 

Remove KJC and gives to us a pumpkin to cut and draw.

Something like this?

[Haegr 0]

What are your guys' thoughts on this? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1350333-New-SimCraft-version-is-out

 

There is a lot of talk there about how Destruction, with the changes in the hotfix, has begun to pull ahead of Affliction in single target scenarios, and apparently there is SImulationcraft math behind it. Could you guys assess the validity of this?  Did the aff nerfs and destro buffs change THAT much?

[Annoroth 5]

What are your guys' thoughts on this? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1350333-New-SimCraft-version-is-out

 

There is a lot of talk there about how Destruction, with the changes in the hotfix, has begun to pull ahead of Affliction in single target scenarios, and apparently there is SImulationcraft math behind it. Could you guys assess the validity of this?  Did the aff nerfs and destro buffs change THAT much?

 

Si, according to Gahhda (who does love his Destro), it's true. Unless anyone is able to prove him wrong, that mostly settles the matter.

 

Though on fights that were already Destro niches, it's really something to behold. 

[Lockybalboa 618]

What are your guys' thoughts on this? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1350333-New-SimCraft-version-is-out

 

There is a lot of talk there about how Destruction, with the changes in the hotfix, has begun to pull ahead of Affliction in single target scenarios, and apparently there is SImulationcraft math behind it. Could you guys assess the validity of this?  Did the aff nerfs and destro buffs change THAT much?

 

 

Six of one, half dozen of another. Destro and aff are about cleanly even right now for ST, the deciding factor between the two is mostly player/gear. 

 

Fights with a lot of low HP adds, destro will shine. Fights with a lot of high HP adds, Aff will shine. Fights with a low-mid HP target that needs to be burnt really fast, destro. Fight with a high HP add that will be there for >30 seconds, aff. 

 

Just depends on the fight, your skill, your gear, and the RNG gods.

 

Personally, I'll never play desto for a pure ST fight(LOL ya like when are we ever going to see a pure ST fight again). The need to be rooted in place is normally a DPS loss over aff. Sure, aff doesn't like movement. But it can handle it a lot better than Destro can. Every 10 seconds or so being forced to stand and cast a 3 second nuke, no thanks. Makes it even harder when you're trying to time it with major buffs for mad deeps. I'd much rather DoTDoTDoT and MG/SD that I can break at any time without caring much then try and stand and do a 3 second nuke with 3.2 seconds left on my BlackBlood stacks. To many things can do wrong in that situation.

[kuLi 11]

It seems that a nice ~10% agony nerf just arrived on live.

Hoorah...

[Zagam 1,982]

Thank god...

 

Something like this?

This game...it's so sad.  I used to play it all the time in high school.  When college came, Mario Party only came up in discussion after the bar where many alcohol-raged feuds began...

 

What are your guys' thoughts on this? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1350333-New-SimCraft-version-is-out

 

There is a lot of talk there about how Destruction, with the changes in the hotfix, has begun to pull ahead of Affliction in single target scenarios, and apparently there is SImulationcraft math behind it. Could you guys assess the validity of this?  Did the aff nerfs and destro buffs change THAT much?

It's been largely discussed a lot...Destruction is quite decent, but the fact it has a Haste ceiling makes it so scaling doesn't work as well as it does with Affliction.  Destruction is fine...but it feels a bit below Affliction on a pure single target push, mostly because of the reliance on KJC and still having to plant your feet for Chaos Bolt.  I perform better single target Aff than I do Destruction by a substantial amount with 10k Haste and 20k Mastery. 

 

Is Destruction fine?  Yep.  Is Affliction fine?  Yep.  Simcraft is fine to evaluate numbers, but you're far better off going and looking at REAL data.  So many people put stock in Simcraft when there are real logs out there that show the capacity of specs on fights.  Dig a while and you'll see specs are largely FIGHT DEPENDENT and there is no 'this spec is best' type answer.

 

Six of one, half dozen of another. Destro and aff are about cleanly even right now for ST, the deciding factor between the two is mostly player/gear. 

 

Fights with a lot of low HP adds, destro will shine. Fights with a lot of high HP adds, Aff will shine. Fights with a low-mid HP target that needs to be burnt really fast, destro. Fight with a high HP add that will be there for >30 seconds, aff. 

 

Just depends on the fight, your skill, your gear, and the RNG gods.

 

Personally, I'll never play desto for a pure ST fight(LOL ya like when are we ever going to see a pure ST fight again). The need to be rooted in place is normally a DPS loss over aff. Sure, aff doesn't like movement. But it can handle it a lot better than Destro can. Every 10 seconds or so being forced to stand and cast a 3 second nuke, no thanks. Makes it even harder when you're trying to time it with major buffs for mad deeps. I'd much rather DoTDoTDoT and MG/SD that I can break at any time without caring much then try and stand and do a 3 second nuke with 3.2 seconds left on my BlackBlood stacks. To many things can do wrong in that situation.

We 3 shot Heroic Iron Juggernaut last night....tried two pulls as Destruction.  Fuck casting Chaos Bolt with that stupid saw blade.  Went Affliction, gained 50k DPS, ranked #55, got H WF belt.  Planting your feet during lots of mini-movements is an awful time.  Let those DoTs tick.  For me, single target - Affliction.

 

It seems that a nice ~10% agony nerf just arrived on live.

Hoorah...

Got any proof?  Links or logs are typically good to put with a statement like this.  Rumors are not nice.

[Annoroth 5]

 

Got any proof?  Links or logs are typically good to put with a statement like this.  Rumors are not nice.

 

Not a log, but a quick pre-work training dummy test matches up with that statement. UA is overtaking Agony on Damage done.

 

Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/HnB118q.jpg

 

Edit: Due to lack of a raid buff, there is an effect where Agony isn't getting the extra tick. But even so, it's always overtaken UA for damage done. 

Edited October 2, 2013 by Annoroth

[Zagam 1,982]

There's no proof Agony got nerfed 10%.  On all of my Affliction parses last night, Agony beat UA damage.  That parse you posted has very little time spent.  UA always does the same damage while Agony scales up to 10 stacks.  If you don't do your rotation for a period of time, of course UA will be ahead of Agony.  Over time, Agony will beat UA every single time.

 

Heroic Dark Shaman wipes last night for proof: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jacehv8xqh73vvep/sum/damageDone/?enc=wipes&boss=71859

[Annoroth 5]

There's no proof Agony got nerfed 10%.  On all of my Affliction parses last night, Agony beat UA damage.  That parse you posted has very little time spent.  UA always does the same damage while Agony scales up to 10 stacks.  If you don't do your rotation for a period of time, of course UA will be ahead of Agony.  Over time, Agony will beat UA every single time.

 

Heroic Dark Shaman wipes last night for proof: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jacehv8xqh73vvep/sum/damageDone/?enc=wipes&boss=71859

 

 

Like I said before, those were very rough numbers, I'm definitely going to look more into this this evening. From what I understand about the rumor though, the hotfix was applied last night (unfortunately that's the problem with rumors, hard to verify anything). I can add though that from the simple "test" I ran, my maximum UA tick was 81k, compared to a maximum 10-stack tick of 71k. It could just be RNG combined with a bad test though.