Draught+shoulders

[MrEdren 114]

Disregarding sims for the time being, quick n' dirty - Draught+mantle still near-BIS given that you break stealth now?

Further, do you then try to vanishcast that instead of rupture?

Edited April 18, 2017 by MrEdren

[Carrn 284]

10 hours ago, MrEdren said:

Disregarding sims for the time being, quick n' dirty - Draught+mantle still near-BIS given that you break stealth now?

Further, do you then try to vanishcast that instead of rupture?

I would say probably Rupture out of Vanish then Draught. Since the bonus Crit lasts 6s, DoS will still crit all the time and you'll also get the bonus Rupture damage.

 

[killustrious 0]

In regards to your question about if you should still vanish to rupture with the shoulders i believe that is no longer the case.  Instead you want to do a 5 cp envenom as the guaranteed crit +50% damage will be 3.5 million+ damage which outweighs the extra rupture damage over its duration.

[Carrn 284]

17 hours ago, killustrious said:

In regards to your question about if you should still vanish to rupture with the shoulders i believe that is no longer the case.  Instead you want to do a 5 cp envenom as the guaranteed crit +50% damage will be 3.5 million+ damage which outweighs the extra rupture damage over its duration.

If you have 4pc + envenom relics

[MrEdren 114]

 

On 5/3/2017 at 3:00 PM, killustrious said:

In regards to your question about if you should still vanish to rupture with the shoulders i believe that is no longer the case.  Instead you want to do a 5 cp envenom as the guaranteed crit +50% damage will be 3.5 million+ damage which outweighs the extra rupture damage over its duration.

I've heard that, but it seems pretty conditional like Carrn said.  Near as I can tell, you need either 2x relics, a trinket proc on something like the Foci or a ~930 weapon ilvl for it to be a wash.  Although tbh I'm getting less and less sure that the shoulders are worth it over boots/bracers anyway.

Edited May 4, 2017 by MrEdren

[Pretzul 0]

I'm not sure of what wdps has to do with this considering envenom is only AP scaling.

[MrEdren 114]

12 hours ago, Pretzul said:

I'm not sure of what wdps has to do with this considering envenom is only AP scaling.

I appreciate you making an account just to point that out, but I think I'll be ok without your insight. 

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, MrEdren said:

I appreciate you making an account just to point that out, but I think I'll be ok without your insight. 

Now now, there's no need to be rude

[Carrn 284]

15 hours ago, MrEdren said:

 

I've heard that, but it seems pretty conditional like Carrn said.  Near as I can tell, you need either 2x relics, a trinket proc on something like the Foci or a ~930 weapon ilvl for it to be a wash.  Although tbh I'm getting less and less sure that the shoulders are worth it over boots/bracers anyway.

Shoulders / Boots are the way to go for sure. Especially with Old War pots, you can get some absolutely disgusting damage out of Envenom out of your opener if you Vanish to extend the Crit buff. No point in overwriting an almost full Rupture at that point, and with short kill times Envenom ends up being like 30% of damage you can deal.

3x MA relics to take advantage of the boots + CoF, and you're looking at 50% uptime on Vendetta too. It's actually pretty ludicrous 

[Carrn 284]

To clarify my thoughts on this, since I feel like I got confused earlier in what the subject was about and people may misunderstand what I was trying to say:

I don't like Draught as a rule, I think it's clunky and has  too many drawbacks to be worth using over Frond, which is just as good numbers wise. That said.

If you DO have DoS and want to use it, you're better off breaking Vanish with a Rupture then using the time remaining on the Crit buff to max the damage from DoS. 

When it becomes better to not break Vanish with Rupture, and to use Envenom instead, is when you have Lego Shoulders and don't use DoS - getting 4 Envenoms out with the guaranteed crits (starting from 5CP Env out of Vanish, the spam Mut > Env) will be more beneficial than buffing Rupture and having a couple of those hits crit. If you'd like to discuss this last point, please make a new thread so monkeys like me don't get confused